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G-III Charlie

Ouch! I don't want to speak for the staff, but I doubt a reload would be allowed. You should have been able to get miniaturization as your second tech from ToE. If you also got a non-optional second-tier tech as your free tech then it would be no worse than getting recycling for free. That should still keep you on track for a 820AD finish and the silver so far.
 
I don't expect a reload to be allowed either, no harm in asking though. I will play it out if I can't come up with anything better however this one is looking interesting: -

Spoiler :
cows642.jpg
 
Good gravy. that's a lot of cows.
 
that's a nice start. 8 different population pumps there, good lord. 3 settlers, 5 workers get s you 40 cities fast and gets them up to 12 pretty damn fast.
 
It's tough but the answer is no.

Just out of interest what would your finish date be?

Ok thanks for the answer, I expected as much. Finish date could have been 800ad (seems I was 1 turn premature in my estimates earlier)

I had to abandon the one with all the cows unfortunately, turned out I was located on a large teardrop shaped bit of land with only a single tile connecting it to the rest of the landmass, in order to get through that tile I had to wade through around 15 tiles of jungle, consequentially hut popping and contact making was appalling!
 
Let me ask some of you that play SS games. I wondered about the efficacy of tech trading for IA or Modern Age. I can see how you can get their techs for the Middle Age, IF you have gotten some of the optional techs like Republic/Monarch or Lit.

If you do not research any of the optional techs for the Middle Age and the AI will not have them at levels like Chief, how do you expect to get the techs they get for their free one?

I can see that if you could manage to trade for the first free one, you could then get others, but that is not a given it seems to me. Is there any way to give them techs from the new age?

IOW if Germany got Mono and you do trade for it and Ottoman gets Engineering and you get that, can you give those techs to someone else before they get their free one? I presume not.
 
no, all you can do is hope that they get all the first level ones. I've had situations where everyone gets fuedalism, which sucks. In the MA, on a map this big, it's likely that they will get everything, though, at least in the MA and IA - there are 4 required MT 1st level techs, so less likely that they'll get them all.
 
That is what I thought, but even if they do get what you need, you may not be able to get in a trade. Most likely it is not hard for the middle age, but the other ages could be a bugger.

I know I have gifted in the past and had no optional techs and they would not deal and even with say Lit they required a second tech like Monarchy.
 
You always have something to trade, your gold per turn. Use gpt to buy the first AI's tech, use that tech to buy the second AI's tech then sell the second AI's tech to the first AI to get your gpt back. If you can't get all your gpt back because of tech costs/monopolies etc then you can always sell your own free tech once you've left the inter-turn or as a last resort declare war on the AI you are giving your gold to.
 
yes, in the MA you generally need republic or monarchy to get techs. In the IA and MT it's trickier, because you have probably not picked up any optionals - in 20K games, you can get started with democracy, but in a game like this, you pretty much have to go GPT, most of which you can get back with YOUR free tech. You can't get it all back, ever, but you can get most of it.
 
I would be surprised if you could have enough cash to buy something like Nationalism, gpt or not. This is the problem I have when I read the reports. How did they manage to get any deal, without a tech to offer?

Even if you crank down the slider. Then if you do get a deal and are paying a fair chunk of your income, your research suffers. You cannot be sure to get a reciprocal gpt deal. Seems very iffy to me.

If you fail to make a deal you are dead for any serious effort. It would be better to research an optional tech to ensure a decent results, but of course no top date.
 
Deals can be a problem sometimes, vmxa. I still remember a much earlier gauntlet when my rep had been trashed. It was a Deity game so cash was flowing from the AIs. Even so, I still couldn't get the IA techs but I did get the Modern ones. Here's the report if you want to see the trade details.

Of course one thing in our favour for this game is that it's not Deity tech costs. This means that with a healthy rep, the lack of AI-AI contacts and the low unit counts of most rivals means that the trades are possible for the loss of just a few gpt once you claw the cash back with your own freebie.
 
Probably not going to have 29k at chief, probably not 9k. The AI will have pretty much no money, unless you give it to them. I don't doubt you could buy a tech, if you have enough cash, but that is the catch. The lower the level, the less the chance you have enough of it.

Modern techs, I would think are not as bad as say Feudalism or Nationalism. Those are tech they do not want to part with, unless it a real full value deal. Again, if you have techs to go with it, then no problem.
 
acutally, it's surprisingly easy to get most of your gpt back - remember, you are getting a free tech, too ;)

What I normally do is dump the slider way down, buy the first tech with gpt, buy the 2nd tech with 1st tech+gpt, sell 2nd tech back to first civ for most of the gpt, get my free tech and sell that back to the 2nd civ for gpt.

Also, if you give away republic at the beginning of the MA, by this time, several civs may well have some gpt to spare.

