Fixed thanks.
G-Major 111
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
Fixed thanks.
1080AD. I'm impressed. I'm willing to know more about that game, Kaitzilla.
Sure, no problemo
Let's see, what did I do?
First, I picked out the settings for an ultra small pangea(High Seas/Solid Coast/Toroidal Wrap), and ran mapfinder looking for two gold overnight. Max opponents I think.
The next morning I looked through the list and picked out some likely candidates. Actually settled on a decent sized pangea(1140) instead of a truly micro sized one(700-800 tiles) because I wanted the legendary cities to have tons of forest chops after a few border pops.
The HOF start. There is actually Marble 1W of those pigs in the fog
Testing indicated that Monarch AI's didn't build a worker for the first 20-25 turns, so the first build was worker first. The warrior explored for a nearby AI, then looked for another, then another. The plan was to find a good tile that a worker was sure to show up at and wait there to pounce. The 2nd warrior built in Thebes after the worker would go to a previously scouted civ to try to steal a worker there too.
No barbs and especially Aggressive AI were crucial to getting 5 workers stolen by 2600AD. After stealing a worker, keeping the warrior within 2 tiles of an AI city allowed a cease fire to be signed within 4 turns usually.
T0-T30:
Spoiler :
Some forests got chopped to get the 2nd city out faster to settle some horses and get some forests for chopping. It had no real food except for plains cows and riverside grassland. Continued worker stealing kept America and Persia weak, so a war chariot rush easily captured Boston and Persepopolis around 2200BC. These became the other 2 Legendary Cities along with Thebes.
At Size 6, Thebes could produce 15
per turn which is just enough to produce a War Chariot every 3 turns on Epic Speed, so it built a barracks after producing a couple of no promo War Chariots and it was off to the races.
T31-T70:
At Size 6, Thebes could produce 15
per turn which is just enough to produce a War Chariot every 3 turns on Epic Speed, so it built a barracks after producing a couple of no promo War Chariots and it was off to the races.T31-T70:
Spoiler :
Next, Egypt Gandhi was captured for stone and Buddism, then New York deep in the south and Paris far to the east were captured by 1350BC to get a total of 8 rather good cities.
Oracle in 1700BC netted 230 fail gold thanks to marble and chopping it in another city before completion in Boston. Picked Currency. One or two AI had Priesthood and I was worried to wait any longer.
Couldn't actually trade techs for cash until 900BC because I waited for Mansa to tech Alphabet for me.
32 turns when I could have been trading for big gold 
I put all my espionage on Mansa at the start and watched him tech Writing and when he got to Alphabet and like 50 turns I was sure he'd speed up but he never did.
Got Pyramids done in 1600BC.
T71-T95
Oracle in 1700BC netted 230 fail gold thanks to marble and chopping it in another city before completion in Boston. Picked Currency. One or two AI had Priesthood and I was worried to wait any longer.
Couldn't actually trade techs for cash until 900BC because I waited for Mansa to tech Alphabet for me.
32 turns when I could have been trading for big gold I put all my espionage on Mansa at the start and watched him tech Writing and when he got to Alphabet and like 50 turns I was sure he'd speed up but he never did.
Got Pyramids done in 1600BC.
T71-T95
Spoiler :
Here is the empire in 1300BC:
Had to razeEgypt India a little bit to get the stone city in the right spot.
Also, had to halt the southern campaign against Roosevelt because the war against De Gaulle went badly (T85-T92). The old start with 4 vs. 1 odds and by the time you get there he's got 3 archers not 1. Got his capital down to one defender with like 0.1 hp. Then the next turn, he reinforced and again was down to a <1hp defender after another attack. No matter what I did was one war chariot short.
So after a temporary ceasefire so he didn't build more archers, more reinforcements were made and the southern front joined the eastern front and the French were smashed oh yes!
It was quite spirited resistance! France is usually a pushover
Had a crazy great person plan. Ran two scientists in the Oracle city and got a Great Scientist in 1200BC(At rather low odds!). Bulbed Philopsophy in 900BC once I got Alphabet. Switched to Caste+Pacifism thanks to Spiritual Ramesses and quickly cranked out another Great Scientist in my Hanging Gardens city (made a Thebes Academy I think). In either case, a Great Prophet or a Great Engineer would have been fine with me.
