G-Major 55

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Warlords has a huge advantage over BtS in Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern and Future Era starts. WL has just a one turn advantage in the Classical Era start.

Starting Turn#/Date advantage of WL over BtS:

Ancient Era:
WL 0000/4000 BC
BtS 0000/4000 BC

Classical Era:
WL 0032/2080 BC
BtS 0033/2020 BC

Medieval Era:
WL 0064/0510 BC
BtS 0082/0260 AD

Renaissance Era:
WL 0096/0530 AD
BtS 0122/1240 AD

Industrial Era:
WL 0128/1220 AD
BtS 0165/1700 AD

Modern Era:
WL 0160/1575 AD
BtS 0214/1888 AD

Future Era:
WL 0192/1760 AD
BtS 0264/1984 AD

Starting Conditions of the Various Eras (including Turn#/Date which is also detailed above):

Anything exclusive to WL will appear in this Dark Red font.
Anything exclusive to BtS will appear in this Dark Green font.

Ancient Era:
WL 0000/4000 BC
BtS 0000/4000 BC
Player starts with 1 Settler and 1 Warrior
Settlers found Cities that start with 1 unit of Population
No pre-built Buildings in Cities founded
Can Research all Tier 1 Technologies plus Technologies unlocked by the two Starting Technologies of the Empire being Played

Classical Era:
WL 0032/2080 BC
BtS 0033/2020 BC
Player starts with 1 Settler, 1 Archer, 1 Scout and 1 Worker
Settlers found Cities that start with 1 unit of Population
No pre-built Buildings in Cities founded
Can Research: Monarchy, Code of Laws, Theology, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Horseback Riding, Iron Working and Metal Casting
World Wonders available (WL): The Pyramids, The Great Lighthouse, The Parthenon and The Temple of Artemis
(earlier Wonders such as Stonehenge and The Oracle are not available).

Medieval Era:
WL 0064/0510 BC
BtS 0082/0260 AD
Player starts with 2 Settlers, 2 Archers, 1 Explorer and 1 Worker
Settlers found Cities that start with 1 unit of Population
pre-built Buildings: None / Granary
Can Research: Feudalism, Theology, Music, Civil Service, Philosophy, and Machinery
World Wonders available (WL): The Great Library, The Hanging Gardens and Chichen Itza

Renaissance Era:
WL 0096/0530 AD
BtS 0122/1240 AD
Player starts with 2 Settlers, 2 Longbowmen, 1 Explorer and 1 Worker
Settlers found Cities that start with 2 units of Population
pre-built Buildings: Granary, Aqueduct, Lighthouse, and Forge
Can Research: Nationalism, Education, Printing Press, Astronomy and Gunpowder
World Wonders available (WL): Angkor Wat, The Sistine Chapel, Notre Dame, The Spiral Minaret and University of Sankore

Industrial Era:
WL 0128/1220 AD
BtS 0165/1700 AD
Player starts with 3 Settlers, 3 Riflemen, 2 Explorers and 2 Workers
Settlers found Cities that start with 3 units of Population
pre-built Buildings: Granary, Aqueduct, Harbor, Lighthouse, Forge, Grocer, and Market
Can Research: Scientific Method, Steam Power and Steel
World Wonders available (WL): The Taj Mahal and The Statue of Liberty

Modern Era:
WL 0160/1575 AD
BtS 0214/1888 AD
Player starts with 3 Settlers, 3 Marines, 2 Explorers and 2 Workers
Settlers found Cities that start with 4 units of Population
pre-built Buildings: Granary, Aqueduct, Harbor, Lighthouse, Forge, Library, Market, Grocer, Bank, Courthouse and Jail
Can Research: Ecology, Flight, Plastics, Radio, Refrigeration and Rocketry
World Wonders available (WL): The Kremlin, Broadway and The Pentagon