Is one reason why being non-scientific is a pain, cause you have to research something to get your gpt back.

btw - it is possible that, in a game like this, you will have a civ or two who do not have republic/monarchy going into the IA, so you can start with those.


btw, Tone - that was my very first gauntlet!! fond memories of being completely unable to do exactly this - it took me quite awhile to get used to tech trading in the IBT.:love:
 
For sure you can get your money back, that is not an issue. The issue is will you have enough in the first place? If you are running hard on research to try for an SGL, you are not going to have much money.

Again at low levels, you can give them Republic, but they will have done nothing when you are ready for the IA. Not researched one tech, not put together more than 60 gold. BTW I would not trade for their worker if it wanders in the capitol, they need all the help they can get.

I agree if someone does not have Republic when you get to the IA, you are golden. It is if you arrive with no optional techs to deal, you have the problem. It is the IA that I would view as the real opportunity to get boxed and not get any first tier techs from them.
 
true, but then, you'll be making 200 gpt that you can use to trade for the IA techs. I've never had it be an issue. Just dump the slider to 100% tax while in the big picture, make trades, get your gpt back and jump the slider up to full bore!! By this time, there is a reasonable chance that you actually have some gold stored up, too - not a lot, but some - to cover the deficit. I wouldnt' trade away gold, btw - only gpt. The AI uses gold that you give them to upgrade spears to rifles and that's a very bad use of gold
 
Probably not going to have 29k at chief, probably not 9k. The AI will have pretty much no money, unless you give it to them. I don't doubt you could buy a tech, if you have enough cash, but that is the catch. The lower the level, the less the chance you have enough of it.
I agree that you won't have the cash but there are other factors in your favour.

For the MA techs, they are unlikely to have contacts and you'll have Republic so getting Feudalism is quite managable. If they won't trade is as a one for one swap, which they should do if more than one rival gets it, then you can trade first for another of the first tier techs. Their lack of contacts will mean that you will still have monopolies on these techs if you trade wisely.

For the IA, I don't want to trade for Nationalism in the interturn (as this opens up several more optionals for my freebie) so that is not an issue. (I know that I could get it with gpt if it not a monopoly though.:D) The other techs can be quite expensive but you can end up with several civs with each of the techs so you are not buying them at monopoly prices. I found this trade easier than the Modern Times one because in my game three of the four MT techs were monopolies. With this level, it is also quite easy to keep a few civs in the AA and use them at a later date.

Also remember (as I said before) that the costs are on Warlord level. Pushing your own slider down to zero and switching scientists to taxmen if necessary will net you the same amount of cash as you would get at any level though. I had enough funds to get all the techs without switching my scientists.

Would it help if I posted a save or two for you to try it out?
 
I've submitted a 780AD launch using the same settings as Chamnix' game except adding France in as a rival. I'm running out of maps and may not have another submission for this. In fact, this game was a handrolled start on a river with one cow and a wheat and another cow and wheat nearby.

I popped an early settler six tiles east on a river early, but did not get an SGL for the Pyramids until philosophy in 2150BC. I drew a three-turn anarchy with only 4 towns, 5 workers, 8 scouts and 2 warriors. I set research to Monarchy and popped construction in 2070BC having only German, Ottoman, and Byzantine contacts plus France. Two civs got engineering and one got feudalism. I got engineering with Republic and feudalism with both and was very lucky to get invention as my free tech.

I shut research off rather than go for the expensive gunpowder, hoping to get monotheism from one of the other 4 scientific civs and start researching theology soon. One luxury was nearby and one other 15 tiles away. I could already see all 8 luxuries I would eventually get. I would need war happiness to allow growth and set about making the ai furious. I was unable to get any towns from the ai in this game and it seems to be pretty rare. I contacted Korea in 1830 and gifted them but they got feudalism.

The other three civs were across a one-tile land-bridge and took a while to contact. My warriors were disbanded and scouts that couldn't uncover more map were disbanded until only three crossed the land-bridge to look for more ai's and huts for gold. I contacted Persia and they got engineering.

By this time I was pretty disappointed and thought I might have to abandon the game. I went ahead and used gold to establish embassies, but no ai knew each other. I figured if one of the furious ai ever declared war, I might be able to get peace tied to an ma with another civ to keep a supply of war happpiness if needed. I should have saved my money instead for deficit research.

In 1450BC, I contacted Greece and happily, they got monotheism. I started research on theology right away and soon the Ottos demanded lit and I got my first dose of war happiness. I also declared war on Korea and re-negotiated peace for an alliance with France and later Germany against them. Korea destroyed a French town and was handled roughly by Germany, but sadly both civs honored their deals for the full 20 turns.

In 1225BC, I re-negotiated peace with the Byzantines for an alliance against the Ottos. They broke the deal in 1025BC giving me another dose of war-happiness. I lost a bit of happiness when two longbows died attacking two warriors on grassland. I then had to rush more regulars and take away from my development a bit to also hold off the few incoming Byz and Otto units.

