G-Major 45

[bhavv]

Thanks for the advice, if you could help me with my Dutch attempt at this immortal space race, the info is in this thread here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7781251#post7781251

I can fit 9 coastal cities on my main island, so would statue of lib be usefull?

I got the GLH, then I'm researching Alphabet + Currency for research, wealth and marketplaces, and then want to build research to tech Metal Casting for the Collosus and Literature for Glib, and then I dont think I need any more wonders, but on Monarch I usually add the Versailles, Statue of Lib and Eifell Tower gor the Great Merchant points (Amstrdam ends up a huge commerce city with at least 5 Great Merchants added).

It is 1140 BC and I have 6 cities including the free one that Togugawa built for me (o.O, thats why I made the thread), and can place a total of 13 cities on thse three islands with a little overlap, but my next move will be going to settle another island, then Alphabet > Currency > Metal Casting > Aesthetics > Literature.

I just need the Glib and Collosus, dont think that any other wonders are too important here. I always play either Rameses for religious economy, Loius for culture, and Dutch for Archipelago, I'm terrible at anything that involves war, but I went and picked 6 Agg foes hoping that they will fight each other and I can keep my diplomatic relations going well.

I'm realising now that Darius and Fin / Org would have been a lot more useful because the Lighthouse is the first thing I am building in each city, and soon I will want courthouses too. I place a Lighthouse > Granary > Library, and then later on Courthouse and Harbor in each city. Oh, but then I wouldnt have the free border expansion, how do you pop borders on Immortal if playing as a non cultural civ? I havnt even researched Mysticism in this game, just the top and bottom lines of the tech tree. I suppose you would need stonehenge as well.

I just looked up Hannibal in the civilopedia, and yea, that civ plus stonehenge would be better, you get +1 trade route per city early on with the UB, but no Dykes .

I will try Hannibal and Darius in my future games.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

SoL is probably ok with 9 cities, I had 5 on my continent. (EDIT: Nope, I had 6)

I got the GLib but I went aesthetics and literature straight after alphabet I think. I also settled a fairly lame city just to claim marble for it. Currency isn't that important because you get 2 trade routes from TGL.

I didn't get the colossus it obsoletes at a tech you want ASAP (astro) and I was busy conquering the Dutch in my game about then I think.

EDIT: Teching first to divine right and radio (for Versailles/Eiffel tower) is going to be a challenge as well unless you neglect other key techs. Also, if you are first to radio I'd go for Chrsito Redentor instead of the Tower.

Darius is good but I would want a land map for Immortal rush for him..

EDIT: I didn't get stonehenge with Hannibal, monuments are cheap enough and I went straight for sailing/masonry for GLH and bronze working for chopping and mining hills with trees on. I think you need to control your wonder grabbing tendencies at Immortal

I probably would play Willem if I tried an archipelago again but I alrady have a win with him and am trying to use all the civs. I haven't got an archipelago map yet but have been refining my Hannibal strat for a long time with no success as I moved up from Emperor to Immortal so I thought I would try that again this time... and 9 turns away is the nearest I have been so far Previous best was when Liz won a cultural before I could vassalise/wipe out Monty for a UN win.

I think I am going to try Pacal on global highlands next before going with Darius... I lost a recent Immortal game with him (Darius) on Big and Small when I had no horses (but rushed Shaka anyway with axes), was doing well (2nd in score I think and lots of nice cities) but Monty was the largest civ, then I got dogpiled by Monty, Asoka, Mansa, Joao and Shaka (who I had reduced to 2 or 3 small citis by then), game over (well, I gave up after losing 3 cities to enormous stacks of cannon, muskets and knights with grenadiers starting to appear when all I had was rifles and trebs, and nowhere near enough of them).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Ah, I remember why I have been playing archipelago maps now. I always play with barbs on and they are a nightmare at marathon speed at this level

 

[PaulisKhan]

A piece of advice learned from hard experience. If you fill your game with aggressive Civs, the person they dogpile will be YOU.

You simply can't support enough military troops to scare anyone away, and once those warmongers get a hold of you, they'll never let up.
Much of getting a good finish date is based on tech trading with the AI, you can not do this effectively if you are constantly worried about annoying warring civs.
Best chance is to pick friendly civs and play on a map where you can contact them all early before they form up into a buddybuddy club and leave you out in the cold.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That wouldn't be much fun then

I fill my games with random civs... The dogpile game was a non-gauntlet game anyway with a random leader and it gave me Darius with no horses except far away right next to Monty. Immortal rushing Shaka would probably not have been wise anyway, although iit turned out he had no metals only horses and jumbos so I just built lots of spears to go with my axes of evil.