Future Era:
WL 0192/1760 AD
BtS 0264/1984 AD
Player starts with 3 Settlers, 3 Mechanized Infantry, 2 Explorers and 3 Workers
Settlers found Cities that start with 5 units of Population
pre-built Buildings: Granary, Aqueduct, Harbor, Lighthouse, Forge, Factory, Library, Market, Grocer, Bank, Courthouse and Jail
Can Research: Future Tech / Stealth, Fusion and Genetics
World Wonders available (WL): The Eiffel Tower, Broadway, Rock N Roll, Hollywood, The Pentagon, The United Nations and The Space Elevator

Note that I checked the "World Wonders available" only in WL; I'm not sure the same list of World Wonders is available in BtS for the Eras mentioned above. No attempt was made to list National Wonders, but like World Wonders, the older National Wonders are not available in the later Eras. No attempt was made to list Projects, but nearly all of them seemed to be in the Future Era start in WL.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[cabert]

missed my first attempt.
mansa launched, while I was very busy destroying modern armor with panzers in asoka's lands.
If it had been on normal speed, I would have tried to stop the spaceship.
On quick there just was no way to get there in time.

Next try may be with warlords, or even vanilla.

 

[shyuhe]

Sounds like a fun gauntlet! Hopefully I'll have time to play this one. My first in a long time

 

[oyzar]

Problem with starting in the later eras is that it is production that is the limit not technology (especially if you get a goldmine or something). I started a game as jul on quick ancient large pangea, cap got clam + plains hill forest(that i worked to build WB) and gold and corn(not irrigated before CS though) as well as elephants in bfc. I quickly got blocked in because I grew to size 5 before building my first settler. My second city got clams + iron + shared the ivory and a hill from capital, third city got corn + copper and borrowed a lot of hills from capital as well(the capital got mostly forested hills). At turn 56 i have started capturing cities from asoka(my nearest neighbour along with mansa (I am going to steal from him probably as he is teching very fast). Asoka got henge and budhist shrine + stonehenge. I got 10 praets with 1 more next turn and 2 more the turn after that. Just finished researching col which i will shop around for math + monarchy + alpha + the remaining of the worker techs. I begged for hunting and traded for pottery+ah+sailing+writing on the way there. Tech path was AG -> bw -> iw -> wheel -> myst -> meditation -> priesthood -> col. I'll probably do construction next, then we'll see where I am headed after that. Off to a good start I think. How to get conquest instead of dom will be rough though, guess I have to caputre half the world then. Not sure what sort of units I will be using after praets. Maybe currasairs or cavalery. 2 Movement is huge on quick. I have yet to meet all civs so i am not too afraid wyftba, and even if it hits there is always mansa.

 

[cabert]

If you want to start ancient, justinian may be a good choice.
It's a bit tough, though.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

what about sitting bull? with a rax and totem pole, you can make drill I, guerilla II archers and pillage your neighbors - philo will help bulb - don't need resources for dog soldiers, so you can get a nice start and just keep it.

I've never even played deity, mind you...

 

[oyzar]

Dog soldiers and archers are not what you want when you try to win quick deity conquest. It is hard enough conquer anything with praets, with dogsoliders which are half the strength I can't imagine it would be easier.

 

[shyuhe]

Assuming a non-ancient start, the two units that come to mind are cossacks and tanks. Not sure if either will be faster than an ancient start though.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Assuming a non-ancient start, the two units that come to mind are cossacks and tanks. Not sure if either will be faster than an ancient start though.

Couldn't medieval or renaissance cataphracts have potential also?

 

[cabert]

Couldn't medieval or renaissance cataphracts have potential also?

yep : less AI cities to get, you see from the start if you have horses and iron, and thus you can regen if needed

 

[WastinTime]

How about a Viking/Berserker rush on a water map?

 

[cabert]

How about a Viking/Berserker rush on a water map?

could be good : on a watery map, there isn't much production, and the ways to bring reinforcements aren't very easy = you can see what's to fight

+ berserkers are draftable

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Couldn't medieval or renaissance cataphracts have potential also?