The main plan at this point was for Thebes to cottage up a lot while building a few wonders, Boston to build a ton of wonders, and Persepopolis to build a few wonders and be the main Great Artist Pump. Eventually all 3 cities tried to pump out Great Artists. I didn't care about GPP pollution/purity and used the non Great Artists as best as I could when they came up, mostly for golden ages and bulbing.
T96-T120:
T108 Went to war with Asoka to get a city that had Judaism in it. Nabbed it quick! Then Asoka started building spears and I wasn't able to conquer any more of his cities.
Spoiler :
Had to raze
Also, had to halt the southern campaign against Roosevelt because the war against De Gaulle went badly (T85-T92). The old start with 4 vs. 1 odds and by the time you get there he's got 3 archers not 1. Got his capital down to one defender with like 0.1 hp. Then the next turn, he reinforced and again was down to a <1hp defender after another attack. No matter what I did was one war chariot short.
So after a temporary ceasefire so he didn't build more archers, more reinforcements were made and the southern front joined the eastern front and the French were smashed oh yes!
It was quite spirited resistance! France is usually a pushover
Had a crazy great person plan. Ran two scientists in the Oracle city and got a Great Scientist in 1200BC(At rather low odds!). Bulbed Philopsophy in 900BC once I got Alphabet. Switched to Caste+Pacifism thanks to Spiritual Ramesses and quickly cranked out another Great Scientist in my Hanging Gardens city (made a Thebes Academy I think). In either case, a Great Prophet or a Great Engineer would have been fine with me.
The main plan at this point was for Thebes to cottage up a lot while building a few wonders, Boston to build a ton of wonders, and Persepopolis to build a few wonders and be the main Great Artist Pump. Eventually all 3 cities tried to pump out Great Artists. I didn't care about GPP pollution/purity and used the non Great Artists as best as I could when they came up, mostly for golden ages and bulbing.
T96-T120:
Spoiler :
T108 Went to war with Asoka to get a city that had Judaism in it. Nabbed it quick! Then Asoka started building spears and I wasn't able to conquer any more of his cities.
Nice to see any civ can worker steal when done properly.
Couldn't actually trade techs for cash until 900BC because I waited for Mansa to tech Alphabet for me.
I put all my espionage on Mansa at the start and watched him tech Writing and when he got to Alphabet and like 50 turns I was sure he'd speed up but he never did.
I'm notorious for beelining Alphabet, so I don't run into this problem much. However, did you ever consider:
a) Turning Espionage off Mansa so he wouldn't competitively run his esp slider (so research is faster) ?
b) offer a gpt gift to get him so he'd turn up his research?
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- Mar 26, 2007
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As Kaitzilla noted, that's not that difficult to do at Monarch level.
Just a bit more difficult for Civs that start with Hunting and a Scout.
Sun Tzu Wu
Thanks for all that info, Kaitzilla. It looks like my completely-peaceful-favourite game is not-at-all optimal at levels bellow Deity.
Could you add some info about cathedrals built, total number of GPs, usage of every GP? I'd really appreciate that.
Could you add some info about cathedrals built, total number of GPs, usage of every GP? I'd really appreciate that.
Sorry got sidetracked.
Will try to finish it up now.
T129 DoW America to finish what DeGaulle interrupted.
T130 Germany doesn't like yet another DoW and retaliates against me with their own DoW. Not a big deal. He is decently far away.
T134 (650BC) America is destroyed! I now no longer desired any more wars because I had enough cities and religions and resources to win culture quickly.
T138 Signed peace with Germany.
T121-T142:
Spoiler :
Empire in 10BC:
T165 Liberalism! (125BC) Picked Nationalism. Changed to Free speech after a few turns and went 100% culture. Started Hermitage and Taj in various places.
T143-T167: (Up to 95BC)
Spoiler :
per turn - Thebes is mainly cottages and a few wonders. Works hammer tiles to build cathedrals, then goes to cottages later. Should only need a few culture bombs at end hopefully.
T165 Liberalism! (125BC) Picked Nationalism. Changed to Free speech after a few turns and went 100% culture. Started Hermitage and Taj in various places.
T143-T167: (Up to 95BC)
Spoiler :
T169 Change to Free Speech
T171 100% Culture Slider for rest of game!