I got theology in 1150BC and was three turns from education by 1000BC running science at 70%. I couln't grow past size six after losing a few units and only one lux. so I started settlers and workers to the furs in the north while still hoping for another dose of war happiness. Here's a screenshot of Russia with 20 towns, 60 citizens, 27 workers, 2 settlers and one longbow.

LGWLRussia1000BC.jpg


I was hoping for a GA with MoM and Colossus by 610BC with gunpowder and banking done and 2-turns of Astro done for 4-turn research the rest of the way and potential 720AD launch which would be my best launch date. Unbelievably, at least to me, I was beaten to the MoM by Korea in 800BC. I switched Moscow to Sun-Tzu's as a Cope's pre-build.

In 750BC, I completed gunpowder and got my second SGL. Instead of researching banking in 5-turns, I went straight for Astro and then on to ToG so that I could rush Cope's as soon as the Colossus completed in 610BC in Yekaterinburg and the FP in St. Pete's, boosting research nicely without a GA.

In 710BC, I connected my second lux, and started to grow as cities were now content at size 9. Astro took 7-turns, chemistry 6, pyhsics 5 and then I achieved 4-turn research on ToG in 390BC barely holding my treasury above water with a few tax-men in cities over size 9. I lost 50 shields swichting Sun-Tzu's to Newton's and kicked off my GA with comfortable 4-turn research at 50% on Banking in 290BC about to connect my third native lux and trade for a fourth. I needed these as I lost a couple steps on war happiness with a failed attack on a Byz source of horses and a razed town on their counter-attack.

I reached the IA in 50BC at war with 3 of 7 science civs. Two ai got steam and two got nationalism. I had gifted Sumeria up from the AA and was able to trade for steam power for 36gpt, Republic and Lit. I got nationalism straight up for steam and a bit of gold. I was extremely lucky in getting electricity as my free tech and was able to get replaceable parts in 4-turns at 80% science and positive gpt. At this point, I had 47 towns/cities, 245 citizens, 64 workers, 3 settlers, 1 horseman, 7 longbows, and two MI and more importantly a native source of coal my workers would connect in 3 turns in time for rep parts. I also had 3 native lux and was trading for a 4th with France. Here's a screen of my domestic advisor at the start of the IA with 7-turns of GA left.

IAdomesticadvisor50BC-3.jpg


Research was industrialization after replaceable parts, not forgetting to keep the science-slider up as the GA ended this time. I also got my last SGL which I used to rush Leonardo's. Corporation was next and it was time to end one of the wars as I connected my 4th native lux in 30BC, my 5th and 6th in 250AD, 7th in 260AD and 8th in 320AD. I signed peace with the Ottos and gifted them up again getting lucky as they got medecine as their free-tech.

There was a bit more war drama as France signed an alliance with the Byz against me temporarily causing riots throughout my empire. I quickly ended those wars leaving both with only 2 towns gaining a few towns for peace. The Ottos couldn't get enough and Dow'ed razing a town just as I got tanks. Another short war left them as a single town and it was then peace for the rest of the game as I was tired of dealing with disruptions. I built Sun-Tzu's during this time while continuing to expand and building up my military and worker forces. The ai provided chivalry, which along with Monarchy were the only techs they managed to get through the IA.

I was able to get atomic theory in 4-turns just after completing motorized transportation. Hoover's Dam was timed for completion on the turn I got electronics and then I completed flight in 580AD. Gifting all 7 ai this time, 3 got fission, two got computers, 1 got rocketry and one got ecology. The Byz were still in the MA when I gifted them and only two civs knew nationalism or chivalry. I was able to trade for fission straight up for nationalism and chivalry along with a few spare resources and then straight tech deals for the other three. ToE completed in Moscow which I knew would come first in the build order and I chose miniaturization and space flight as my free techs. The palace pre-build was switched to the Internet and I also got synthetic fibers as my free tech for the age change. I had uranium already connected and a source of aluminum was in the tundra only 3 tiles from my road network. At this point I had 129 cities/town, 784 citizens, 160 workers, 2 settlers, 40 tanks, and a handful of other units. Here's a screen of Russia just before the MA and a screen of the domestic advisor on the first turn of the MA.

Russia570AD.jpg


MAdomesticadvisor580AD.jpg


I continued to practice my micromanagement and specialist farm tactics ending with 182 cities/towns, 1319 citizens, 43 workers, 45 modern armor and assorted units making 2107bpt at 30% science and 1094gpt for a 780AD launch. Continued good luck to everyone.:)
 
I've just discovered that if you pop all required techs before you finish researching philosophy that you won't have Republic on the age change. As soon as research on philosophy finishes the big picture screen appears before you select your free tech. This means when you leave the big picture screen you will already have your age change free tech, before you get Republic. I would rather finish research and get Republic first before popping the final AA tech myself. In Chamnix' game, he did the right thing in trading everybody up before getting Republic.
 
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