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Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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My experience is that standard sea level is the way to go.
- High sea level enables you to meet everyone quickly, but it results in a conflict-prone game with broke AIs and increased likelihood of AI attacks.
- Low sea level means more elbow room and more AI funds in the long run, but it takes too long to find everyone.
It's possible that a lucky low sea level game would be better than default levels, but that adds yet another low probability random element you're hunting for at start.
- High sea level enables you to meet everyone quickly, but it results in a conflict-prone game with broke AIs and increased likelihood of AI attacks.
- Low sea level means more elbow room and more AI funds in the long run, but it takes too long to find everyone.
It's possible that a lucky low sea level game would be better than default levels, but that adds yet another low probability random element you're hunting for at start.
I've never managed 7 simultaneous RAs on a standard map. I've had 6 before. Keeping 5 in the mid-game (when AIs tend to be a bit poorer and if anyone is annoyed with you, this is when they will be annoyed) is a bit more important than 6 in the 1st batch, I think.
I build 2 scouts. Usually monument -> scout -> scout, though I can see the argument for later monument.
The starting warrior scout in close. I almost never let him wonder far, as I usually need him for some sort of barbarian pacification a bit later. As for the scouts, one goes in each "direction" (east and west, generally). If one scout dies before I feel like I've exhausted that direction, I don't hesitate to build more. I definitely keep my search up until I meet all 7 AIs. Earlier is better. I actually wonder if 3 scouts (downside is slower 2nd building - granary? - and higher maintenance) is better than 2 for consistent results.
ntr0py
Chieftain
Yes. 100% Ack. I'm going to try the 3 scout thing.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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That'd provide some strong Wonderspam.
I keep getting starts that make me sound like Darius when he's irritated.
I keep getting starts that make me sound like Darius when he's irritated.
Robert Smith
Prince
I have finished a T218 game. It is accepted already (my T220 game was excluded).
I changed a few small things and I think my way of playing is pretty much optimal now. It can be better (210-215), because Sistine and Kremlin were build before I could. But the probability that everything goes perfect is very small.
I changed a few small things and I think my way of playing is pretty much optimal now. It can be better (210-215), because Sistine and Kremlin were build before I could. But the probability that everything goes perfect is very small.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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Isn't that the truth.
I've also changed quite a few things since the T220 game. I'm certain that you can go below 210 if things break right. I haven't had much luck with AI cash lately on the rare occasions where I roll a decent start, though.
I truly wonder why no1 is mentioning hut-luck beside ueberland need.
Having 1 or 2 early sp hut + maybe a calender pop gives u like 5-10 turn headstart compaered to poping barb notifiaction.
Not to speak of el dorado and other stuff.
as everything in cap is multiplicative adding up - having early good start, makes u stronger and stronger all game.
Also I totaly fail to see how u d be able to run 7 RA in t49, sure I can get 200x7 gold kinda "easy" but if u got that much money ai ll ask for 100-200 bonus for each RA.
To generate money u also have to time trades so ai can give u the money before they spend it on other stuff - liek buying RA.
I have had games where I did wait some turn for ai to generate money for a RA to just have it make the RA with another civ in between turns ..
Seems all kinda "luck" to me.
I guess most guys are mixing the 1. 6-8 sp from tradition and liberty tree? like trad->3x-lib->2xtrad ?
What I also dont understand how u guys are mentaly able to do nothing else as restarting maps for 1 hour ..... gaming should be fun ....
Having 1 or 2 early sp hut + maybe a calender pop gives u like 5-10 turn headstart compaered to poping barb notifiaction.
Not to speak of el dorado and other stuff.
as everything in cap is multiplicative adding up - having early good start, makes u stronger and stronger all game.
Also I totaly fail to see how u d be able to run 7 RA in t49, sure I can get 200x7 gold kinda "easy" but if u got that much money ai ll ask for 100-200 bonus for each RA.
To generate money u also have to time trades so ai can give u the money before they spend it on other stuff - liek buying RA.
I have had games where I did wait some turn for ai to generate money for a RA to just have it make the RA with another civ in between turns ..
Seems all kinda "luck" to me.
I guess most guys are mixing the 1. 6-8 sp from tradition and liberty tree? like trad->3x-lib->2xtrad ?
What I also dont understand how u guys are mentaly able to do nothing else as restarting maps for 1 hour ..... gaming should be fun ....
Well, I'd say there's no luck in huts as soon as you start with 2 scouts (+ your initial warrior) - when you pop 6..10 ruins the bonuses you get are less or more even (sometimes better sometimes worse - but it's barely 5-10 turn effect (for a cultural victory at least)).
They ask for extra money when you're era(s) ahead, it does not matter how much gold you have.
Yeah, sometimes it's quite annoying - but playing with silly whales is much less fun
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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On start lotto: we're not talking about it because it's a settled question. Good ruins pops make a difference in any game. What's surprising is the number of luck factors later on.
