G-Major 29

[Pious_Pete]

If all other cathedrals are built, it's probably too late... It takes a bit of guesswork/intuition.

Intuitively (based on my experiences with six city games) I would hazard a rule of thumb that says if a religion spreads before you have built all the other cathedrals, build cathedrals for the new religion as well; but if you have built all the other cathedrals already, don´t bother with the new religion...

... it´s just that it´s just so tempting to try and squeeze a bit more culture out from a few more cathedrals. Maybe I´m just too greedy .

 

[WastinTime]

If you are building four cities, should the GA farm be one of the legendary cities?

If the GA is to be one of the legendary cities, do you rely solely on the culture from the artists (plus religious buildings etc), or do you throw in cottages as well i.e. do you irrigate or cottage grasslands?

Your super GA farm (with the National Epic) can't waste citizens on cottages. Just food and artists. You probably won't touch grassland. It's not very efficient, just 1 extra food. Try to find corn, pigs, flood plains, etc.

This city is usually the 3rd legendary. It will require 9-10 Great Artist culture bombs, give or take. I don't know exactly how many cus I don't play normal speed.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Your other question: building all cathedrals. I usually don't get the ones built that require a resouce I don't have--maybe one of the two. However, that's in quick culture games where there isn't time to rush-buy. With rushbuying, you WANT to buy those missing-resource cathedrals. They cost the same! I guess a better way to say it is: You don't want to buy cathedrals when you do have the resource.

This sounds like another key piece of advice. If I´ve understood you correctly:-

a) In quick games, build cathedrals for which you have the resource, but don´t bother with those for which you don´t.

b) In normal games, build cathedrals for which you have the resource, and rush-buy the cathedrals for which you don´t. I can do that.

BTW. I assume that the "normal rule" applies to epic and marathon as well, or would you even consider rush buying resourced-cathdrals in these games?

 

[WastinTime]

... it´s just that it´s just so tempting to try and squeeze a bit more culture out from a few more cathedrals. Maybe I´m just too greedy .

Another important factor is if you have 1 city that is lagging. Generating cash for X turns is a culture loss to all cities, but the new cathedral only goes into 1 city. It helps to know if 1 city really needs that boost. To know that, you really need to figure out how many extra artist bombs you have to aid that lagging city.

But you're rule of thumb is good. If it's so early that you're still building other cathedrals, you should probably add the new ones.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Your super GA farm (with the National Epic) can't waste citizens on cottages. Just food and artists. You probably won't touch grassland. It's not very efficient, just 1 extra food. Try to find corn, pigs, flood plains, etc.

This city is usually the 3rd legendary. It will require 9-10 Great Artist culture bombs, give or take. I don't know exactly how many cus I don't play normal speed.

Thanks for your clear advice here.

In my heart of hearts I knew that this was the answer before I even posed the question, it´s just that I am always tempted to fiddle around with my workers trying to improve every single square. Its very helpful to have a knowledgable person confirm that you are wrong.

Of course, receiving advice and acting on advice are two different things . Let´s see what happens in the next game...

 

[WastinTime]

BTW. I assume that the "normal rule" applies to epic and marathon as well, or would you even consider rush buying resourced-cathdrals in these games?

Yea, any non-quick is the same.

Don't forget if you're spiritual, you really don't want to buy temples. Buying missionaries is always good. It's been years since I did this, but I think it made sense to even buy banks if you plan a lot of rushbuying. That advice might only be best on lower difficulty levels. At Deity, I think you can trade tech for lots of cash.

I really should play one of these before giving all this advice. Many things could have changed in BTS. I can't play until July, if at all.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Having built all my cathedrals and ramped up the culture bar, should the legendary cities continue building other edifices or should they switch to culture?

Maybe the answer is a straightforward no, but I would like to consider what type of building we are talking about.

a) Monastries. These are relatively cheap and I pretty much always complete building them if I haven´t already done so.

b) Universities. These are quite time-consuming to build. I usually do build them, but I suspect that I am wasting my time.

c) Financial buildings. (Courthouses, Market, Grocers, Banks). Since my culture bar is usually at 70%-80%, I´m often tempted to build these buildings in an attempt to push the bar up to 90%-100%. I lose 20-30 culture per turn whilst building these, but hope to get this back when the culture bar is raised. However, I suspect that this is false (over-optimistic/greedy) reasoning, especially since these are relatively time-consuming buildings to construct.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Yea, any non-quick is the same.