T172 Peter sensing weakness DoWs me in a war I don't want. End up burning a lot of hammers fighting him off!
T175 Golden Age starts!
T180 Signed peace with Peter! Darn him for that pointless war.
T168-T188:
T171 100% Culture Slider for rest of game!
T172 Peter sensing weakness DoWs me in a war I don't want. End up burning a lot of hammers fighting him off!
T175 Golden Age starts!
T180 Signed peace with Peter! Darn him for that pointless war.
T168-T188:
Spoiler :
T210 FINALLY got a decent peace against Peter after smashing him to ribbons. I made a mistake putting him in this game. No matter how good a trading partner he is, he sure loves war!
T220 Golden Age ends after 7 centuries!
T203-T224:
T220 Golden Age ends after 7 centuries!
T203-T224:
Spoiler :
Religions:
2000BC Aquired Buddhism by conquering Gandhi in a few centuries.
1300BC Aquired Judaism by capturing 1 Asoka city.
1100BC Teched Code of Laws and founded Confuscianism.
900BC Bulbed Philo and got Taoism.
440BC Bulbed Theo and got Christianity.
460AD Aquired a Mansa city with Hinduism in it when it revolted from culture pressure. Kumbi Saleh
520AD Aquired Evora in culture revolt with Hinduism in it
805AD Aquired Djenne in culture revolt with Hinduism in it.
Managed one Hindu Cathedral in Thebes late in the game.
Great People: (Started Pacifism + Caste in 875BC I think)
1st GP: 1200BC Great Scientist born in Boston (Mixed odds, used for bulbing Philosophy 900BC)
2nd GP: 775BC Great Scientist born in Persepolis (Low odds, used for Academy in Thebes 675BC)
3rd GP: 500BC Great Artist born in Thebes because 1st to Music (Saved for culture bomb)
4th GP: 440BC Great Prophet born in Boston (Mixed odds, used for bulbing Theology in 410BC)
5th GP: 380BC Great Engineer born in Persepolis (Low odds, used to instantly build Aposolistic Palace in Boston in 335BC)
6th GP: 260BC Great Scientist born in Persepolis (Good odds, used for bulbing the rest of Education in 245BC)
------------------------------------------------ I try really hard to get all Great Artists after this point
7th GP: 80BC Great Artist born in Persepolis (??? odds, Saved for culture bomb)
8th GP: 20BC Great Merchant born in Boston (??? odds, used for Golden Age in 25AD I think because Mausoleum finished in Thebes turn before)
9th GP: 100AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (Good odds, Saved for culture bomb)
10th GP: 220AD Great Scientist born in Thebes (??? odds, used for 3rd Golden age after Taj was wearing off)
11th GP: 355AD Great Prophet born in Boston (??? odds, used for 3rd Golden age after Taj was wearing off)
12th GP: 385AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (Good odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
13th GP: 670AD Great Artist born in Boston (70%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
14th GP: 805AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (80%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
15th GP: 1020AD Great Artist born in Boston (70%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
Ya, I got lucky at the end! That last culture bomb saved me a lot of turns for sure in Thebes
Cathedrals: Persepolis 5 [-] Boston 5+Hermitage [-] Thebes 6
Culture Bombed: Persepolis more than Thebes. Only 7 Great Artists
Struggling to remember. Thebes used 2 Great Artists I think. It all fuzzy now. I know I culture bombed Persepolis centuries early from the culture graph.
I don't really see any records that record culture bombs
I'm certain I starved the 3 Legendary cities trying to squeeze out late Great Artists. Increased the odds if nothing else.
Keeping 100% culture from BC's till end of game was pretty hard. Sold TONS of techs for small amounts of gold. Even made arrogant demands against a bunch of civs
Washington with Heroic Epic pumped out endless military units so none of my other cities had to. It really saved me during the Peter/Russian wars.
2000BC Aquired Buddhism by conquering Gandhi in a few centuries.
1300BC Aquired Judaism by capturing 1 Asoka city.
1100BC Teched Code of Laws and founded Confuscianism.
900BC Bulbed Philo and got Taoism.
440BC Bulbed Theo and got Christianity.
460AD Aquired a Mansa city with Hinduism in it when it revolted from culture pressure. Kumbi Saleh
520AD Aquired Evora in culture revolt with Hinduism in it
805AD Aquired Djenne in culture revolt with Hinduism in it.
