G-Major I

[Martin Alvito]

Its really sad to see a player say you need to win a "game of chance" via a Ruins to have a good game, but that does seem to be the case in Civ V. This factor seems even worse in Civ V than it ever was in Civ IV.

It depends on the settings. Someone in another thread correctly pointed out that on a lower difficulty level you get a lot of ruins and you tend to get enough early pops that games are comparable. Once you get up to Emperor, the AI starts eating a lot of ruins, you get a lot fewer as a result, and there's more variance in the impact. You can

To my mind, it's the luck factors later on that are the big problem. Luxury resales and Research Agreements are extremely powerful mechanics, but they depend on AI cash production and so the degree to which you can utilize them is random. If you're on a difficulty below Deity or everyone is not on the same landmass, these become huge luck factors. Coal is a serious problem for Culture games. The AI's Wonder builds are extremely erratic now that Meritocracy is in play. Barb encampment quests can be plentiful or non-existent, and nearby or across the continent.

 

[vexing]

speaking of lame luck factors, i just rolled up a gminor 2 start to fool around with askia and see what happens, and i happened to hit skilldorado. now i guess i have to play the game through =/

 

[Martin Alvito]

Yeah, having something like that happen is pretty unfun. You want the bugs worked out of your strategy before you get something horribly imba like that.

I just choked horribly in a G-Minor 2 game on turn 56 Astronomy (and the funds to re-up the RAs and rush a Caravel immediately) by failing on a block. Had all of Classical cleared already, too. But the terrain was flat as a pancake with little livestock, so it probably wasn't going to be #1 overall.

Another point: I was going to be broke after rushing the Caravel, and finding the other AIs but having no money for deals is sort of bad. Maybe I shouldn't have thrown that 250 at a city-state after clearing the barb camp.

 

[Slick_]

Isn't that the truth.

I've also changed quite a few things since the T220 game. I'm certain that you can go below 210 if things break right. I haven't had much luck with AI cash lately on the rare occasions where I roll a decent start, though.

So true. Due to that (and probably some errors on my side) I fail to get below t230 for finishing. Yesterday I botched a game where I had early astronomy + oracle on the same turn due to getting up to Flight instead of Electricity with the last ra wave and missing coal.
Some things I'm unsure of:
-GE for stonehenge? I fooled around with a Manufactury and that worked out okay (had all hills in at least 2 tile distance to capital though). GS for early Medieval/Renaissance could be an option too. At least if you have marble you should be able to hard build SH in time.
-Policy order: Liberty to meritocracy, then opening Tradition. If you're Renaissance then, Freedom till FS. Now that's where I'm kinda stuck. Going LE afterwards or right side of freedom? And after that? Patronage or Piety?

On a sidenote: Cultural allies don't increase output when entering modern era, do they?

Anyway, big thanks to you guys for sharing your strategies here, they improved my gameplay a lot.

 

[Marcelvv]

So true. Due to that (and probably some errors on my side) I fail to get below t230 for finishing. Yesterday I botched a game where I had early astronomy + oracle on the same turn due to getting up to Flight instead of Electricity with the last ra wave and missing coal.
Some things I'm unsure of:
-GE for stonehenge? I fooled around with a Manufactury and that worked out okay (had all hills in at least 2 tile distance to capital though). GS for early Medieval/Renaissance could be an option too. At least if you have marble you should be able to hard build SH in time.
-Policy order: Liberty to meritocracy, then opening Tradition. If you're Renaissance then, Freedom till FS. Now that's where I'm kinda stuck. Going LE afterwards or right side of freedom? And after that? Patronage or Piety?

On a sidenote: Cultural allies don't increase output when entering modern era, do they?

Anyway, big thanks to you guys for sharing your strategies here, they improved my gameplay a lot.

GE for manufactory is an interesting idea. I will try it if someone beats my game.

I time legalism for a free museum, then I complete the right side of Freedom. In most games I can finish both the complete Tradition and Freedom trees before I start Rationalism and finish Scientific Rev just after the last RA's finish (around turn 150-155).

 

[Martin Alvito]

I time legalism for a free museum

Which is so good. It's like getting a free Wonder, and speeding up Hermitage by six to ten turns is very worthwhile.

I don't think that I complete Legalism and Freedom before Telegraph/Radio, but I have everything except the one useless SP in each tree.

Manufactory seems like the wrong play to me. It seems obvious to me (in hindsight) what you want to use the Meritocracy GE for, and it isn't Stonehenge.

 

[Marcelvv]

I don't think that I complete Legalism and Freedom before Telegraph/Radio, but I have everything except the one useless SP in each tree.

I said it wrong. Me too.

Manufactory seems like the wrong play to me. It seems obvious to me (in hindsight) what you want to use the Meritocracy GE for, and it isn't Stonehenge.

