G-Major 14

[FiveAces]

Don't research Currency yourself. Same for Drama.
I don't know if it is best, by I stay a couple of turns 0% research after Alpha while trading to Priesthood. A wise guy told me his trick: use this turns to revolt to slavery.

Great tip. I usually one-turned meditation and PH into throwaway trades and saved Slavery til CS. Never thought about this.

You guys who are having trouble with tech trading - the AI knows what you're researching and how far you are (for trading purposes definitely, not sure if they strategize their research too, that would be most unfair but I wouldn't be surprised). So you can take advantage of the and sometimes trade an equal tech (like alpha for monarchy) after you've researched the latter only one turn. Which if it's near unique, you can then trade for a whole bunch of backfills and cash.

 

[FiveAces]

So does anyone think it is a better idea to run scientists in the GP farm only? I think a GP farm would take longer to set up than the capital though, and you need to lightbulb philo before getting civil service done do you not?QUOTE]

It is a better idea to run the sci's in the GP Farm. Whether you can do it or not and pop the GS in time depends on the map. In most cases though you should really try to use the GP Farm to pop the 2nd GS.

The library is also good for expanding the GP farm's boundaries if you don't have a religion.

 

[WastinTime]

You guys who are having trouble with tech trading - the AI knows what you're researching and how far you are (for trading purposes definitely,... So you can take advantage of the and sometimes trade an equal tech (like alpha for monarchy) after you've researched the latter only one turn. Which if it's near unique, you can then trade for a whole bunch of backfills and cash.

This is the best tip I've heard all year. I suspected this might be true, but never got around to trying it. Once I start researching something, I never think to still try to trade for it. I'm going to start working this heavily.

 

[Harbourboy]

Would any of you mind posting some more specific stats on where you expect to be by 0AD to be successful in this game? I'm thinking things like:
- number of cities
- latest tech
- base commerce in culture cities
- GP points per turn in GP farm

I need some way of benchmarking whether I am going wrong in the BC years or the AD years.

27th attempt just ended after I accidentally went in Defensive Pact with Saladin. Of course, you can guess what happened next turn.

 

[Lexad]

This is the best tip I've heard all year. I suspected this might be true, but never got around to trying it. Once I start researching something, I never think to still try to trade for it. I'm going to start working this heavily.

This is true (trade value is proportional to bulb ef to research), yet this does not override the monopoly issue - only gjod relations or war do.

 

[FiveAces]

This is the best tip I've heard all year. I suspected this might be true, but never got around to trying it. Once I start researching something, I never think to still try to trade for it. I'm going to start working this heavily.

Thx. It's very helpful if you start to fall behind the Lib path - I've traded Lit for 2 turns of CS and got Lib by 1 in the end. So you could say I traded Lit for Nationalism in a way.

 

[FiveAces]

Would any of you mind posting some more specific stats on where you expect to be by 0AD to be successful in this game? I'm thinking things like:
- number of cities
- latest tech
- base commerce in culture cities
- GP points per turn in GP farm

I need some way of benchmarking whether I am going wrong in the BC years or the AD years.

27th attempt just ended after I accidentally went in Defensive Pact with Saladin. Of course, you can guess what happened next turn.

My advice is with the reservation that I do not consider myself an expert player. I've only had Civ4 for 2+ months and my only win in this Gauntlet so far is 1585, although I did have one set for 1530's but I miscounted GA's and bombed the wrong city.

That being said I am fairly certain you are going astray in the BC years. If you get Lib 0AD thereabouts, the rest is fairly straightforward: build hermitage and cathedrals in the right cities and maximize CPT/GPP.

- cities: you need minimum 3 by 1000BC, one of which must be a very good GP farm site, 1 early religion spread, 2 later religion spread and a 4th city by 0AD to build missionaries and the late temples. That's enough to win.

