G-Major 144

[WastinTime]

Feudalism is appearing in my game around t235
I've had horrible luck with tech partners. Mansa did Construction (which I could have waited and gotten from anyone) and then Feudal -- a tech I never take from Mansa.
My only Friendly AI, Willy, also picked Feudalism and finished at the same time as Mansa.

Now Mansa is on Music (51). Fifty one turns! I don't know why so slow because he's got more cities than most AI. Must be all the jungle.

I should have my t250 numbers in the next couple days. I'd like to post them, but I'm concerned about the reaction....like last time.

 

[Pangaea]

Seriously, got any idea what is wrong with my Mansa?

It's like the Homer Simpson's school of negotiations.

edit: After a lot of trying and failing, I figured out that the sum he was willing to get for just HBR was 785 You'd almost think it was me offering Archery. Anyway, I finally took the deal, with Archery, as I needed the money. Very odd behaviour though.

 

[Seraiel]

I should have my t250 numbers in the next couple days. I'd like to post them, but I'm concerned about the reaction....like last time.

Don't worry, knowing how far one is behind is better than nothing. Don't hesitate to post a few screens .

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Funny game I just played that I wanted to share. WastinTime getting 18 cities 'til T150 made me try a game with IMP opponents to see if they're really settling more cities:

Got this funny start, double Silver. I like start near the Tundra area because then there's a lot of land with Trees one can expand to, also Silver is rare and hard to get so starting with has its charme. Start also has Marble, an Oasis and wet Corn and as you see:



i got 2 random events, Truffels and Waters of Life .

Researched Mining, then researched Masonry -> TW -> Pottery. The detour to Masonry was because I like Marble with Checker-rushes. With the city being size 4 it had 11 , unfortunately the difference between Silver and Gold is really noticeable:



Churned out Checkers and rolled over Roosevelt. The cities unfortunately have basically no potential in the 9-tiles-square. I think even with the Road and the one Cottage they cannot sustain themselves, the capital is nice though, the 2nd city more meh:



I then took the promoted troops from the war against Roosevelt (had luck in the fights) towards the neighbour Suleiman. He only had 3 cities and they look somehow the same with no real potential for in the 9-tiles-square, they were very badly defended though (only 1 and 2 Archers and one didn't even have fortify) so again luck / only 1 loss:



Losses + Kills after 5 cities:





1 loss / conquered city is ok, right? ^^

Then came Sulei's capital. It was on a Hill and was defended by 3 Archers. I lured one out and the highly promoted Checkers conquered it again with only a few losses...



City at least has a little potential for .

These are the losses with having 7 cities (I also conquered Darius capital, has Crabs + another Silver, with such a hammer-strong-start conquering a lot is definitely possible





9 losses for 7 cities .

Now if you'd think that this game would be amazing, not 100% sure as some cities are really nice and conquesting that much is great too but I'm basically broke and can only reach Writing because I built Stonehenge and the GW for Failgold . There's a lot of Gold on the map aswell but many Plains and the map is lacking real food.

Still 7 cities 'til T100 and a very high promoted army of Checkers is something. The map:



Probably not worth continuing like every single game in which I get Truffels or the +2 Quest. I maybe could reach Currency but I just don't like the city-locationis and getting the for Maths is probably almost impossible. Silver just isn't a very strong resource, 3 Silvers are like 2 Golds and those of you who tried know that one does't get very far with 2 Gold when conquesting over such huge distances and also gets so many cities and if those cities don't at least have a few cottageable tiles, preferably they should be pre-cottaged by the AI. I think I did steal quite some Workers though.
My personal thought would have been to simply Oracle CoL as it's probably the most I can get with such weak and without having conquered a Shrine getting a holy city ofc. is nice but then the game would even less be worth to be continued. However, still a long way until 18 cities and hard to top this result imo. as 9 losses for 6 cities is hard to beat. I could have had 7 more Checkers if I wouldn't have built Stonehenge and the GW for Failgold but then I wouldn't be able to reach Writing.

I more and more get the feeling that really very many things need to fall into place. If 17/18 cities are not on Hills that's imo. already a 1% chance but I also played a few other games for testing and finding an AI that expands to 7 cities is seldom even with IMP. One or two of 18 AIs do that by chance but it's not even necessarily IMP-related. The most important thing is probably to conquer strong cities so cities with Ivory, Cows etc.

 

[WastinTime]

silver is not even on a river. That makes it much worse.

 

[Pangaea]

Really well done getting 7 cities by T100. So strange to compare these starts with Persia in GM 137, where the first cities may have been gotten by around T100. Incas really are in a league of their own.

Agree the land isn't so great, however, as sad as that is with such a strong beginning. Not a great deal of food, and most of the food is on the poorer side (not so much corn or pigs), and there is a lot of desert and plains, with few floodplains to compensate.

Having played many starts myself, I can only concur that getting a truly great one takes so much luck with surroundings and locations of AIs, whether they get BW from huts, and of course lack of hill cities and strategics. So much can go wrong. Heck, even wandering in the right direction those first crucial turns, and finding a worker in the outer ring can be hard, yet so important. And all of that is after running Mapfinder to get good starts, typically 2-gold, which has already eliminated probably 95% of maps.