Managed one Hindu Cathedral in Thebes late in the game.
Great People: (Started Pacifism + Caste in 875BC I think)
1st GP: 1200BC Great Scientist born in Boston (Mixed odds, used for bulbing Philosophy 900BC)
2nd GP: 775BC Great Scientist born in Persepolis (Low odds, used for Academy in Thebes 675BC)
3rd GP: 500BC Great Artist born in Thebes because 1st to Music (Saved for culture bomb)
4th GP: 440BC Great Prophet born in Boston (Mixed odds, used for bulbing Theology in 410BC)
5th GP: 380BC Great Engineer born in Persepolis (Low odds, used to instantly build Aposolistic Palace in Boston in 335BC)
6th GP: 260BC Great Scientist born in Persepolis (Good odds, used for bulbing the rest of Education in 245BC)
------------------------------------------------ I try really hard to get all Great Artists after this point
7th GP: 80BC Great Artist born in Persepolis (??? odds, Saved for culture bomb)
8th GP: 20BC Great Merchant born in Boston (??? odds, used for Golden Age in 25AD I think because Mausoleum finished in Thebes turn before)
9th GP: 100AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (Good odds, Saved for culture bomb)
10th GP: 220AD Great Scientist born in Thebes (??? odds, used for 3rd Golden age after Taj was wearing off)
11th GP: 355AD Great Prophet born in Boston (??? odds, used for 3rd Golden age after Taj was wearing off)
12th GP: 385AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (Good odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
13th GP: 670AD Great Artist born in Boston (70%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
14th GP: 805AD Great Artist born in Persepolis (80%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
15th GP: 1020AD Great Artist born in Boston (70%? odds, Saved for Culture bomb)
Ya, I got lucky at the end! That last culture bomb saved me a lot of turns for sure in Thebes
Cathedrals: Persepolis 5 [-] Boston 5+Hermitage [-] Thebes 6
Culture Bombed: Persepolis more than Thebes. Only 7 Great Artists
Struggling to remember. Thebes used 2 Great Artists I think. It all fuzzy now. I know I culture bombed Persepolis centuries early from the culture graph.
I don't really see any records that record culture bombs
I'm certain I starved the 3 Legendary cities trying to squeeze out late Great Artists. Increased the odds if nothing else.
Keeping 100% culture from BC's till end of game was pretty hard. Sold TONS of techs for small amounts of gold. Even made arrogant demands against a bunch of civs
Washington with Heroic Epic pumped out endless military units so none of my other cities had to. It really saved me during the Peter/Russian wars.
What a wealth of information! I'm really enjoying reading.
Thank you very much, Kaitzilla.
- Thebes used 3 of its FPs as farms, the rest as cottages. What made you decide 3 of them should be farms, and not 4 of them or 2 of them?
- At 10BC research was set for MC. Why? In my games I try to get Liberalism as fast as possible, only then I backtrack to MC (on my way to Mercantilism) if I couldn't trade for it.
Thank you very much, Kaitzilla.
- Thebes used 3 of its FPs as farms, the rest as cottages. What made you decide 3 of them should be farms, and not 4 of them or 2 of them?
- At 10BC research was set for MC. Why? In my games I try to get Liberalism as fast as possible, only then I backtrack to MC (on my way to Mercantilism) if I couldn't trade for it.
Teched Liberalism between T157 to T165 (125BC). Picked Nationalism. So BC Liberalism
Then went for Drama-> Calendar -> Metal Casting because of the resources and Mausaleum for Golden Age.
OMG, T169 Free Speech. Why'd I wait 3 turns to change civics?
*Edit* Oh I see. I wanted 100% science to get Drama and Calendar first. Always good to have Mausolleum for extra long triple Golden Age.
Mmm, made 3 farms because needed the capital to get huge as fast as possible to work all those mines. I valued hammers and population more than cottages. Once the capital had enough Wonders and Cathedral, I cottaged everything.
Right now I just open all the spoiler logs and type Control+F and then search for Thebes, Great Scientist, Heroic Epic, declares war, etc. etc.
Final Legendary City Screenshots from Turn before End (1070AD):
Spoiler :
WilliamOfOrange
King
Thanks for this write up.....you have cleared up some of my questions regarding worker stealing and such. Great job! 
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