Don't forget if you're spiritual, you really don't want to buy temples.

This is a good piece of advice. It doesn´t apply at the moment since I´m playing Elizabeth; but I may try someone else latter - and I guess other people reading this may be using spiritual leaders.

 

[WastinTime]

It's almost always worth building the monasteries, etc unless the game is very near the end. Don't forget, if you pound these out early (before 400 AD) they will double their culture before the end of the game. (e.g. 4 culture/monastery instead of 2). That's true for every building (except the Academy for some strange reason.)

If you're philo, the universities are double speed (vanilla civ). But I usually skip these because cathedrals come first and then it gets too late.

Your culture bar is 70-80% ??!! There's your problem. I've never found a reason to ever go below 100% and I never build any of those financial buildings. Why would you with 0% gold? You should be able to trade for cash or trade resources for cash/turn. Remember, you can sell all your happy resources once you turn up the culture slider. Happy is never a problem, even if they emancipate.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Buying missionaries is always good.

This is good to know. I have been doing this to a small degree, but not systematically. I shall try to be more rigorous about doing it.

BTW. When buying missionaries, I usually wait 1 turn, because the cost comes down quite significantly, but again I suspect that time is more important than cost i.e. I should be buying straight away and damn the cost.

Also, if I´m building missionaries in my capital it often only takes 2 turns, I don´t bother rush-buying these; but again, I guess time is more important and I should be buying these straight off.

 

[Pious_Pete]

Your culture bar is 70-80% ??!! There's your problem. I've never found a reason to ever go below 100% and I never build any of those financial buildings. Why would you with 0% gold? You should be able to trade for cash or trade resources for cash/turn.

O.K. I need to have a look at what is going on here.

A contributory factor maybe the six cities. If I switch to 4, the maintenance costs will come down.

I am trading resources, but not all of my opponents seem to have the cash to trade. Perhaps I should consider playing with more opponents?

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

Another problem with the GL, is that often (not always) I end up getting a fourth GS when what I really want is GAs i.e the GL is messing up my GA pool.

So, I have a number of questions around this.

Should I build the GL?

If I do build the GL, what should I do with the GS? Build academies, or grab new techs to trade e.g. philo, edu?

How should I maximise GS production? Should I have as many scientists in as many cities as possible, or should I concentrate on only having as many scientists as possible in the city with the GL?

If I should build the GL, but the AI beats me to it, is it worth perservering with the game or should I start again?

If I don´t build the GL, what should I do with the GE?

I am still trying to win this but I never build the GL in my cultural game. Not even on Settler. You can use the GE to rush National Wonders: National Epic or Globe Theater. Sometimes the perfect GP far is on a terrain with little production and the GE might help you get those GP faster. The Globe Theater allows three artists specialists, so you will still have one good GA farm even if the UN votes emancipation for all civs. This is painful for me because I cannot defy resolutions on Warlords.

 

[WastinTime]

A contributory factor maybe the six cities. If I switch to 4, the maintenance costs will come down.

I am trading resources, but not all of my opponents seem to have the cash to trade. Perhaps I should consider playing with more opponents?

Your intuition is solid here. I'd bet the six cities is the problem. And playing w/ more opponents is a wise thing to consider for exactly the reason you pointed out. The only problem with that is running out of land. If you can grab enough land, then an extra opponent or two is nice.

 

[WastinTime]

BTW. When buying missionaries, I usually wait 1 turn, because the cost comes down quite significantly, but again I suspect that time is more important than cost i.e. I should be buying straight away and damn the cost.

Also, if I´m building missionaries in my capital it often only takes 2 turns, I don´t bother rush-buying these; but again, I guess time is more important and I should be buying these straight off.

Again, good intuition. You do NOT want to waste the cash buying on turn 1. In your capitol, where it's only 2 turns, you still want to buy the rest on turn 2. Why would you do that if it would get built next turn anyway? Because you get a nice big overflow of hammers for the next build.

