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At first, I simply saw "Civ: Any", and natually thought that Inca was allowed.
It might be clearer to state the allowed Civ as simply:
- Civ: Any, except Inca
Sun Tzu Wu
G-Minor 32
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
At first, I simply saw "Civ: Any", and natually thought that Inca was allowed.
It might be clearer to state the allowed Civ as simply:
Sun Tzu Wu
You know the more I think about this, the harder I'm finding it to reliably get the 3rd legendary city.
Let's say you settle 5 GA's there - with sistine that's 70cpt. Say they have some temples, monasteries, uni, theater, for 12cpt. Say there's 2 wonders there for 18cpt. Maybe 6 specialists - 12cpt with sistine. That's 112 total. Say they (or you?) builds eiffel and they've also built a +50% building there - 224cpt.
That's 223 turns of the full amount. Assume you don't settle your GA's until there's a +50% building (if ever). That's cutting it close, and you still need another +50% building to be comfortable or have a decent finishing time.
Maybe you get them to switch to FS before the PA - will they stay in it?
Anybody have any other suggestions on how to help the 3rd city?
Let's say you settle 5 GA's there - with sistine that's 70cpt. Say they have some temples, monasteries, uni, theater, for 12cpt. Say there's 2 wonders there for 18cpt. Maybe 6 specialists - 12cpt with sistine. That's 112 total. Say they (or you?) builds eiffel and they've also built a +50% building there - 224cpt.
That's 223 turns of the full amount. Assume you don't settle your GA's until there's a +50% building (if ever). That's cutting it close, and you still need another +50% building to be comfortable or have a decent finishing time.
Maybe you get them to switch to FS before the PA - will they stay in it?
Anybody have any other suggestions on how to help the 3rd city?
shyuhe
Deity
You can get FS via the UN too.
It is 12 cpt or 14 with Sistine's.
It wasn't me but someone else.
Now, how many times have I used this sentence before?
Harbourboy
Deity
Hmm, there is a fair amount of luck in this one. Which is good for me, because the less dependent this is on skill, the lower the advantage the rest of you guys have. In my first game, Roosevelt keeps building cathedrals, but in his crappy non culture cities! I am sure he will get legendary eventually, but I might need a fleet of James Bonds to go and deal with the Egyptian space ship first.
My first try was 1960 AD.
I think Mansa is a bad choice for partner. He didn't build ANY early/mid game wonders. But then at some point a light turns on and he gets it. The two cities of his I was working on suddendly cranked out culture buildings/wonders one after the other to get to 400% multipliers...600 cpt and 500 cpt. Strangely it was his capitol that was only 500 cpt by the end of the game. It finished 35 turns later.
Milestones:
250 BC Oxford
100 AD Liberalism/Free Mil Tradition/Defensive pact
980 AD Communism. A few turns later, Perm Alliance.
Great People:
3 GS (3 academies),
3 GE (2 rushed wonders, 1 settled),
9 GA (settled),
1 GM (settled)
I think Mansa is a bad choice for partner. He didn't build ANY early/mid game wonders. But then at some point a light turns on and he gets it. The two cities of his I was working on suddendly cranked out culture buildings/wonders one after the other to get to 400% multipliers...600 cpt and 500 cpt. Strangely it was his capitol that was only 500 cpt by the end of the game. It finished 35 turns later.
Milestones:
250 BC Oxford
100 AD Liberalism/Free Mil Tradition/Defensive pact
980 AD Communism. A few turns later, Perm Alliance.
Great People:
3 GS (3 academies),
3 GE (2 rushed wonders, 1 settled),
9 GA (settled),
1 GM (settled)
Hah... I just had a 1970 AD finish, but it was on quick. Doh! One thing to note is that I settled GAs in my partners cities. He then promptly built all the cultural multiplier buildings in other cities! In the end, his cities were 400 and 320 cpt, mostly due to multiple settled GAs. I'll give it another go, but this time with the correct settings.
