G-Major 29

[Sun Tzu Wu]

How many leaders are there that do not start with Mysticism on Diety level? All the AIs start with several bonus techs. Do you have a list of AI leaders that do not have Mysticism as their starting tech at Diety level?

So far in my attempts, I have steared clear of the religious techs. I am able to trade for them when I get Alphabet. I generally get 4-5 religions spread to me by the AI players anyway. The only thing I am missing out on is the gold from the religious shrines (but then that would require a Great Prophet which would be a wasted Great Person...no?).

I'm suggesting Missionary spamming to other Civs as an expensive way to be pleased with them and have easy diplomacy that may result in a late win.

I keep thinking that the AIs start with the same starting Technologies that they would start with if a Human was playing them as defined here:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations/

Now, I'm not so sure. Do the AIs at Deity level start with more than the Technologies listed in the URI above? I now recall that a post saying they start with the entire first row of Technologies, but I don't know whether that is really true.

Can someone please definitively state which Technologies the AIs start with at Deity level?

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Mysticism does not seem to be a bonus tech for anyone. If you play Saladin against opponents that don't have it as a standard tech, you will always found bud or hindu, so no one can have it from the start.

How does one find out what Technologies a Deity level AI starts with?

I thought the following URI provided that information:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations/

Is this list incorrect for Diety level AIs?

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

I may have assumed wrong. My assumption is that the AI players have bonus techs at Diety level. I do not know for certain that this is true.

 

[Mesix]

My normal tech path is generally mining, agriculture, and animal husbandry (in no particular order) to link up resources (the leader often starts with at least one).

After resource techs I get (masonry if there are stone or marble present) pottery, writing, and alphabet. This enables cottage spam, libraries, open borders, and tech trading.

After bee lining alphabet I will research asthetics, literature, mathematics, and music. I will often put a couple of turns into mathepatics while tech trading so I don't waste research on polytheism (a prereq for literature). The AI players will generally trade me mysticism, meditation, polytheism, priesthood, bronze working, iron working, hunting and archery for a combination of writing and alphabet. If I am lucky I can also get monotheism and one or two additional techs if my alphabet bee line is quick enough.

I generally do not get to music first, but with luck I can build the Sistine Chapel even without winning the race. In my last game, I had stone in my BFC. I was able to have my second city complete the Pyramids. This allowed me to run Representation and also popped a great engineer just in time to rush the Sistine Chapel.

Is there a better (or at least different) tech strategy that other people have had success with?

 

[FiveAces]

I may have assumed wrong. My assumption is that the AI players have bonus techs at Diety level. I do not know for certain that this is true.

They have archery for sure. I do not know for certain about the rest either.

 

[FiveAces]

My normal tech path is generally mining, agriculture, and animal husbandry (in no particular order) to link up resources (the leader often starts with at least one).

After resource techs I get (masonry if there are stone or marble present) pottery, writing, and alphabet. This enables cottage spam, libraries, open borders, and tech trading.

After bee lining alphabet I will research asthetics, literature, mathematics, and music. I will often put a couple of turns into mathepatics while tech trading so I don't waste research on polytheism (a prereq for literature). The AI players will generally trade me mysticism, meditation, polytheism, priesthood, bronze working, iron working, hunting and archery for a combination of writing and alphabet. If I am lucky I can also get monotheism and one or two additional techs if my alphabet bee line is quick enough.

I generally do not get to music first, but with luck I can build the Sistine Chapel even without winning the race. In my last game, I had stone in my BFC. I was able to have my second city complete the Pyramids. This allowed me to run Representation and also popped a great engineer just in time to rush the Sistine Chapel.

Is there a better (or at least different) tech strategy that other people have had success with?

Try skipping AH unless you do not have an ag resource in your capital. You will get to alpha 10-15 turns sooner and you can trade for it then.

Also don't trade for hunting unless you have camp resources and never trade for archery - these techs are not needed but still count against your WFYABTA limit which will bite you later.

 

[jesusin]

Comments in green are my original comments/questions.

Comments in blue are my current comments/questions.



Sun Tzu Wu

I whipped 4 people into each cathedral whipped. The cities regrew 1 pop every 2 turns, mostly.

I choose my oponents just thinking about peaceful leaders that research very fast.

Gandhi is great because he founds religions and spreads them. I don't care if I found religions or not, I just want to have access to them.

I sincerelly believe that 1200AD victory is possible, but I didn't want to state so till I can prove it with a game.

 

[ZPV]

I may have assumed wrong. My assumption is that the AI players have bonus techs at Diety level. I do not know for certain that this is true.

The AI starts with The Wheel, Hunting, Agriculture, Archery, and their usual starting techs. This makes an AI which starts with Mysticism and Mining (such as India) a bit stronger than one with The Wheel and Hunting.

 

[jesusin]

But how to you steer clear of DOWs?

They must be always pleased. Gift them techs. Trade resources even if it is not beneficial.

 

[Mesix]

Try skipping AH unless you do not have an ag resource in your capital. You will get to alpha 10-15 turns sooner and you can trade for it then.

