G-Major 29
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
Why is philo down the drain? Isn't it still the best trait?
If you're looking to replicate the Inca strategy, wouldn't you use Immortals or War Chariots? I think this will be tough at normal speed. I'm betting on a peaceful strategy. You can always try to steal their cities with culture instead of military.
If you're looking to replicate the Inca strategy, wouldn't you use Immortals or War Chariots? I think this will be tough at normal speed. I'm betting on a peaceful strategy. You can always try to steal their cities with culture instead of military.
Killkillkill!
Warchars, maybe. In BtS AI is much smarter militarily, though. Still, BtS provides great opportunities due to better and cheaper golden ages and further Parthenon, so it does not compete for hammers with Oracle.
Philo is certainly not down the drain, but it is less potent than on Quick as the real required culture is much higher, while Philo's marginal effect is decreasing with time = number of GP. Therefore more religions = faster victory.
Warchars, maybe. In BtS AI is much smarter militarily, though. Still, BtS provides great opportunities due to better and cheaper golden ages and further Parthenon, so it does not compete for hammers with Oracle.
Philo is certainly not down the drain, but it is less potent than on Quick as the real required culture is much higher, while Philo's marginal effect is decreasing with time = number of GP. Therefore more religions = faster victory.
I agree with your assessment--religions are important, but they should spread to you on a small map. Founding is not necessary.
In the early days of Deity Culture (before quick/Great Artists became the fad) the prevailing strategy was pyramids/rushbuying. If you don't want pyramids, you could always tech to democracy.
In the early days of Deity Culture (before quick/Great Artists became the fad) the prevailing strategy was pyramids/rushbuying. If you don't want pyramids, you could always tech to democracy.
I do not like to risk religions distribution - this has already slaughtered a couple of great starts for me in due time.
In BtS AI on higher levels issues a plague of missionaries once founding a religion to religion-less nations; obtaining others later thus might be extremely troublesome unless you're the founder, and late-game conquest is highly infeasible.
Maybe Praetorians?
In BtS AI on higher levels issues a plague of missionaries once founding a religion to religion-less nations; obtaining others later thus might be extremely troublesome unless you're the founder, and late-game conquest is highly infeasible.
Maybe Praetorians?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Well, I've tried 4 times now and it always goes about the same. Miss every religion by 1 turn. Miss every wonder by 1 turn and depending on the map type; total annihilation or a cultural victory by someone else in the early 1900s.
AnitaGaribaldi
Warlord
I tried two times. The first time I survived to the end but I lost because an AI shot to space. I researched far too slow, I got few GP, no way I could win that game. On the second game I researched much faster, I was near from bulbing Philo before 800 BC but one AI decided to attack me. A stack of more or less 10 units (axes, swordsman and chariots) against my lonely warrior per city.... I quit that moment.
Infantry#14
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
Hmm...the problems for my games are that I either get box in very quick by all the ai and cant make more than 2 good cities or I dont start with a food source! ( I have been playing on oasis maps and i dont know how to use mapfinder.)
It's nice to practice on less difficult settings (still deity, but try the tiny map w/ 3 ai); I learn the in-and-outs for deity ancient tiny maps, and the small map just require a little more precision.
I think the ai to play against in this gaunlet are the American leaders. Good old Abe and his predecessor and successor are good allies and they are too righteous to pick on smaller foe. For the wild card 4th leader, why not the "Native" American leader Sitting Bull?
It's nice to practice on less difficult settings (still deity, but try the tiny map w/ 3 ai); I learn the in-and-outs for deity ancient tiny maps, and the small map just require a little more precision.
I think the ai to play against in this gaunlet are the American leaders. Good old Abe and his predecessor and successor are good allies and they are too righteous to pick on smaller foe. For the wild card 4th leader, why not the "Native" American leader Sitting Bull?
AnitaGaribaldi
Warlord
Roosevelt declared war on me, but I guess the Americans are quite peaceful.
Spoiler :
The first game I tried archipelago/low sea levels/snaky continents and I got a small piece of land big enough for 6-7 cities. The AI was near me, but not on my landmass, so it needed to build a boat before settling. My economy was a mess and I could not trade well. The second game I tried inland sea, I could build the cities but Roosevelt...
The third game I tried Pangaea and I got boxed before settling the second city. I could just settle two more cities not on good places. Now, I'm back to inland sea again. I'm planning what to do with a gold and marble start on my BFC. I might try to build Parthenon.On the philo/non-philo debate, my theory is fast GS have more value on this speed as they accelerate FS, which is critical path for 2nd legendary city. I plan to pop 2 - 1 to bulb Philo and one for academy, and perhaps a third for edu depending on how good my 2nd cottage city is. To get them asap I will be philo.