 

[Pious_Pete]

My final question concerns the start position.

I am using map-finder to find start positions with stone and then manual browsing to choose the map to use, but I´m not totally sure what I should be giving priority to.

Oddly enough, I don´t necessarily give priority to stuff that might make an exceptional cultural city (cottaged grassland, floodplains etc) since I usually find that, short of settling in the middle of tundra, the capital city is usually the lead cultural city anyway, so there is no need to over-egg it.

I tend to look for stuff that gives the city a good start (so I can get the 1st settler out quickly etc.)

My priority is usually a hills plains for the extra hammer from the outset, and then an oasis (preferably) for extra commerce whilst building the first worker (failing that a flood-plain). Ideally corn would be nice for the first improved square to have the extra boost for growth (and the extra production for the 1st settler, 2nd Worker). Lots of trees would be nice as well.

I know this is a bit of an open-ended question and there is no right answer, but any views would be appreciated.

 

[Pious_Pete]

In your capitol, where it's only 2 turns, you still want to buy the rest on turn 2. Why would you do that if would get built next turn anyway? Because you get a nice big overflow of hammers for the next build.

Oooo! I never knew that. That could help quite a bit.

 

[WastinTime]

I am using map-finder to find start positions with stone and then manual browsing to choose the map to use, but I´m not totally sure what I should be giving priority to.

Stone? Marble the the key for culture. (Nat Epic, Parthenon, Oracle, sistine chapel)
But you don't need it in your first city. I like the capitol to have a couple commerce resources (gold/gems, maybe furs). Food obviously and a lot of river.

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

Stone? Marble the the key for culture. (Nat Epic, Parthenon, Oracle, sistine chapel)
But you don't need it in your first city. I like the capitol to have a couple commerce resources (gold/gems, maybe furs). Food obviously and a lot of river.

I think it's not possible to build Parthenon, Oracle and Sistine Chapel. What wonders are the most important?

 

[jesusin]

Oh my, Pious_Pete has set the ball rolling and I am missing it! I love talking about cultural strategy.

I can believe your AIs are winning so early!

WastinTime has answered a lot of your questions. I just have the feeling that you are abusing rushbuying. Let me throw a challenge at you: play a game without Pyramids, get Liberalism around 100AD and use 100% culture from then on, no matter how few cathedrals you have built at that time. For this experimental game try a 1 food, 2 Gems start. You might get a better or a worst result, but you'll learn not to build so much and not to wait so long out of 100% culture.

Never build the GL in a cultural game.

Get 1 GS for Academy in the capital. The capital should be the engine of your research.

Get 0-3 GS for lightbulbing.

Get 10-15GA for bombing at the end. Very early ones get settled.

I normally use the GPFarm as Legendary, without a single cathedral. But, if you have the space for cities and 3 wonderful cottageable locations, maybe GPFarm not Legendary is better.

Were to use the GE? What about not building the Pyramids, but Parthenon instead?

If you are waiting so long to build cities 5 and 6 it's normal they are at marginal sites. I love having my 5th city in a fish+2FP location. At size 8 is is running 5 artists, providing 45GPPpt as a secondary GPFarm. It more than outweights its cost.

Now, nothing is perfect. Since I don't buildrushbuy anything, unless I am Spiritual instead of Financial (which delays Liberalism date) I have to build all my cities very soon in order to choose and appropriate civwide time to revolt from slavery to CS.

As for money for 100%culture, appart from selling all your happy resources, do you sell your techs for cash when you reach Liberalism?

Buildings: every building is worth it if you build it slowly and you are not in the last 10-20 turns. At the very end it is better to build culture. Just do the maths.

The best piece of advice I can give is this: know the turn you are going to win. That allows you to know how many GA you'll have and to place the Hermitage in the more powerful city without unbalancing the cities' end-date.

 

[jesusin]

I think it's not possible to build Parthenon, Oracle and Sistine Chapel. What wonders are the most important?

In BTS you should be able to build all three, only Oracle being at risk, since Parthenon is not an early WW anymore.

In Vanilla you can sometimes build both Oracle and Parthenon. I believe Sistine's isn't worth it in Vanilla.