Harbourboy
Deity
Yeah, there is no way to make your partner build the culture buildings in the right place!
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
My first try also had Mansa as a partner. I think I will try for Ramses as a partner next time, as one of his cities went legendary without my help in my game. Your PA came in WAY before mine (I didn't get the DP signed until after I had researched Communism
). Great People seems about the same as mine (although I didn't take notes). Both my PA partners cities went legendary unexpectedly on the same turn.
Harbourboy
Deity
How big a deal is GP pollution in this game then? In a normal cultural game, you want almost pure Great Artists, but seeing as culture bombs are irrelevant, does this increase the usefulness of other Great People, along with the wonders that generate them (e.g. Pyramids and Great Library)?
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Well my second try was going well until I couldn't get Louis to sign a DP/PA. I had gotten CS in 1400 B.C., Globe in 875 B.C. and Military Tradition from Lib. in 125 A.D. However, since then, I haven't even been able to get 20, let alone 40, turns of DP with Louis. He founded Buddhism and keeps wanting to go to that. Every five turns, he will switch from my religion back. I keep bribing him, but it is slowing me down. Even when he is my religion, he won't be friendly. It's now 1200 A.D. and I've given up on that game.
That was makes this gauntlet so much fun. You can take a more casual approach. Just about any GP can be put to good use. You can make academies in your PA partner's cities. That gives 4 culture. Engineers are great for popping out wonders. Even a Prophet can make a Shrine for 4 culture. Artist/Engineer are best I guess, so pyramids are good, sistine, parth, Eiffel Tower...anything that affects all cities.
Well my 2nd try doesn't seem that bad now - 1940. I also had Mansa as a partner. In my game, he did build 3 of the early wonders in his 2 legendary cities, and his culture light clicked immediately with the PA.
Couple things could have made it much better. 1) Asoka the Military Genius DOW'd on me since I still had warriors (mo metal to upgrade), sending a massive army of 2 horse archers. Problem was, I was 20 turns into my DP with Mansa. So bam! DOW and DP cancelled. Now we have mutual war, but the turns seem to have reset, since when I (and Mansa with a bribe) make peace I need 40 more turns for the PA. 2) Mansa wouldn't convert to FS before the PA so I had to wait an eternity for the UN.
I have no idea how I managed to beat WT's time since I had only a vague strategy (tech to MM, pop GA's) and late PA+AI FS. Must have been the early wonders Mansa built?
3 prophets (settled)
1 late GS (academy during electricity, but I did the maths)
9 GA (settled, 6-3) + 1GA on the last turn
I used Lib for physics. Turns out that was fine because of the DOW. Not sure if it's optimal though. Getting the PA early is key because you can settle your GA's that much sooner.
WT - I see you had no prophets - did you get lucky or pass on the CS slingshot? I'm thinking the latter's the way to go - you need GA's and an initial GS, and GE's are ok esp if you need the UN for AI FS, but the GP's are worthless.
Harbourboy - I think GP pollution is significant as settled GA's provide much of the culture in the foreign cities. My result would have been many turns better if those GP's were GA's (or GE's or even GS's). Also, the AI is at least smart enough to only build the +50% buildings in his best 3 cities. You need to settle the GA's in the capital and the other one with the best production. And spam him with missionaries from all your religions. He will cooperate and build cathedrals.
If you build Sistine and Eiffel yourself, your PA partner will get their benefits too.
My last game until after Christmas. Happy holidays all!
Couple things could have made it much better. 1) Asoka the Military Genius DOW'd on me since I still had warriors (mo metal to upgrade), sending a massive army of 2 horse archers. Problem was, I was 20 turns into my DP with Mansa. So bam! DOW and DP cancelled. Now we have mutual war, but the turns seem to have reset, since when I (and Mansa with a bribe) make peace I need 40 more turns for the PA. 2) Mansa wouldn't convert to FS before the PA so I had to wait an eternity for the UN.
