I'm considering it partly for you, and partly because I really because of BTS. I'm not sure I can come up with any other good Vanilla/Warlords Majors when the new XP is drawing in people, and we seem to have a warm reception to this one.
G-Major 14
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
I like a minimal approach, but it seems to me that a 4th (or 5th) city can only help you. You can still run 100% sci all the time if you manage your cash with good tech trades. 4th and 5th cities can build workers missionaries and pop several GAs. They can also grab an extra resource or two. I don't think 3 cities is optimal, but I'm sure you can win that way.
So here is the total effect:
Production and commerce = 1.05/0.86 = 22% faster on Quick than Marahon (10% vs Epic, 5% vs Normal)
Culture required = 0,67/0.5 = 34% faster than other speeds
Effect from 1 GA (net of less cuture required) = the same for all speeds (8% of Legendary).
The choice is evident.
However, the idea that GA are more efficient than commerce is incorrect.
Production and commerce = 1.05/0.86 = 22% faster on Quick than Marahon (10% vs Epic, 5% vs Normal)
Culture required = 0,67/0.5 = 34% faster than other speeds
Effect from 1 GA (net of less cuture required) = the same for all speeds (8% of Legendary).
The choice is evident.
However, the idea that GA are more efficient than commerce is incorrect.
Harbourboy
Deity
Aaaaaaaargh. I was playing my unlucky 13th game and was very happy with how things were going because I was getting 573 culture per turn from my capital, so no GAs required there.
I had GA'd my 2nd city to 10,000 culture, to go along with the 150 cpt it was already making, but then, disaster! Gandhi managed to flip it to him! I can't believe it! I have never had a culture city flip away from me before.
Back to the drawing board.........
I had GA'd my 2nd city to 10,000 culture, to go along with the 150 cpt it was already making, but then, disaster! Gandhi managed to flip it to him! I can't believe it! I have never had a culture city flip away from me before.
Back to the drawing board.........
maybe you better get rid of Gandhi
And how could you still lose to Marathon?!
Marathon was a poorly thought out, poorly balanced speed thrown in on one of the patches (1.09?). It has dozens of advantages, the biggest one being it magnifies how unbalanced the Incas are...and is anyone getting good finish dates with marathon and any other civ but Inca? I avoid both Inca and marathon as much as possible.
Harbourboy
Deity
Actually, maybe I do need to get rid of Gandhi as he has foiled my evil plans on at least two occasions now. Hmm, who to replace him with? One of the Chinese guys?
Harbourboy
Deity
The best thing about Quick is that you can fit in more unsuccessful attempts before the deadline!
I'm not sure what your point is. Quick is set to 25,000 to attempt to balance it against Epic. Marathon did not exist when they tried to balance the speeds. They don't appear to have put much thought into balancing it either. Probably should have been 200,000 for Marathon.
Example: you start with a standard 3835 BC style inca rush...(one of those conquest games where you take 2 cities as fast as possible.) That means by turn 10 you have 3 cities and 2 workers. Turn 10 is the same as turn 2 on quick speed! Even on Settler difficulty I can't pop 2 settlers and 2 workers by turn 2.
Harbourboy
Deity
Is the impact of anarchy greater on Quick speed then? Given that every turn is precious at that speed? Does that increase the power of Spiritual at Quick?
If you can time it so you change 4 civics at the same time, then you save a lot.
That only takes 1 turn.
I can do "HerRule + Bureau + Slavery + Org Rel"
then "FreeSp + Caste + Merc + Pacif"
plus Choosing a religion.
for only 3 total turns of anarchy, but you probably want FreeMarket at some point.
Spiritual is very strong if you're planning many small civics changes.
Harbourboy
Deity
Free Market? How can you possibly get to Free Market in this game? I thought you had to go full-noise Culture straight after Liberalism to have any chance?
It's debatable, but Merc is usually available when I switch to FS, and FreeMarket isn't always.
Depending on how the timing works out, Merc can be better. If you can make 2-4 cities pop a GA before the deadline when they would normally not be able to get in time with Free market. That's an extra 5000-10,000 culture from the GAs. The extra culture from Free market is nowhere near that. And if you spend an extra turn in Anarchy just to switch to FM, Merc could come out way ahead.
Even if you're savvy enough to trade all the way up to Corporation (for the extra trade route), I'm not sure FM beats Merc, but FM sure looks good at that point. Surely, if I'm a spiritual leader, I can calculate the right time to switch based on GA production, but non-spiritual might be better off staying on merc.
I thought a GA on Quick gives 2,620 or 2,680 culture?
If so, then it only takes 9 artists(2620*9=23580 and 2680*9=24120) and very minor other cultural development to make a city legendary. Isn't that better than Normal or Epic(could be wrong, I thought Epic was 6k culture and 75k legendary which would take 12 GA and minor cultural development)?
There are many small disadvantages to Quick Speed.
Some of them are:
-inefficient whipping
-multiplied lost of turn while moving workers and settlers to their destination
-5 turns without being able to change civics again (same in all speeds!)
-10 turns to dow again (same in all speeds!)
-10 turns to break a resources trade (same in all speeds!)
-50 turns to get +1 because of peace (same in all speeds!)
-Ditto for every relations modifier
-etc, etc, etc
The biggest advantage of Quick is the one mentioned by Harbourboy, and thats the reason I play it in my quest for the perfect strategy.
To the admins:
Could the dates mentioned by Lexad, the 25000 instead of 33333 mentioned by WatinTime and the small details in this post be fixed in a MOD?
I really hate this out-game factors. I dont want to talk about rounding mistakes in years in different speeds, I want to talk about different strategies when playing the game
Which takes me to FiveAces proposed strategy. I like it, it is simple and flawless. Just try it and win the gauntlet! If you dont win, well, just propose another strategy. That's the way to progress. Just a comment, why delay the building of the third city? Build it soon, get missionaries out of it, cottage it now that you have it
Oh, if that's the reason, then please, go for it!!! Pretty please!
Some of them are:
-inefficient whipping
-multiplied lost of turn while moving workers and settlers to their destination
-5 turns without being able to change civics again (same in all speeds!)
-10 turns to dow again (same in all speeds!)
-10 turns to break a resources trade (same in all speeds!)
-50 turns to get +1 because of peace (same in all speeds!)
-Ditto for every relations modifier
-etc, etc, etc
The biggest advantage of Quick is the one mentioned by Harbourboy, and thats the reason I play it in my quest for the perfect strategy.
To the admins: Could the dates mentioned by Lexad, the 25000 instead of 33333 mentioned by WatinTime and the small details in this post be fixed in a MOD?
I really hate this out-game factors. I dont want to talk about rounding mistakes in years in different speeds, I want to talk about different strategies when playing the game
Which takes me to FiveAces proposed strategy. I like it, it is simple and flawless. Just try it and win the gauntlet! If you dont win, well, just propose another strategy. That's the way to progress. Just a comment, why delay the building of the third city? Build it soon, get missionaries out of it, cottage it now that you have it
Oh, if that's the reason, then please, go for it!!! Pretty please!
You are right, of course. But the same factor applies to every culture you get from a cottage or building. When you get 1 culture in Quick, you've done 1/25000 of the way. And getting that point is 66% cheaper than normal. In normal speed you get 1 culture at the normal cost, and it means 1/50000 od the way.
I don't know if I made it clear, let's rephrase, Quick is better because you need 25000 instead of the expected 33333. It doesn't matter where your culutre comes from. GA points are well balanced, 2680/4000=66%.
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