Also don't trade for hunting unless you have camp resources and never trade for archery - these techs are not needed but still count against your WFYABTA limit which will bite you later.

I never have trouble with being too advanced. I can win the Alphabet race. Sometines the Music race. Never the Liberalism race (on Diety that is). By the time I stop researching, all four of the AI players are giving me techs for be a poor backward civilization.

I generally research Animal Husbandry because I have been playing Great Plains maps. Having four cows in the starting cross makes it a must. I can crank out settlers in 3-4 turns with four cows properly pasturized. I like Great Plains for the abundant food and extra land area. I am generally able to build six cities with enough land in a corner for a seventh city (in case one of them gets culture turned in the late game before the cathedrials are finished in the big three).

I am giong to try Inland Sea. I see that a lot of people have had good experiences with this map. I'm sure that it is easier to get the two commerce cities up and running when the majority of the tiles are not plains.

 

[Mesix]

Now I truely know frustration.

My game was running a little long (1800s), but the AI only had two Legendary cities so far and no one had built the Apollo Program yet. I had five GA (I know a little light) ready to culture bomb as my first city approached 50K. I had two GA in another city which was at 43K and three in my capitol which was at 41K.

The proper turn came and I culture bombed one city, clicked on my capitol, merged the three GA into a stack of three, and...

I CLICKED THE WRONG DARN BUTTON!!!

I now had three GA settled in my capitol instead of 12K more culture!

My capitol was producing 700+ per turn now, so only a few turns...but...Ghandi finished a third Legendary city about six turns later.

Lesson learned...don't stack great people. If I had hit the wrong button one time, I would still have had two left to culture bomb to 49K+ and been one turn away.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[FiveAces]

jesusin (or anyone else playing BTS) - if you want a laugh, try this on vanilla. You can only play ~10% of your starts since the AI sends their settlers farther then on quick speed (another advantage). I had one game with 2 sites picked out within 7 tiles of the capital. Wor-war-set, and with 6 turns left on the settler, Asoka and Roos had a city on those spots. Jeez.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin (or anyone else playing BTS) - if you want a laugh, try this on vanilla. You can only play ~10% of your starts since the AI sends their settlers farther then on quick speed (another advantage). I had one game with 2 sites picked out within 7 tiles of the capital. Wor-war-set, and with 6 turns left on the settler, Asoka and Roos had a city on those spots. Jeez.

Well, 1265AD on Vanilla is possible. Even I have had 1295AD in the past.

By the way, that's were I caught my fobia against Wonders (no time for anything but settlers) and my preference for low sea levels

 

[FiveAces]

Well, 1265AD on Vanilla is possible. Even I have had 1295AD in the past.

By the way, that's were I caught my fobia against Wonders (no time for anything but settlers) and my preference for low sea levels

On small normal speed? I thought the only HOF entry was your 1690ish Ice Age map?

 

[jesusin]

On small normal speed? I thought the only HOF entry was your 1690ish Ice Age map?

Oooops, normal speed.
Maybe Ice Age is not the best available map.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The AI starts with The Wheel, Hunting, Agriculture, Archery, and their usual starting techs. This makes an AI which starts with Mysticism and Mining (such as India) a bit stronger than one with The Wheel and Hunting.

Is there a web link pointing to a table of AI starting Technologies based on Player level (Settler - Deity)?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

Another loss. Reached the 1600s and Mansa Musa got a cultural victory.

 

[Mesix]

Well, 1265AD on Vanilla is possible. Even I have had 1295AD in the past.

By the way, that's were I caught my fobia against Wonders (no time for anything but settlers) and my preference for low sea levels

Do you think Vanila might be easier (less tech to research to get to Liberalism etc.)?

 

[FiveAces]

I think vanilla is harder, mainly because you can't count on getting prime city sites, you can't count on founding any religions (unless you are saladin/indian) you can't build parthenon or sistine, and sistine is only good for +2/artist anyway.

 

[ZPV]

@Sun Tzu Wu:

I don't know of an online resourse that has this listed; I took it directly from the XML.

The AI always gets its civs starting techs (so Rome always has Fishing and Mining, for example). They get bonus techs as per the difficulty level.

Deity - The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Archery
Immortal - Agriculture, Hunting, Archery
Emporer - Hunting, Archery
Monarch - Archery (even if no Hunting)

If the AI already starts with one of the bonus techs, I don't know if they get another one.

On low difficulty levels, the human gets bonus techs:
Warlord - The Wheel
Chieftan - The Wheel, Agriculture
Settler - The Wheel, Agriculture, Mining


@Mesix

I think BTS is deifintely easier.
Vanilla Deity bonuses are moderately but significantly bigger, most notably the extra Worker, Archer and Scout, the 95% discount on unit upgrades (50% in BTS), and the 40% discount on population growth (20% in BTS).

IIRC, the Vanilla AI will tech faster at the expense of military, and the space race is quicker than in BTS, so the AI will launch earlier.