It was fun until I got dogpiled by everyone, crippled Shaka early, got a juicy holy city from Asoka. Problem was diplo aggravation and Asoka vassalising to Monty after I attacked Asoka again after Monty DoW'd him. I probably should have attacked Monty instead when he DoW'd Asoka I suppose but when I had the holy city it all looked hunky dory.

 

[PaulisKhan]

That wouldn't be much fun then

I fill my games with random civs... The dogpile game was a non-gauntlet game anyway with a random leader and it gave me Darius with no horses except far away right next to Monty. Immortal rushing Shaka would probably not have been wise anyway, although iit turned out he had no metals only horses and jumbos so I just built lots of spears to go with my axes of evil.

It was fun until I got dogpiled by everyone, crippled Shaka early, got a juicy holy city from Asoka. Problem was diplo aggravation and Asoka vassalising to Monty after I attacked Asoka again after Monty DoW'd him. I probably should have attacked Monty instead when he DoW'd Asoka I suppose but when I had the holy city it all looked hunky dory.

haha ok, fair enough. Sounds like an interesting game with Shaka and Monty to deal with. Poor Asoka.
When I'm playing a game just to enjoy the civ experience I keep everything on random too. I guess I draw a pretty strong distinguishing line between my HoF games and my single player "fun time" games.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm sure I will go more HoF style when I fill my board up with maps and civs. I'd like to fill the QM board completely with barbs on games but deity level might be hard then unless I Quechua rush on a duel map But I already have a major gauntlet with Inca.

EDIT: I play all my games with the HoF mod and submit all my wins, only 20 so far

 

[bhavv]

In my game, the AI is dogpiling Hammurabi, but him, Boudica, Togugawa and me are all using hinduism, its just Alexander and Shaka going crazy on Ham. The only problem is the -4 'You traded with our worst enemies' drawback with hammurabi.

It is easy to play Agg civs against each other. Follow the most popular religion, on lower difficulty levels you would spread your own, but here you have to go with the flow. Give in to all demads - when they want a tech hand it over. Never save up lumps of gold in case they want that as well, if you manage to sell a tech for a high price, boost your to 100% for a few turns to use it up before anyone demands it.

After meeting the demands and tributes, you shouldnt be anyones worst enemy and they go crazy killing each other off while I sit protected by a defensive pact with Boudica - I have all green points with her, if she asks to stop trading then I have to give in. Later in the game I have a powerful protector as soon as I can sign defensive pacts.

This is my current game:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3126/civ4screenshot0053lz5.jpg

Its 525 AD, and I am racing for Liberalism. I dont know if I will be able to use it to pick up Astronomy though, I normally tech to but not including Astronomy, then race to liberalism and spam Universities and Astonomies in every city.

I currently have 14 cities and have moved up to third position, with a healthy economy fueled by selling techs, but I doubt I will be winning before 1600 AD as this is my first serious Space race attempt, but I am aiming for a win before 1700 AD.

I have circled my future city locations, I will be able to place at least 19 cities, lots with land tile overlaps, but I will be using sea squares anyway. Middleburg is going to become my Moai city soon once the basic things are in place, and my capital will be cottaged with both Oxford Uni and Wall Street, I have nearly popped my second Great Merchant, then I will try and get a few Great Scientists using Pacifism.

Hopefully by 800 AD I will have 20 cities placed with the basics met - worked tiles, Granary, Lighthouse, Lib and Courthouse, then I'll try tech for the workshop things and use them with research for my first time ever =D.

I am a space race / workshop newb, I nomally just win from culture too eailly, I suppose that Immortal is where culture doesnt work so it gives you a chance for a space victory.

lol, shaka just declared on me. Oh damn, game over

I'll restart with peaceful civs now, but need to get another good map. Not fair that you cant use Inca. IND, FIN, and Quecha rush at the start would be awesome =D. They have a sucky UB though.

 

[PaulisKhan]

yeah Inca are nice for this kinda thing. I'm learning to love Darius too, although he has a greater number of failed starts in my limited experience (ie, 3 neighbours all with copper in their BFC and no horses in my own can make it painful to try and rush them).
Quecha rush is much less dependent on resource distribution.