7 RAs before turn 50 is very feasible. I've done it several times. You have to keep track of who is in Classical, sell luxuries to non-Classical AIs, loan at 31 per GPT when they get close so they can't spend, and suck it up and pay the premium to the slow research AIs at the end. It won't all fall right every time.
The biggest barrier to 7 RAs by turn 50 is Scout death. Sometimes your second move discovers a barb camp and his buddy, and there's not much you can do about it. I also tend to take risks with my Scouts after they're damaged, because six or seven turns without exploring is a long time and there's no guarantee of not being discovered by another barb.
7 RAs before turn 50 is very feasible. I've done it several times. You have to keep track of who is in Classical, sell luxuries to non-Classical AIs, loan at 31 per GPT when they get close so they can't spend, and suck it up and pay the premium to the slow research AIs at the end. It won't all fall right every time.
The biggest barrier to 7 RAs by turn 50 is Scout death. Sometimes your second move discovers a barb camp and his buddy, and there's not much you can do about it. I also tend to take risks with my Scouts after they're damaged, because six or seven turns without exploring is a long time and there's no guarantee of not being discovered by another barb.
In pretty every game I am able to sign 7 RA's before turn 50-55. Just sign them as soon as they get to classical age. So I don't think it's luck.
I take 3 liberty (up to meritocracy) and 2 tradition policies. Then I switch to Freedom, just make sure you get Ren. era around turn 70-75.
I get a decent map within 15 minutes most of the time. I wait for the wine/marble spot on a great plains map.
I bet you mean 3 Liberty and 2 Tradition.
I finished a game and got my first cultural victory!
Thanks for all your tips guys. Very helpful. I'm currently 9th but it will probably my only game. I don't really like this kind of game but i really wanted to achieve a cultural victory...average of once per 4 years now
Those of you using the meritocracy GE for SH - what turn are you getting the policy on? I've played 2 games trying this and gotten beat at t50 and t51 with 6t until the GE. Am I just unlucky or doing something wrong?
Starting builds are scout-scout-monument and even going scout-monument wouldn't have made a difference in either game.
Starting builds are scout-scout-monument and even going scout-monument wouldn't have made a difference in either game.
In my T218 game I completed Stonehenge on turn 35. If I remember correctly I was lucky, because I got 2 culture huts. In a T245 game it was on turn 55. I always build scout-monument.
Yeah, a single early (say turn 5) culture hut will move up SH by 13 or so turns, which is usually enough for the Meritocracy play to work. At this point (with a 6th place turn 232 or so game), I would reroll if I got beat to SH at turn 51 or so as I know I wouldn't be able to improve on my result by much (if at all).
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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I'm not convinced that GE on Stonehenge is the right call, believe it or not. If you hard build it twenty turns later, you're giving up 160
, but you don't take the fifth policy until the Renaissance, so you get about 100 back when you take Free Speech, you still have the GE for another purpose, and you have still have SH in place when you hit Constitution.
You should throw the game back and roll another if you don't hit a ruin. Delaying your Worker by that much is a very bad thing.
, but you don't take the fifth policy until the Renaissance, so you get about 100 back when you take Free Speech, you still have the GE for another purpose, and you have still have SH in place when you hit Constitution.You should throw the game back and roll another if you don't hit a
ruin. Delaying your Worker by that much is a very bad thing.
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You should throw the game back and roll another if you don't hit a
I believe your comment and I'm troubled by it. It could be used it as an argument against allowing Ruins in HoF games. I know there are many reasons to abandon a game, but allowing Ruins adds several more (each Ruins that confers a significant advantage for the "skill" of being able to find and enter Ruins).
It seems similar to Civ IV games that are abandoned by some players when a Hut fails to provide a critical Technology that provides a multiple turn advantage.
I have yet to hear anyone give a really sound reason for including Ruins in Civ V or Tribal Villages in Civ IV. They both ruin the game by subverting player skill with a "game of chance" like Roulette, except in Civ V, a Ruins always provides either a small or big advantage. Its really sad to see a player say you need to win a "game of chance" via a Ruins to have a good game, but that does seem to be the case in Civ V. This factor seems even worse in Civ V than it ever was in Civ IV.
Thank you, Martin Alvito, for such a clear statement of strategic advantage. I applaud your honest assessment. I may believe Ruins should not be permitted in HoF. However, Ruins are permitted and thus I agree that players should be able to (legally) manipulate them to whatever turn reduction advantage they can muster.
Sun Tzu Wu
I agree. Ruins should be taken off. They ''add'' nothing but a luck factor.
But barbs should be in game because some civs are close related to them. If a patch can resolve the sell/pillage luxuries trade and some other exploits, everything else should be ok.
But barbs should be in game because some civs are close related to them. If a patch can resolve the sell/pillage luxuries trade and some other exploits, everything else should be ok.
