G-Major 55

[Sun Tzu Wu]

If I recall, warlords conquistadors have the same base strength as cataphracts, have a bonus against melee units, and are enabled by the same tech. Am I missing something??

WL's Conquistadors are a good choice for this gauntlet. They are Strength 10 in WL, but they have a +50% Melee bonus which dulls their primary counter, the Pikeman. (In BtS, Conquistadors are Strength 12 in BtS and based on the Cuirassier rather than the Knight).

Time permitting, I'll give WL's Conquistadors a try.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[pnp_dredd]

Never won on Diety, however I'm gonna try Keshiks for Fun:
6 strength
2 movement
50 cost
Require: Horseback Riding, Archery, Horse
Unique unit for Mongolia; Replaces Horse Archer
1 first strike
Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
Ignores terrain movement costs
+50% attack vs. Catapult and Trebuchet
Can withdraw from combat (20% chance)
Flank attack vs. Catapults and Trebuchets

Ghengis is aggressive and imperialistic; useful to get a couple of cities with barracks, and for farming Great Generals for a super-mdeic and then 2-promo units.

I'll have to find a start with GL gems to help me tech to HBR/archery.

With Flanking I and II promotions can I plan on losing only 2 Keshiks per spearman?

 

[Ozbenno]

Problem with Keshiks is that on quick speed, the AI will get longbows too quickly. Keshiks can survive against spears and archers with minimal casualties but not longbows.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

So, if the quick speed means that UU's become obsolete fast...

Could someone like tokugawa be good? samurai are good, but with gunpowder, he'll be making units with combat 1, drill 1 + another promotion out of the gate.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

So, if the quick speed means that UU's become obsolete fast...

The A Comprehensive Unique Unit Guide can help one decide which later Era unique unit to use.

Could someone like tokugawa be good? samurai are good, but with gunpowder, he'll be making units with combat 1, drill 1 + another promotion out of the gate.

The Samurai is another unique unit that should work well for this Gauntlet. The Samurai's two first strikes is awesome against any unit that doesn't ignore first strikes. However, the Samurai's two first strikes are a feature of the unit itself and not a result of free Drill promotions. Thus, when one upgrades a Samurai, the unit loses the two first strikes.

Gunpowder units may be better. The Ottomans' Janissary (maybe Renaissance Era start) and England's Redcoat (probably Industrial Era start) both look great and both units can be drafted (need to get Nationalism for the Renaissance Era start though).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shyuhe]

There was an old emperor domination starting in the renaissance. Toku scored the fastest victories there. I don't think samurais will have enough shelf life in this game though.

 

[Ozbenno]

Gunpowder units may be better. The Ottomans' Janissary (maybe Renaissance Era start) and England's Redcoat (probably Industrial Era start) both look great and both units can be drafted (need to get Nationalism for the Renaissance Era start though).

Don't forget Zara's Oromo Warriors. They have drill 2 (as a promotion not ability), so with a barracks and settled GG, they can be Drill IV out of the gate, which can be pretty effective until rifles.

 

[Lexad]

Sounds like fun (hope I'll have time with all the XOTMs looming). I would, however, get a civ with decent leader and strong fast unit and target to get it from Ancient rather than the same era - you'd have developed economy and industry and get there faster than start there. In short - start as if for culture but go for military. One can get MilTrad from Liber at BCs and then pump cavalry.
I'd pick Warlords Spain or Russia or BtS Byz. BtS cuirassiers, even UU, lose to Warlords Cav. And I'm not sure curent HoF mod fixes BtS conquistador bug of not ignoring walls and castles.
Everybody can win on Modern.

 

[cabert]

Everybody can win on Modern.

tried and lost once
I'm not even as good as "everybody"
I tried justinian from the start, but got defeated by a surprise attack of cathy while I only had warriors...

edit : I got tired of the "no games submitted" and went for what I know : future start.
So now it shouldn't remain empty for too long...
Shouldn't be too hard to beat, though.

edit : I tried again a modern run on warlords, but asoka won a space race in 1908, before I was even half done.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

edit : I tried again a modern run on warlords, but asoka won a space race in 1908, before I was even half done.

You should have played Asoka. With Fast Workers, Spiritual and Organized traits how could you lose?

A Modern Era start should be very quick with Railroad and Tanks. Since the game will be Quick , you want Spiritual to avoid wasting turns with Civics changes and converting to your Religion for Organized Religion and later Theocracy. Organized is nice for the cheap Factories. You will want State Property for the extra food with Workshops and Waterwheels, so Courthouses seem rather pointless for the merger 4 Gpt savings.

On the other hand, Asoka may not be the best choice for the Modern Era.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[cabert]

IMHO phi is stronger on late game starts
org is really good for deity
+ the german tanks are a bit better
OTOH I just lost

There is another entry, better than mine (no great deed, though, I finished in 2031). No coming out?

 

[Ozbenno]

There is another entry, better than mine (no great deed, though, I finished in 2031). No coming out?

Not me but I'm going to attempt an Asoka Modern start this weekend. Not very hopeful of success though

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Not me but I'm going to attempt an Asoka Modern start this weekend. Not very hopeful of success though

Settlers: Be sure to build several Settlers in the first five turns or so. You will be very happy you did when you start pumping out 1 Tank per turn per City. I'd build at least 3 Settlers at the very beginning. That's 6 Tanks per turn once your Cities add about 5-7 Population with Heavy Food and Heavy Hammer Plots (You'll need to be very efficient to get 1 Tank/turn, but it will become quite easy after the City's Population increases a bit more). Maybe more than three additional Settlers, space permitting.