 

[bhavv]

I just got the god of all maps for my next attempt, this time I'm playing as Peter and have all peaceful Civs:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5531/civ4screenshot0054sb6.jpg

Immortal standard archipelago map with low sea levels, peaceful Civs, and I got spawned on a huge snaky island with no AI civs =D

I managed to get 12 cities up by 1 AD, and the Germans have placed a city on the north, and Indians have settled two or three on the eastern tip, but I managed to secure most of the Island and have a few places left to fill.

The map island has both Marble and Stone, but they both take a while to get to, and Gems, Gold and Ivory for lux resources. I managed to get both the GLH and Glib, and am now teching for Notre Dame and War Elephants, plus I got the scientific test subjects random event giving +2 health in each city. I just want to use enough War Elephants to ensure my protection and capture the German and Indian cities on my island, maybe if I have enough resources I can try a little conquering too. I'll devote 4 citeis temporarilly to military with Barracks and Stables and create a decent force of around 15-20 elephants and see how much I can conquer.

I am playing as Peter on this one so now I have +4 health in each city with EXP and the event, GLH and Glib in my Capital with a philo leader, and am going to try and add Notre Dame, National Epic, Oxford, Statue of Lib and Eifell Tower later on. I already spawned two Great Merchants in the BC's and added them for +2 food and +12 gold per turn, and now I am keeping 2 scientist specialists plus the 2 Glib free ones in the city to hopefully spawn lots of Great Scientists and will swicth to Pacifism as soon as I can. if I manage to complete Notre Dame I hope I wont go and start getting Great Artists instead, I just want Scientists now, and dont mind more merchants (they help to create a super sized city, the more you add the better =D)

There are two clams and a Cow in the capital too, and the rest of the land squares all had a forest on them, so I got to chop them for the two wonders, plus there are some left over for Notre Dame. I should also be able to keep lots of scientist specialists in there through out the game, but I cant use Caste system yet though, I'm still whipping Granary > Library > Lighthouse in each city, Im not building any monuments for culture pops, I will just use libraries instead.

I feel like restarting to spread my cities out two sites apart, and to head for the north and east first instead lacing any at the south, but I will keep going with this and then try it again after completing it once. Unless of course someone declares war on me while I have a single warrior in each city lol.

I need to modify my INI file to load HOF all the time, I like it because it stops me from cheating and I have to try and play without any mistakes =D

Now to hope I can get as far as setting up a workshop economy before anyone declares on me again. I had a lot of failed starts before this map, I kept on getting shared islands, then ones which were too small or without enough resources. I ended up learning to explore each map with the settler and scout before deciding whether I wanted to play it or not.

Edit - Capital has 3 clams and a cow, not just two. I only have two of them worked because I havnt even exceeded size 6 yet from whipping lots of settlers.

I just had to trade away Metal Casting for Calender and a lousy 20 gold which was the best offer I could find. I needed Calender to hook up my bananas, but am focusing my research on Notre Dame so didnt research it myself. I also need something to trade for Beurocracy, but no one has it yet and I couldnt wait because my cities need their resources worked.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I submitted at 1760AD win with Darius. All was going well, took out Victoria and most of Lizzie with my Immortals and expanded to 13 cities and headed for the end.

I had a DP with Asoka (who was the best of the AI), which was great and tehn Frederick came looking for a DP as well, I thought why not and 2 turns later Asoka declares on him and I end up having to declare on Asoka and his 2 vassals. I ended up losing 2 great cities and 2 space parts so I can defiantely get a better time for this. Don't know whether to try again with Darius or try someone else (Willem, Ramsses and Julius I neeed for EQM).

The early warring did hamper my wonder building. I only built Pyramids, Hanging Garden, Christo Redentor from memory. I also made many mistakes in my tech path (I could have Great Library if I headed for Aesthetics earlier, I went for Machinery for some reason and I tried for the free GM from Economics instead of heading further into the tree and trading back.)

 

[PaulisKhan]

I'm trying again with a less aggressive expansion at the start, will try and keep my economy in better condition throughtout the game, try and pick up a couple of wonders this time (GLib and Mids mostly), and just expand my territory once I can develop it properly.
Currently trying to claim all the land in my area now (wiped out two civs and am expanding to fill the void). If I can pick up those two wonders and prevent the AI from sneaking into my land I'm confident I knock another 100 years off my previous game.
Sticking with Darius, apothocary still gets a lot of love from me.