- tech: finishing edu or researching Lib. You must have Lib by 200AD or you can not count on winning - assume AI launch 1550-1600. jesusin's monster game needed from 55BC to 1280AD to generate culture even with umpteen GA's, you will need at least that much time, so if you don't switch over until after 200AD it's gonna be tight. It will also be very helpful to trade up to corp. later on (lib and/or pp/gold for nat, nat to everybody for whatever they have, lib/pp/whatever for const, trade const for whatever, lib/pp/whatever for corp)

- commerce: hardest one to benchmark. You obviously need enough to win the race to Lib, unless you plan to pop a 3rd GS for that (won't get you best time, but I think you can still win, though with great difficulty). Better benchmark - You need to have enough to get Lib by 200AD with only your 3 cultural cities active. If you are winning the race to Lib after 0AD because of cities 4/5/6 you do not have enough. Also, consider if you are working say, 4 river hamlets vs. of 2 golds. Same base 16C, but the golds are stuck and the hamlets are not - you don't need as much commerce at 0AD if it's growing commerce.

- GP points: simple. You need to be able to pop 10 GA's by 1550 to be safe (1, 2 max may be from aux GP farms if you have these). If you don't have enough GA's, you will need to make it up in commerce or an "extra" cathedral in the 3rd city.

Also be careful where you build the hermitage. Building it in the wrong city can mean the difference between a loss and a win.

Hope this helps. best of luck to you.

 

[Dracandross]

This is the best tip I've heard all year. I suspected this might be true, but never got around to trying it. Once I start researching something, I never think to still try to trade for it. I'm going to start working this heavily.

Well instead of going for 100% gold after alpha I usually hit a round for here and there to get those with writing. For example you can get bronze work with writing+1 round of research usually... Of course it might be enough with lower sci though too... Then research something else for 1 round too to get it. Usually you beat AI to alpha so good that you can delay few rounds so that you can get most outta alpha before giving it away.

Also good to note that if you go for meditation its worth more that priesthood and can be traded for it. That means if none is willing to trade medi go for it yourself and trade priesthood with it while still holding alpha. Not that you can delay CoL much because then youll lose time but writing is useless anyway and you need to give it for something good before trading alpha.

-Dracandross

 

[FiveAces]

Harbourboy, a follow-up to your BC question before I sign off for the day: in your GP Farm, build lib and work 3 river cottages first, pref on FP's for growth, unless you need food for health elsewhere. Always work these - you now will need at least 1 less bomb to make it legendary and you early tech faster too. Then work mines/food, run a sci, build gran and run 2nd sci for edu, then bang out NE. Then build farms/aqueduct and your pop should be up enough by the time you are ready to spam GA's.

 

[WastinTime]

Would any of you mind posting some more specific stats on where you expect to be by 0AD to be successful in this game?

I need some way of benchmarking whether I am going wrong in the BC years or the AD years.

A better idea would be to start a discussion on how to win this game. Most of the tips you're getting are win this gauntlet. You don't need to be first to Liberalism, or Music, or found religions, etc. You have 2 things to worry about, getting into a war, and having the AI win some other way. War should not happen 90% of the time if you just avoid religion and give them good tech trade deals, since you are already playing with the friendly bunch (not sure about Saladin though). So you're next strategy should be to slow down the AI. Play a map with high seas and maybe add an extra AI or two. Or try island maps...that'll really kill them and you won't have border problems. Hang on to alphabet as long as you can (wait for someone else to get it on their own). Trade CoL instead.

 

[Harbourboy]

OK then, you tech trading snake oil merchants, what is the best way forward from this position in 320AD? I hear a lot about being able to trade for Corporation (something I have never seen done). Can it be done from here?

Other information: I have 5 cities. Capital is good. GP Farm has fish, cow, and floodplains. National Epic is up and running. Other 3 cities are still finding their feet. No obvious room for a 6th city unless I get border expansions soon.

Also:

n your GP Farm, build lib and work 3 river cottages first, pref on FP's for growth, unless you need food for health elsewhere. Always work these - you now will need at least 1 less bomb to make it legendary

So are you saying that the GP farm should be one of the 3 culture cities? I thought someone said that was a bad idea because you could never build anything there and it had no commerce because it was all farms?