I am trying with BTS Gandhi. Spiritual is not as good in BTS. Golden Ages deprive it of half its value. Maybe it's time to go back to old Lizzy.
Pious_Pete
Warlord
Hey guys´n´gals, I need a bit of advice.
I follow godonut´s strategy, and normally get wins around 1700. However, I´ve tried this challenge twice now, and lost twice in the 1400s. Clearly I need to up my game a bit.
(BTW. I am playing vanilla, elizabeth, inland sea vs gandhi, hatty, cyrus, and mansa).
A specific question I have is what to do when I get Alphabet. Usually I beat all the AI to this. They usually have plenty of techs to trade, but I have nothing to offer other than alphabet. Should I trade alphabet, or should I research to drama, say, and trade that?
I usually trade away alphabet since all the other techs on offer are just too tempting; but this does seem to mean that the AIs then trade away techs with each other with a vengence and I struggle to keep up.
(BTW. I´m not necessarily looking for a super-fast win - just to beat the AI would keep me happy).
I follow godonut´s strategy, and normally get wins around 1700. However, I´ve tried this challenge twice now, and lost twice in the 1400s. Clearly I need to up my game a bit.
(BTW. I am playing vanilla, elizabeth, inland sea vs gandhi, hatty, cyrus, and mansa).
A specific question I have is what to do when I get Alphabet. Usually I beat all the AI to this. They usually have plenty of techs to trade, but I have nothing to offer other than alphabet. Should I trade alphabet, or should I research to drama, say, and trade that?
I usually trade away alphabet since all the other techs on offer are just too tempting; but this does seem to mean that the AIs then trade away techs with each other with a vengence and I struggle to keep up.
(BTW. I´m not necessarily looking for a super-fast win - just to beat the AI would keep me happy).
Pious_Pete
Warlord
Further to my previous post, I also have a question about the optimal time to build cities five and six.
I don´t usually struggle to get my six cities founded. I have four cities fairly early (3 legendary cities & a GP farm) and later I don´t normally have any problem squeezing two more in.
My question is, when should I squeeze these in? At the moment, I hold off doing this as long as possible until just before I switch to US and start the buying religious buildings phase. My reasoning is that a) I want to avoid the additional maintenence costs and b) the cities are usually sub-optimal and I end up buying all the temples in them, so there is not much value in getting them much earlier.
Is this reasoning sound, or should I be approaching this question differently?
I don´t usually struggle to get my six cities founded. I have four cities fairly early (3 legendary cities & a GP farm) and later I don´t normally have any problem squeezing two more in.
My question is, when should I squeeze these in? At the moment, I hold off doing this as long as possible until just before I switch to US and start the buying religious buildings phase. My reasoning is that a) I want to avoid the additional maintenence costs and b) the cities are usually sub-optimal and I end up buying all the temples in them, so there is not much value in getting them much earlier.
Is this reasoning sound, or should I be approaching this question differently?
How are you losing the game in the 1400s?
RE: cities 5 and 6...don't build them ever. On a small map, you only need 2 temples per cathedral. With 7 religions, you should be able to make 14 cathedrals work. Even 10 or 12 cathedrals is probably enough.
RE: cities 5 and 6...don't build them ever. On a small map, you only need 2 temples per cathedral. With 7 religions, you should be able to make 14 cathedrals work. Even 10 or 12 cathedrals is probably enough.
Pious_Pete
Warlord
At present, I use the GE from the pyramids to build the GL. I then use 3 GSs to build 3 Acadamy´s in the legendary cities.
I´m not entirely convinced this is worth it. The cultural benefits of the acadamy (+4) are nice to have, but not necessarily worth the expense of a GE, and teching to lit. The +50% science is of course a big bonus, but I seem to be getting my GSs quite late. Indeed, I´m often reasearching Edu/Lib by the time the third one comes, when I´m beginning to think about switching research off.
Another problem with the GL, is that often (not always) I end up getting a fourth GS when what I really want is GAs i.e the GL is messing up my GA pool.
So, I have a number of questions around this.
Should I build the GL?
If I do build the GL, what should I do with the GS? Build academies, or grab new techs to trade e.g. philo, edu?
How should I maximise GS production? Should I have as many scientists in as many cities as possible, or should I concentrate on only having as many scientists as possible in the city with the GL?
If I should build the GL, but the AI beats me to it, is it worth perservering with the game or should I start again?
If I don´t build the GL, what should I do with the GE?