I've cooled down a bit on the REXing the last 10 or so turns, trying to improve the economy. But even so, it actually doesn't look that out of reach to get 50 cities by T250. Never would have thought that possible back in T170-200. Whether it was the right move to REX that hard is a different issue, but it is at least possible if you get the snowball rolling early enough.

 

[WastinTime]

t250 should feel pretty good.
I just got GreatLibrary from Hatty's capital (with academy ). It's size 10 and can support at least 6 scientists (8 with TGL). It comes out of revolt ~T249.

After that mission, I'm sending my team to Washington for T249 Parthenon capture.

That lines up with my GP birth to start my Golden age T249.

My city count will not be as high because I've been going for these surgical strikes on the capitals. Hatty's capital is going to be better than 5-10 cities.

 

[Pangaea]

I should obviously just give up. The game clearly hates me

edit:
Hmm, actually, I just had an idea. Don't want to give away any of my current cities as they are decent or on the way there, but if I whip out a settler and settle it near him (there is crap land free), I should be able to liberate it, and get +1 from that. Maybe that will be enough?

Of course, I'll probably get a negative random event with him on the turn I plan to settle that city. Just how this game has gone with regards to the Dutch twunt. It will be sweeeeeeeeet to mount his head on a pike outside Amsterdam when the time comes!!

 

[Folket]

I should obviously just give up. The game clearly hates me

Unless you play on Noble (i think) or below William has a hidden default relation of -1 with the human player. Then there might also be hidden +/- 1 from dependent on score.

 

[Folket]

Also the reason you had to get archery from Mansa was because he was in financial trouble. That causes the AI to value gold differently depending on if you suggest the deal or if he suggest the deal.

 

[Pangaea]

Huh? How can he be in financial trouble when he's got more gold than he knows what to do with it? This game sure can work in mysterious ways Don't think I would call myself "in financial trouble" with a bank account bursting at the seams, and a Ferrari in the driveway.

Would explain the strange behaviour I suppose. Never seen that before.

 

[Folket]

His break-even point on research is probably just below where he wants to be.

 

[Pangaea]

Hmm, actually, I just had an idea. Don't want to give away any of my current cities as they are decent or on the way there, but if I whip out a settler and settle it near him (there is crap land free), I should be able to liberate it, and get +1 from that. Maybe that will be enough?

Actually, before I try this, what is the exact mechanics for Liberation instead of a regular gift?

Arequipa, way south, can be liberated, but Warwick and London can just be gifted. Yet Arequipa is farthest away from his capital. Arequipa doesn't have any culture yet, if that matters.

Spoiler :

And yes, Willem just finished the Great Library in Amsterdam, making him an even juicier target

 

[cseanny]

On Standard Maps you get the Liberation bonus if the city in question is 6 tiles or closer from the AI's Capital and must have zero culture (pretty sure). Once you gift them a second city within that same radius the bonus jumps to +3 (these bonus never go away). I have no clue if 6 tiles < works for Huge or if scales with map size.

Edit: If Arequipa can be liberated then distance must scale with map size. I'd be curious to know the exact distance needed. Sure someone can WB test something quick.

2nd Edit: I just WB tested it and on Huge/Marathon the required tiles to receive Liberation bonuses are 20< with zero culture.

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks. I've tried searching the forum since that post, but, well...

The city is 13 tiles away, so that is well within the 20 tiles then. Will send a settler up there and found a crapville for him, which should then be able to get me +1 from liberation. Hopefully that is enough, 'cause I'm trying to grow the cities and not whip as hard.

Then war on Washington, and maybe Willem next? Unfortunately he too has longbows now... Guess it will spread around pretty rapidly now.

 

[cseanny]

I say don't make the city too close if you plan on attacking him next? He'll be sending workers for roads and improvements not to mention moving some units in the open too.

Good luck!

 

[elitetroops]

On Standard Maps you get the Liberation bonus if the city in question is 6 tiles or closer from the AI's Capital

I believe the rule is actually that it has to be closer to the AI capital than to any other capital in the world. Can be more than 6 tiles.

Edit: saw your second post. So apparently 20 tiles AND closer to AI capital than any other capital then.

 

[Pangaea]

Giggety giggety. Time to play with longbows.

Unfortunately Peter peaced out with Washington this very turn, but Boudica is still at war with him, so maybe I can get her to Friendly too via sharing war. Unless she too buggers off with the tail between her legs after suiciding chariots and the like against longbows.

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Aye, I could settle a half-decent spot for him, but think I'll just put it anywhere next turn so I can get CS from him, hopefully before stuff goes around. Seems like everybody are doing Machinery now, and I'd rather get CS before Mansa gets it, somehow, so I can use CS to get something from him. Music maybe? Sure would be nice to build culture in those darn island cities.

What would really be great, is if somebody bulbed Philo and I could get that. Very few great people born so far, so guess I shouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Pangaea]

A ~50 turn quest finally comes to an end

 

[WastinTime]

I believe the rule is actually that it has to be closer to the AI capital than to any other capital in the world. Can be more than 6 tiles.

Edit: saw your second post. So apparently 20 tiles AND closer to AI capital than any other capital then.

The closer capital rule is true.

20 tiles? Maybe if they have <4 cities, but it has to be <10 tiles otherwise.

 

[elitetroops]

20 tiles? Maybe if they have <4 cities, but it has to be <10 tiles otherwise.

<10 tiles from any of their cities, you mean?