Workers: You'll also want to build a large number of Workers very early to build Farms, Mines, Workshops, Waterwheels, Railroads, etc. Use Serfdom to really get Work done fast! Hint: A Corn Farm on Grassland produces 7 Food/turn!

Missionaries: Spread your Religion ASAP to all your Ciites to gain the full effect of Organized Religion early on and Theocracy once Tank production is in full swing.

Civics: Universal Suffrage (to complete important buildings faster), Bureaucracy -> Vassalage, Serfdom (build Railroads, Mines, Forest Chops and similar smaller Worker tasks in 1t), [EDIT] Mercantilism -> State Property (extra Food for Workshops and Waterwheels; Constant 8 Gpt City maintenance; 4 Gpt with Courthouse) Organized Religion -> Theocracy.

9/10 Tanks: With Barracks, The Pentagon, Vassalage, Theocracy each Tank will start with 9 Experience points. Use your first Great Engineer to build most of The Pentagon in the Capital while still running Bureaucracy.

Be sure to review the G-Major 21 thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=260585

There's no single post that outlines the successful Strategy, but its all there scattered over ten pages. Only expect to conquer a Large Map significantly later than G-Major's Standard Map. My post has turned into a mini-strategy guide, but it doesn't include all the important tips that the above thread contains.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shyuhe]

If you're going the modern route, Pentagon is not worth building. Turn off research as soon as you start and just go to town on the AI using tanks. I'm debating playing my modern era run on warlords to avoid anti-tanks. Those things are super annoying. Also, do not underestimate environmentalism.

Hoping to do a modern era run this weekend and maybe a renaissance one as well. The ancient era attempt will have to wait...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I just corrected a Major omission in post #53:

Mercantilism -> State Property

Early Mercantilism is critical to have so an Engineer can be hired while working the maximum tiles in each City.

If you're going the modern route, Pentagon is not worth building. Turn off research as soon as you start and just go to town on the AI using tanks. I'm debating playing my modern era run on warlords to avoid anti-tanks. Those things are super annoying. Also, do not underestimate environmentalism.

I disagree regarding the worth of The Pentagon. Having +2 Experience for Tanks build is worth the expense of a Great Engineer and a few turns in the Capital while running Bureaucracy. It will have overwhelming value, if one chooses a Charismatic leader like Brennus. With Asoka, 9/10 Tanks will be built that are just short of three promotions. With Brennus, 9/13 Tanks will be built that are just over three promotions. However, Brennus lacks cheap Factories and much more importantly Fast Workers.

shyuhe, you are absolutely right, turn off Research! One starts with more than enough Technologies to Win. If one wants Ecology for example, to clean up ICBM hits, one can eventually get it via a Peace Treaty with a vanquished AI.

Also, Environmentalism is definitely worth considering. It definitely is cheaper than building Health buildings.

Again, for further details, please read "G-Major 21 thread".

Also, check out "On the Finer Points of Tank Warfare". This Guide does assume possession of Flight and Radio for building Bombers. One could replace Bombers with Battleships and Destroyers for bombarding Cities on a mainly Water Map. Battleships only do collateral damage to other ships though, so just add more City Raider Tanks with a Collateral Damage promotion. Or just research and/or trade for Flight and Radio.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shyuhe]

I played in G-major 21. It's why I remember most of the strategies I used. It's basically a tank spam with an occasional medic. Just prioritize hammers and the rest is logistics.

I didn't build the pentagon in G-major 21 because I always grabbed it from the AI. It's a LOT of hammers with marginal returns depending on how many base XP your units are getting. If you run theo, you get 5 XP tanks out of cities with your religion. 7 XP (pentagon) doesn't make much of a difference there. And by the time you get 2 GG to settle for 11 XP, you're generally steam rolling the AI so it doesn't make a difference. The key to the tank game is to get as many cities as you can producing a tank a turn ASAP.

I am going to try a run using units older than tanks. I'm not sure if it's feasible on quick deity but I'll give it a shot.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I managed to win in 1918AD. Had over 100 tanks by the end. My medic cavalry kept getting killed by gunships which hurt in the end game but sheer weight of numbers won out.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Well I managed to win in 1918AD. Had over 100 tanks by the end. My medic cavalry kept getting killed by gunships which hurt in the end game but sheer weight of numbers won out.

That's a Win in 69 turns! Excellent game. How close were the AI Civs to winning a Space Race Victory?

Did anyone else Win a Modern Era victory yet?

I had the same trouble with a Gunship killing my Medic3 Cavalry unit. Explorer Medics will not be as exposed to Gunship attacks in a Tank stack.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shyuhe]

Yeah I've finished a modern era game too. I think I can do better with an ancient era start though. PS. If the AI gets gunships, you may be moving too slow. I saw 0 gunships in my game. Mansa did get mech infantry in the end to no avail.

 

[Ozbenno]

Yeah I've finished a modern era game too. I think I can do better with an ancient era start though. PS. If the AI gets gunships, you may be moving too slow. I saw 0 gunships in my game. Mansa did get mech infantry in the end to no avail.

I didn't see any mech infantry. My game is in 2nd place so I assume you're responsible for #1 then?