G&K Modding Hopes and Desires

[Pazyryk]

Civ5 has such amazing potential for modding, with much of the internals accessible in a database (this was a huge step forward from Civ4 modding) and complete control of UI outside of the dll. However, modding has been more or less stunted by a few serious limitations. Here are my suggestions:

1. Improve 3D art creation. Adding unit art has only been mastered by a very small number of individuals (maybe six?). I know at least 10 and probably many more very sophisticated modders have attemped it without success, including active Civ4 3D artists. It involves the installation of specific outdated versions of several software programs and then a modder's (lemmy101's) add-on to Nexus. G&K developers should either devise a tool that works or come on to the forum and document their own work flow for adding 3D art.
2. Make all art assets accessible for modding. Some that can't currently be modded include improvements, resources and "font icons" (these: ).
3. More GameEvents (not so much UI Events) for better control of game function in Lua.
4. More XML tags. And fix some that don't work (but at least we can expect the religious one's to work now)
5. Better documentation of Lua functions (and modders are very willing to help here).
6. MP.
7. Free the dll at last!

I put dll last on my list because, well, it's my list so I can prioritize how I want. 2KGreg was hinting at its release ("still months away") before the G&K announcement. So I'm hopeful and I don't think my griping here will matter anyway.

The devs have been silent about modding and G&K so far. It's always going to be a low priority: only a small fraction of players ever play a mod, let alone make one. So I imagine that they are only now getting around to thinking about it (and only if everything else is on track) and don't want to make promises. But that small fraction of players is a very devoted lot, and I hope they get some love with G&K...

 

[Pouakai]

From my field in modding, I mainly want more XML tags. It helps new modders to get into it, and creates a sustainable community

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'll echo these sentiments, especially 3D art creation. I'm still astounded by the lack of selection this far in. Hopefully, that can change.

 

[Pazyryk]

From my field in modding, I mainly want more XML tags. It helps new modders to get into it, and creates a sustainable community

Added that to my list. Actually, if they improve the GameEvents a bit, a modder can add xml tags for almost anything with a little Lua coding (I wrote a tutorial on this). But I agree that the XML level of modding should be improved too.

I'll echo these sentiments, especially 3D art creation. I'm still astounded by the lack of selection this far in. Hopefully, that can change.

Yeah. I'm a big supporter and I try to be positive. But there is no doubt that the civ5 modding community is stunted relative to civ4, even if you are generous and take into account timeline of game release.

 

[turingmachine]

Also, allow mods in MP. This alone would increase the interest in mods considerably.

 

[Radu_Magus]

I just know Civ 4 has excellent mods, with tons of civs, and I haven't seen/heard any good one in Civ 5. I hope that changes.

 

[Pazyryk]

Also, allow mods in MP...

Oops! That's a pretty big one. Added...

I just know Civ 4 has excellent mods, with tons of civs, and I haven't seen/heard any good one in Civ 5. I hope that changes.

There are really some quite excellent ones. The number is small. And the genre is limited. But you should be quite happy if you like WWII...

 

[Radu_Magus]

There are really some quite excellent ones. The number is small. And the genre is limited. But you should be quite happy if you like WWII...

Not that much. I like mods with tons of new civs, more techs, units, etc. Know any?

 

[Pazyryk]

Not that much. I like mods with tons of new civs, more techs, units, etc. Know any?

This is why I have #1 as it is above. If you can't add new units (or if it is so hard as to be prohibitive), then that puts all kinds of mods off limits.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

My only modding hope is support for Hotseat/MP so I can make my hotseat games the way I want them to play

 

[SpyGuy77]

Also, allow mods in MP. This alone would increase the interest in mods considerably.

there is a mod for that LOL

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=458569

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

there is a mod for that LOL

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=458569

Don't you LOL, yes there is a mod, but it's a MOD that changes the game, it's not officially in the game. It's unstable and Firaxis/2k has can't help you out there since it's not by default in.

 

[jeffah3539]

I agree with all of your points, especially #1. I tried to get into unit art creation and it was just way, way too complicated. I think this is the biggest aspect holding back Civ V modding right now. Without new art all mods look the same and just don't give the impression of truly presenting something new. I know there are a few fantasy mods in development, including yours, but why bother if they are all going to look exactly like the base game?

Some other minor points:

1. I wish you could adjust the calendar in the worldbuilder like in Civ 4 without having to edit a game speed in XML or use a Lua function to get it to actually display properly. Something that was so simple in Civ 4 is now stupidly complex for new modders. On a related note, I wish maps were editable in Notepad rather than having to use the separate worldbuilder. It just feels unwieldy to me and it seems to add a lot of extra time to my map creation efforts having to constantly click through menus and popups rather than just copy/pasting text.