With a Medieval start, one needs to Research or trade for Machinery, Feudalism and Guilds. None of these Technologies will be quick to Research at Quick Speed starting with just 2 Population 1 Cities. With a Renaissance start, one just needs to build Cataphracts, but the AI Civs can just build Pikemen and will soon have Gunpowder, etc.; this all is likely to make the viability of the Cataphract rather short for the Renaissance Era Start.

The worst part of the Medieval or Renaissance start is Justinian I is only available with BtS and the starting turns for Medieval, Renaissance or later starts for BtS are hopeless later when compared to Warlords:

Medieval Era:
WL 0064/0510 BC
BtS 0082/0260 AD

Renaissance Era:
WL 0096/0530 AD
BtS 0122/1240 AD

For example, one could probably Win Warlords Modern Era with Tanks before the BtS start for Modern Era even begins:

Modern Era:
WL 0160/1575 AD
BtS 0214/1888 AD

Best option for Cataphracts is either an Ancient Era Start as cabert mentioned or a Classical Era Start where Warlords is favored over BtS by a single turn:

Classical Era:
WL 0032/2080 BC
BtS 0033/2020 BC

I'd really like to try Justinian's Cataphracts in this Gauntlet, but I don't see them as a very good fit. Very aggressive Research/Trading/War Tribute from an Ancient Era or Classical Era start seems to be the best option to get to the Horseback Riding + Guilds Techonologies needed to built Cataphracts (Knights).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shyuhe]

Warlords conquistadors are pretty awesome. They're better than cataphracts.

 

[oyzar]

Only if you can't get them before the enemy get pikes.

 

[shyuhe]

If I recall, warlords conquistadors have the same base strength as cataphracts, have a bonus against melee units, and are enabled by the same tech. Am I missing something??

 

[oyzar]

They have base strength 10.

 

[shyuhe]

Oh, shame on me It's been too long since I played warlords obviously

 

[playshogi]

I wonder which AI's are easiest to vassalize? Sury once volunteered to be my vassal and almost won the game by culture.

 

[cabert]

I wonder which AI's are easiest to vassalize? Sury once volunteered to be my vassal and almost won the game by culture.

mansa is a weakling
gandhi tends to vassalize volontarily in every game, if you don't attack his friends
other choices I tend to go with (someone should check ori's leaderchar table for better choice):
- asoka (never fails to capitulate but not the easiest)
- ramses (easy!)
- hatcheptsuh (easy!)
- lincoln
- roosevelt

I also often select isabella just because she's so stupid she's never a threat.
Not quite your question, but it's my answer

after checking the table, I'm a bit unsure of what to look at.
1) is clear, it's iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold. Those with a lower value will talk to you sooner, which is very important when you're clearly winning.
2) is unclear for me, iVassalPowerModifier has a range from -20 (mansa, gandhi, catherine, de gaulle). It seems to say that catherine would vassalize with more troops left on her side than asoka. It clearly says that genghis and sitting bull aren't the best choices for this gauntlet (50).
Alexander, JULIUS_CAESAR, JUSTINIAN, NAPOLEON and SHAKA aren't the easiest either (20).
3) another relevant issue (more so on quick, if you ask me) is iBuildUnitProb. It varies from 15 to 40. 15 is gandhi.
ASOKA, ELIZABETH, FREDERICK, HATSHEPSUT, QIN_SHI_HUANG, RAMESSES, FRANKLIN_ROOSEVELT all are at 20.
de gaulle, mansa and catherine are at 25.

After this quick glance, I'd say good candidates are
1) gandhi
2) mansa, de gaulle, catherine?
3) ASOKA, ELIZABETH, FREDERICK, HATSHEPSUT, QIN_SHI_HUANG (do you really want a prtective opponent?), RAMESSES, FRANKLIN_ROOSEVELT