 

[Ozbenno]

Sticking with Darius, apothocary still gets a lot of love from me.

Not to mention Immortals, Financial and Organised

 

[bestje]

I'm confident I knock another 100 years off my previous game.
Sticking with Darius, apothocary still gets a lot of love from me.

trying another game! you think you can finish faster!

you are already about 200 years faster than my attempt, tho in my defence I only built one city but even so space in the 1400s on immortal! thats amazing if you can pull it off

 

[Dynamic]

I have never played Immortal and Darius but I think 1400AD is normal date for Space Colony and, may be, 1300AD is also available.

 

[bestje]

I have never played Immortal and Darius but I think 1400AD is normal date for Space Colony and, may be, 1300AD is also available.

1600s is the currently entered best date for immortal

 

[Dynamic]

1600s is the currently entered best date for immortal

I know. But PaulisKhan already improved it by 100 years and his next game will improve more.

The most of best dates for Space Colony isn't really the best because it isn't popular victory and a few strong player tryed to improve it.

I have played on Settler and Monarch levels - it's not enough for prediction of Immortal and Deity dates so may be I'm wrong.

I'll try this gauntlet in any case but may be I'll finish it out of date.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I've started my 2nd attempt, at 1000BC at the moment. I have joined the Darius fan club as well, playing Global Highlands (need this map for QM). I'm on a huge continent with just Washington to the far North through jungle, Shaka and Saladin are around too reachable by galleys.

Have marble and horses in capital BFC, already working 2 cottages for 5 commerce, have 2 more cities.

Washington is too far away to rush with immortals but since I play with barbs on they built a city in the spot I was going for next so they will get some action.

Should be able to get the Parthenon, 41 turns to go but have a forest pre-chopped which I'll finish off in 11 turns after I get maths, then it's on to literature to chop the great library.

Aim is to use parthenon and glib to get an early liberalism and then use a tech lead to take out Washington leaving me a huge continent to myself although I expect Shaka will settle a few cities north of Washington.

EDIT: That game was going really well, got the Parthenon, Great Library before 400BC. Until Shaka landed 6 swordsmen after sailing for miles and took 2 of my cities without taking any losses. He was pleased at +7

Try again I suppose.

 

[Jbourne]

I've started my 2nd attempt, at 1000BC at the moment. I have joined the Darius fan club as well, playing Global Highlands (need this map for QM). I'm on a huge continent with just Washington to the far North through jungle, Shaka and Saladin are around too reachable by galleys.

Have marble and horses in capital BFC, already working 2 cottages for 5 commerce, have 2 more cities.

Washington is too far away to rush with immortals but since I play with barbs on they built a city in the spot I was going for next so they will get some action.

Should be able to get the Parthenon, 41 turns to go but have a forest pre-chopped which I'll finish off in 11 turns after I get maths, then it's on to literature to chop the great library.

Aim is to use parthenon and glib to get an early liberalism and then use a tech lead to take out Washington leaving me a huge continent to myself although I expect Shaka will settle a few cities north of Washington.

EDIT: That game was going really well, got the Parthenon, Great Library before 400BC. Until Shaka landed 6 swordsmen after sailing for miles and took 2 of my cities without taking any losses. He was pleased at +7

Try again I suppose.

You invited shaka for a Gauntlet. That just make no sense at all. Was Monty, Toku, ganghis and Ragnar in it too?

I appologize for the rudeness but do you not want to win the gauntlet? They are programmed to build units and that will lead to them getting powerful and you looking like a trophie to take unless you are also building units. Then you are not teching fast and building infrastructure. (This is the space game no?)

 

[PaulisKhan]

Bleh, diplomatic disaster in my game, forgot to open borders with Isabel so I was her only legitimate land target and since there were still 3 active religions in the world this time (I usually try and wipe a couple out) I couldn't adopt hers to keep her happy.
Despite some incredible land I couldn't keep enough people happy to stay out of wars, despite their mostly peaceful natures.
She declared and then bribed another AI into war with me, I could have dealt with her alone but I'm being set up for a classic dogpile.
I'll try for another map where I'm not sharing borders with 6 AI with 3 different religions between them.