Also, in the city which has the pyramids (which is usually the capital), should I use additional scientists (either before or after the first GE has popped). What I am getting at is should I be trying to preserve the purity of the GE gene pool in the hope of getting a second GE (for the taj majal say), or should I be throwing as much effort at research as possible as early as possible in the game?
I´m not entirely convinced this is worth it. The cultural benefits of the acadamy (+4) are nice to have, but not necessarily worth the expense of a GE, and teching to lit. The +50% science is of course a big bonus, but I seem to be getting my GSs quite late. Indeed, I´m often reasearching Edu/Lib by the time the third one comes, when I´m beginning to think about switching research off.
Another problem with the GL, is that often (not always) I end up getting a fourth GS when what I really want is GAs i.e the GL is messing up my GA pool.
So, I have a number of questions around this.
Should I build the GL?
If I do build the GL, what should I do with the GS? Build academies, or grab new techs to trade e.g. philo, edu?
How should I maximise GS production? Should I have as many scientists in as many cities as possible, or should I concentrate on only having as many scientists as possible in the city with the GL?
If I should build the GL, but the AI beats me to it, is it worth perservering with the game or should I start again?
If I don´t build the GL, what should I do with the GE?
Also, in the city which has the pyramids (which is usually the capital), should I use additional scientists (either before or after the first GE has popped). What I am getting at is should I be trying to preserve the purity of the GE gene pool in the hope of getting a second GE (for the taj majal say), or should I be throwing as much effort at research as possible as early as possible in the game?
Pious_Pete
Warlord
The first time was a space race victory (Cyrus I think, but I´m not quite sure).
The second time was diplo win in 1480 for Cyrus.
Pious_Pete
Warlord
This sounds like a key piece of advice. I will definitely try this in my next game. In fact, if my wife wasn´t giving me withering looks which signify "you´re spending far too much time on that damn game again, why can´t we go shopping", I´d try again right now
Spreading the religions and building temples in all six cities does seem to drag on for a bit (especially when you get into a losing streak with failures of religion to spread!)
Pious_Pete
Warlord
This reply to a previous post pre-empted my next question, which I was in the process of composing (not that I am complaining you understand).
But my question is essentially, how long should you go on building cathedrals for?
If a new religion spreads to you six turns before you are about to get your cultural win, then obviously you wouldn´t even stop to consider stopping to build more religious buildings.
But say that you have four cities and six religions, which I believe means that you can build 12 cathedrals. Would you always build all the cathedrals that you can? If you don´t have access to the special resource for the cathedral (marble say), it can drag on a bit before you´ve got enough dosh to buy two more cathedrals. Is this time always well spent?
(I appreciate this might be a bit of a nonsense question if you only have 4 cities. I´m really prompted to ask it in the context of my experiences with six cities, where my cathedral building can drag on to the 1500 and the AI is well on the way to building the spaceship. Hopefully just building four cities brings the time-line forward so that it is a non-question).
Nonsense or not, I can´t help asking a supplemental question, since it is one that always causes me anguish when it occurs.
Suppose you have built all your cathedrals and have embarked down the final straight of accumulating culture a.s.a.p and then another religion spreads to you. How do you judge whether it is worth another round of missionary/temple/cathedral building?
If all other cathedrals are built, it's probably too late, but what you need to try to calculate is how much culture you lose because you have to generate cash and compare it to the extra culture you get from the cathedrals. Or, if you're not rushbuying, then you have to see how painful it is to work the mines and build it instead of building culture and/or running Artist specialists. It takes a bit of guesswork/intuition. I find that the most important number to know is the turn you plan to win.
Your other question: building all cathedrals. I usually don't get the ones built that require a resouce I don't have--maybe one of the two. However, that's in quick culture games where there isn't time to rush-buy. With rushbuying, you WANT to buy those missing-resource cathedrals. They cost the same! I guess a better way to say it is: You don't want to buy cathedrals when you do have the resource.
Your other question: building all cathedrals. I usually don't get the ones built that require a resouce I don't have--maybe one of the two. However, that's in quick culture games where there isn't time to rush-buy. With rushbuying, you WANT to buy those missing-resource cathedrals. They cost the same! I guess a better way to say it is: You don't want to buy cathedrals when you do have the resource.
Pious_Pete
Warlord
If you are building four cities, should the GA farm be one of the legendary cities?
If the GA is to be one of the legendary cities, do you rely solely on the culture from the artists (plus religious buildings etc), or do you throw in cottages as well i.e. do you irrigate or cottage grasslands?
If the GA is to be one of the legendary cities, do you rely solely on the culture from the artists (plus religious buildings etc), or do you throw in cottages as well i.e. do you irrigate or cottage grasslands?
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