2. I wish the SDK was usable without a Steam connection. My internet went out for a couple days earlier this week on the days when I had free time to work on my mod but I couldn't because I couldn't connect to Steam. That was very frustrating. I hate DRM in general and this just annoyed me greatly. I couldn't play the game either so there would have been no way to test any changes even if I could get into the SDK. Kinda made me wish I had a pirated copy of the game on my hard drive that I could have used (which kinda seems to defeat the purpose of forcing DRM anyway).

 

[cfkane]

Honestly, it might be neat to have an in-game civ editor. You know, something along the lines of the character creation tools in most MMORPGs.

Most of it would be mix-and-match; Mongolia's color scheme with America's flag and Siam's city list with Englands UA, and so on. Leader figures would be harder to create, but again, using the model of an MMORPG character creation tool one could get a lot of mileage out of a system like that. Plus it would allow for an easy framework to download custom game pieces, like if a flag you want doesn't exist, you can download or make a custom one and put it in game.

If 2K really wants to court the modding crowd, then the in game modding tools should be VERY powerful.

 

[jeffah3539]

Honestly, it might be neat to have an in-game civ editor. You know, something along the lines of the character creation tools in most MMORPGs.

Most of it would be mix-and-match; Mongolia's color scheme with America's flag and Siam's city list with Englands UA, and so on. Leader figures would be harder to create, but again, using the model of an MMORPG character creation tool one could get a lot of mileage out of a system like that. Plus it would allow for an easy framework to download custom game pieces, like if a flag you want doesn't exist, you can download or make a custom one and put it in game.

If 2K really wants to court the modding crowd, then the in game modding tools should be VERY powerful.

I think this would be pretty neat, too. It won't be possible for G+K but maybe for Civ 6.

It seems to me like they are heading in that user-friendly direction but for Civ V they ended up in some kind of unfortunate middle ground. I think they envisioned the modding tools making modding more accessible but they didn't go far enough and it ended up making things more difficult. The modding tools, in my opinion, were just as unfinished as the game at release but, while they have devoted massive resources to patching the game to fix problems, they haven't devoted the same resources to fixing the broken modding tools.

 

[Gedemon]

Don't you LOL, yes there is a mod, but it's a MOD that changes the game, it's not officially in the game. It's unstable and Firaxis/2k has can't help you out there since it's not by default in.

Unstable ?

I've missed your bug report in the mod thread or do you mean that the game engine itself is unstable with any mod ?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think this would be pretty neat, too. It won't be possible for G+K but maybe for Civ 6.

It seems to me like they are heading in that user-friendly direction but for Civ V they ended up in some kind of unfortunate middle ground. I think they envisioned the modding tools making modding more accessible but they didn't go far enough and it ended up making things more difficult. The modding tools, in my opinion, were just as unfinished as the game at release but, while they have devoted massive resources to patching the game to fix problems, they haven't devoted the same resources to fixing the broken modding tools.

Why do you assume it won't be possible for God and Kings? Maybe not straight away, but it's possible, if 2k really focuses they can do it for Civ 5.

I mean, I remember there being an amazing Civiliopedia Editor for Civ 3 (while it was made by fans) it was still amazing because you didn't need to get into the deep txt files.

Unstable ?

I've missed your bug report in the mod thread or do you mean that the game engine itself is unstable with any mod ?

No, I mean that there should not be a mod that enabled mods in Hotseat/MP, it should be in vanilla/G&K by default, not requiring a fan-made mod, if you game screws up because of it (hypothetically speaking) then you can't ask Firaxis/2k for help, you rely on the person who made the mod. That's my point.

 

[jeffah3539]

Why do you assume it won't be possible for God and Kings? Maybe not straight away, but it's possible, if 2k really focuses they can do it for Civ 5.

I mean, I remember there being an amazing Civiliopedia Editor for Civ 3 (while it was made by fans) it was still amazing because you didn't need to get into the deep txt files.

An in-game 3D model editor seems like a pretty big project to create from scratch. It just seems more likely to me that it would be a major feature of a game from the very beginning rather than something tacked on in an expansion.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

An in-game 3D model editor seems like a pretty big project to create from scratch. It just seems more likely to me that it would be a major feature of a game from the very beginning rather than something tacked on in an expansion.

Well, Valve is making a simplified map editor for Portal 2, I'm sure if they reall want to Firaxis/2k can do a similiar thing.

 

[Pazyryk]

No, I mean that there should not be a mod that enabled mods in Hotseat/MP, it should be in vanilla/G&K by default, not requiring a fan-made mod, if you game screws up because of it (hypothetically speaking) then you can't ask Firaxis/2k for help, you rely on the person who made the mod. That's my point.

Of course, the point is to use a mod which invalidates the Firaxis/2k help anyway. (But sarcasm aside, I listed it because I agree that it should be base.)