Is it a quiz?
Oracle? Opera house? Hermitage?

 

[Martin Alvito]

Is it a quiz?
Oracle? Opera house? Hermitage?

I think that you use it to build the Oracle the turn the Renaissance unlocks and take Freedom. Burning the GE on Sistine would be extremely hot, but the build order is very cluttered after Stonehenge goes up. You have a Temple, a Monastery, a Workshop and a University/Wat that all need to get completed. Depending on the start, you may also need a Stable.

Putting off all of that infrastructure to get Sistine early seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[vexing]

I think that you use it to build the Oracle the turn the Renaissance unlocks and take Freedom. Burning the GE on Sistine would be extremely hot, but the build order is very cluttered after Stonehenge goes up. You have a Temple, a Monastery, a Workshop and a University/Wat that all need to get completed. Depending on the start, you may also need a Stable.

Putting off all of that infrastructure to get Sistine early seems like a bad idea to me.

but the oracle is only 120 hammers. you can time the build to complete turn renaissance unlocks with or without a GE, unless your goal here is just risk aversion (which i doubt is the winning strat). manufactory or saving for sistine seem like better choices.

 

[Martin Alvito]

but the oracle is only 120 hammers. you can time the build to complete turn renaissance unlocks with or without a GE, unless your goal here is just risk aversion (which i doubt is the winning strat). manufactory or saving for sistine seem like better choices.

IIRC it's 250 now. That basically prevents you from putting up a Temple and a Workshop or Monastery when you should be to have the Engineer and Artist available for insta-Louvre.

If you got an amazing production start with Marble, a bunch of Horses and Cows, and a bunch of Wine, then throwing the GE at Sistine might make some sense. I still haven't seen one of those yet. You'd have to get lucky and get a half Hills, half Plains start, get the right resources, get enough Hills to be able to build stuff in the late game, find everybody, have enough cash in the game to max RAs, and not have an AI shaft you on Stonehenge or The Oracle, and find some Coal. That's a lot of conditions to fulfill.

I'll take a few more stabs at it before the gauntlet ends. The turn 220 game was seriously suboptimal, and I still think 210 is realistic if you hit the jackpot and everything above obtains simultaneously.

 

[FiveAces]

I think that you use it to build the Oracle the turn the Renaissance unlocks and take Freedom.

Yes I realized that when I was trying to figure out what to do with the GE since I couldn't ever pop it in time for SH. I did exactly that in my current attempt, plus it all happened on the turn I got my 6th SP to boot. If I hadn't have screwed up the start of my second session and unblocked HBR it would have fantastic potential. Good start - 2 incense, marble, sliver, 2 wheat, 4 hoofed animals, rivers, plus gold AND coal in the last culture ring. As it is I still think it will beat my current best, but will be 3-7 turns off of what it could be. Should finish tonight.

BTW if you settle on marble, you get the wonder bonus immediately.

Almost forgot - 7 cultural CS on the map

EDIT: Finished t222. I'm certain many turns could be gained with better RA management and Patronage instead of Rationalism. I couldn't generate enough gold in time without it to ally all 7 cultural CS. I might give it another go (for fun of course) from my end 1st session save to see what's possible.

 

[vexing]

Good start - 2 incense, marble, sliver, 2 wheat, 4 hoofed animals, rivers, plus gold AND coal in the last culture ring...
Almost forgot - 7 cultural CS on the map

"good" is an understatement.

 

[FiveAces]

"good" is an understatement.

Throw out the coal and it's only marginally better than most of the other good starts on Great Plains. It's really not that hard to roll marble and multiple incense or wine plus cows/wheat with 2 rivers when you spawn in the middle of the map. As Marcelvv has said, it usually takes 15 min or less to find something you want to try to play.

 

[tommynt]

I have finaly a pretty promising game to come.
After having wasted like 3 hours with restarts on pang which just didnt produce useful land or gave me only dumb hut outcomes - GP all the way ...

So is the question which policiy treas to choose dumb or obvious?
starting with trad and lib seems like a no brainer then going into this "double culture tree" and less policy costs - next no brainer - but 4th and 5th?

Another question - whats usual the "limiting" factor?
culture or science?
So rather buy some cs or gift money to ai for RA? (if needed)

 

[vexing]

Another question - whats usual the "limiting" factor?
culture or science?

it's always culture, but science speeds up culture via opening up hermitage, radio tower, cristo redentor. basically you want to have full RAs going until you'll get those key techs.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Who threw up the sub-220 game? I can see that someone did.

 

[vexing]

i did... but it hasn't been checked yet =p

 

[DaveMcW]

That was me.

I found a novel solution to the problem of broke AIs, at the cost of slightly slower development.

 

[Tabarnak]

i did... but it hasn't been checked yet =p

That was me.

No,no...it's me

 

[vexing]

we're talking about gminor2 right?