G&K without GEM?!

[AlpsStranger]

I just installed G&K UP and it seems to have GEM. No offense, but I'm presently content with G&K and just wanted the UI changes. How can I simply have the UP without the changes to diplomacy, trade agreements, etc?

If I need to wait while you get GEM up and running I totally understand.

 

[Thalassicus]

Civup does not include gem; they are separate mods. Could you explain in more detail?

 

[AlpsStranger]

Civup does not include gem; they are separate mods. Did you get civup from the workshop or civfanatics?

I got it from the workshop and it seems to have "Alliances" and open borders gold. It also radically changes research agreements

It prompted me about a potential agreement and the diplomatic dialogue that followed didn't seem like vanilla G&K.

 

[Thalassicus]

I think you've found a tooltip bug (no changes to gameplay). I'll investigate it further.

"Ally" is just a more concise and realistic word to describe a "declaration of friendship," with the same meaning and gameplay effect.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I think you might have encountered a tooltip error (no changes to gameplay). I'll investigate it further.

Ally is just a shorter and more realistic word to describe a declaration of friendship.

Yeah. The RA tooltip described the GEM behavior I think. Flipping through the files it doesn't seem like it includes anything but the expected interface changes.

I'll keep the thing about Alliance in mind, thank you. So I assume that open borders don't provide extra gold in the standard UP then?

BTW: Turn times are taking about double with UP. I really love your mods, but I'm not sure I can use it until I get my I5 at this rate I realize there's probably not a good way to fix that since your mod does a lot of really fancy UI work.

 

[Thalassicus]

Civup makes no changes to gameplay, except to fix obvious bugs like:

• The missing mounted archer combat class.
• Railroads connect to the capital without the capital connecting to railroads, a paradox leading to mismatched railroad production bonuses between cities.
• etc...

 

[AlpsStranger]

Well, keep up the good work

Btw, what do you mean by "no mounted archer unit class?" I'm intrigued.

EDIT: Nm, clicked linky.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Trade networks connect to the capital, but the capital does not connect to the network, a paradox leading to mismatched railroad production bonuses between cities.

Is this just a more complete way of saying "no rail bonus in the capital" or some more obscure bug?

 

[Thalassicus]

Right, the capital is both connected and not connected to the rail network at the same time, an impossible situation.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Right, the capital is both connected and not connected to the rail network at the same time, an impossible situation.

How do you fix it? A free building or something?

 

[Thalassicus]

Yeah, a free building.

It worries that bugs and problems remain in the base game two years after solutions to those problems arrived. It might be pressure from the developers' bosses to create new content instead of perfecting old content. We've been in a recession for five years, and bringing in new customers helps pay the bills. The problem with a short-term approach like that is the base game is in bad shape for anyone not using significant mods. It gives people a poor impression of Civilization V, which is bad for business in the long run. While it lets this project continue to have a role, I'd much rather have a perfect base game than have to rely on mods. I'm concerned that a decreased emphasis on perfecting the base game might lead to declining sales for the Civilization series as a whole.

Civilization 2 was the first game I ever modded back in 1996. My passion for game design is even what led to my computer science major in college. I want Civilization to stick around for many years to come as the paragon of challenging strategy games, and to do that we must strengthen the base game. It's why I chose to enhance vanilla for my project, instead of creating an entirely new game like Fall from Heaven or Civ 5: Nights.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Yeah, a free building. I'm very puzzled how simple bugs remain unfixed after two years...

It is very strange. They'll do a lot of heavy lifting but leave certain little snags like that in place.

Of course, I blame us gamers. How many people's "FAVORITE GAME EVAH BRAH" has truly stupid bugs?

Master of Magic is buggy as hell, very likely to be a "FAVRIT YO!" Final Fantasy 6, another likely candidate for someone's best game ever, has a really bad bug. There are many other examples.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I'm concerned that a decreased emphasis on perfecting the base game might lead to declining sales for the Civilization series as a whole.

Civilization 3: Conquests has some really nasty unfixed bugs that will never be fixed IIRC. They really need to stop halfassing it.

 

[Thalassicus]

I've gradually come to realize they don't have a perfectionist on the team. There's lots of things no one else probably notices but a perfectionist, like the 4 different variable naming schemes in the lua code (disorganized code is harder to copy, which slows down development and costs the company money), or how none of the interface bars line up properly:

We may not consciously notice stuff like this at first, but our brain does see it, and messy details can add up to a negative impression about a product. I think it's one reason Blizzard is so successful. Their games may have cheesy grade-B dialogue (Diablo: welcome to my realm of terROR!) but the high quality unit balance of Starcraft is legen...wait for it...dary, and they have a fantastic art team. That perfect game balance is what I want for Civ 5.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I've gradually come to realize they don't have a perfectionist on the team. There's lots of things no one else probably notices but a perfectionist, like the 4 different variable naming schemes in the lua code (disorganized code is harder to copy, which slows down development and costs the company money), or how none of the interface bars line up properly:

We may not consciously notice stuff like this at first, but our brain does see it, and messy details can add up to a negative impression about a product. I think it's one reason Blizzard is so successful. Their games may have cheesy grade-B dialogue (Diablo: welcome to my realm of terROR!) but the high quality unit balance of Starcraft is legendary, and they have a fantastic art team. That perfect game balance is what I want for Civ 5.

You are a wonderful person.

Jokes aside, there are definitely signs of either rushing or just plain half-hearted work all over the game.