 

[WastinTime]

I finally got a map I liked and played the game to the end instead of abandoning it. I should have gotten 1295 AD, but I got 1335 AD. A few things went wrong besides that last GA, so I think I can beat the 1280 AD date if I have time to go again.

A few shocking stats: Zero GS, only 1 religion before Liberalism, I was NOT 1st to liberalism (320AD), I was NOT 1st to music. I could not trade for Economics, so I couldn't use FM at the end (would've saved a couple more turns). I wasted all this time building a fifth city only to have it flip over to Mansa...and oddly, never flipped back. Mansa's music artist bomb also made one of my culture cities starve down to 1 before I bombed it back.

Good things: Mansa gifted me Philo in 685 BC.
Nat Epic city ran 10 artists!

 

[Harbourboy]

Nice work, WastinTime! What else made this game so successful for you? You say you did this with only 4 cities? How does that work? How many cathedrals did you manage to build?

Mansa Musa is a legend. He gifts me a pre-liberalism tech just about every game, even if I am doing well in tech.

 

[WastinTime]

Nice work, WastinTime! What else made this game so successful for you? You say you did this with only 4 cities? How does that work? How many cathedrals did you manage to build?

Mansa Musa is a legend. He gifts me a pre-liberalism tech just about every game, even if I am doing well in tech.

I only built 2 cathedrals. Must have been the 10 artist city that made it work. A few useless cities flipped to me late, so yea, just 4 cities did all the work. I'm going to try for 6 cities though next time.

 

[WastinTime]

One more surprising fact...I had only 1 cow and some flood plains...zero other food resources in my capitol...and 2 gold.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Congrats WastinTime.

What was your GP farm like for resources then? What about health?

I can't seem to find any good spots for a GP farm in the games I have played (Inland Sea, low sea level, temperate climate). I was even considering trying tropical climate but I guess I would need Iron Working early on that one and lots of workers for chopping.

 

[Harbourboy]

WastinTime, where did you build those 2 cathedrals? How could you get anywhere near enough culture per turn in your cities with so few cathedrals?

 

[WastinTime]

My capitol had Herm and 2 cathedrals and required no artist bombs. It was done early...1295 AD. My 2 other were gp farms and had very little culture per turn. I just bombed them 8 - 8 - 0.

My 10 artist farm had Pig, Wheat, Banana, 2 FloodPl. Best I've seen in a long time. I also play Inland Sea, temperate, but I tried medium sea level.

 

[Harbourboy]

Fascinating! I have been trying to go for 3 commerce driven culture cities, backed up bombs from 1 GP farm.

But you are saying it can be done with about 1.5 culture cities and 1.5 GP farms? That is completely different to my approach, and seeing as my approach has not worked yet, anything that is different to my approach is worth a try.

Hmm, this does make some sense. One of the more difficult things to do in a fast game like this is to get lots of cottages up and running and matured. By going for 2 GP farms, you are recognising the fact that food can be converted to artists more quickly than cottages can be converted to towns. By putting all your commerce eggs into one basket in the powerhouse capital, you can overcome this to some extent.

Not sure how well this would work if you tried to combine it with the Three-GS-race-to-liberalism strategy because the loss of 3 Great Artists may be fatal, depending on how much that was offset by earlier Free Speech. Actually, earlier Free Speech would be of no use to that strategy, because it would really only benefit the capital, which was already doing fine on its own. Early Free Speech would come at the cost of the artists that bomb the other two cities, leading to a bigger disparity between capital and others.

Also, without the guarantee of bulbing Philosophy, you are more dependent on other religions spreading to get the two cathedrals up. Plus, it must be harder to get Nationalism quickly without getting Liberalism first or close to first.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I don't think I've ever seen a banana tile on my inland sea maps. Certainly not in my territory. Jungle tiles seem few and far between on temperate as well (lots of flood plains however). This is playing warlords though.