I have no idea how I managed to beat WT's time since I had only a vague strategy (tech to MM, pop GA's) and late PA+AI FS. Must have been the early wonders Mansa built?
3 prophets (settled)
1 late GS (academy during electricity, but I did the maths)
9 GA (settled, 6-3) + 1GA on the last turn
I used Lib for physics. Turns out that was fine because of the DOW. Not sure if it's optimal though. Getting the PA early is key because you can settle your GA's that much sooner.
WT - I see you had no prophets - did you get lucky or pass on the CS slingshot? I'm thinking the latter's the way to go - you need GA's and an initial GS, and GE's are ok esp if you need the UN for AI FS, but the GP's are worthless.
Harbourboy - I think GP pollution is significant as settled GA's provide much of the culture in the foreign cities. My result would have been many turns better if those GP's were GA's (or GE's or even GS's). Also, the AI is at least smart enough to only build the +50% buildings in his best 3 cities. You need to settle the GA's in the capital and the other one with the best production. And spam him with missionaries from all your religions. He will cooperate and build cathedrals.
If you build Sistine and Eiffel yourself, your PA partner will get their benefits too.
My last game until after Christmas. Happy holidays all!
Plan: concentrate on GAs and science multipliers. Nasty marbled capital: maxed out at 13pop and 7 cottages.
Bureau and Academy in t63 (quite late). Pathenon and Sistine's to help my partner in the future. Choose Hatty. Choose his 2 cities. Try to settle my GA... and I can't. I think, maybe GA is not the way to go (WRONG). I think, maybe in Warlords you can settle and not in Vanilla, I won't play again then (WRONG)... So gift her 6 GA. I don't know what she did with them, 1 was settled, 1 was used for a GoldenAge, maybe she bulbed the others?
475AD(t134) Liberalism/Free Mil Tradition/Defensive pact.
Comun t167, PA in t174, two surprises:
- One of the discarded cities had built Hermitage, it was obviously the best candidate now.
- I can settle GAs NOW!
Time to go and read the links in the second post before starting another game. I was thinking of skipping any non-GA WW. I don't know yet, since I don't have an idea how many multipliers and how much culture their cities will have.
I love OCC, because of the brisk pace.
Hatty wouldn't show the option to revolt to FS after the PA, even when I was in FS myself. Is this normal? How can I get her to revolt to FS, if only temporarily, before the UN?
Bureau and Academy in t63 (quite late). Pathenon and Sistine's to help my partner in the future. Choose Hatty. Choose his 2 cities. Try to settle my GA... and I can't. I think, maybe GA is not the way to go (WRONG). I think, maybe in Warlords you can settle and not in Vanilla, I won't play again then (WRONG)... So gift her 6 GA. I don't know what she did with them, 1 was settled, 1 was used for a GoldenAge, maybe she bulbed the others?
475AD(t134) Liberalism/Free Mil Tradition/Defensive pact.
Comun t167, PA in t174, two surprises:
- One of the discarded cities had built Hermitage, it was obviously the best candidate now.
- I can settle GAs NOW!
Time to go and read the links in the second post before starting another game. I was thinking of skipping any non-GA WW. I don't know yet, since I don't have an idea how many multipliers and how much culture their cities will have.
I love OCC, because of the brisk pace.
Hatty wouldn't show the option to revolt to FS after the PA, even when I was in FS myself. Is this normal? How can I get her to revolt to FS, if only temporarily, before the UN?
I've played 2 games - PA's with Cyrus and Mansa. With enough time (and the techs/religions) they built 3-5 cathedrals, Herm, Broadway, R&R, Holly + BT from your Eiffel (or their Eiffel) in 3 cities. Figure the "extra" city gets 1 wonder and a cathedral. That leaves 450% among the other two. Plus Broadcast and FS in both means you are looking at minimum 375% on average. Just settle an extra 2-3 GA's in the one with the lower multiplier.
EDIT: Don't skip HG (a mistake I made). You can use any GE's for Eiffel or UN. +1 health can't be bought and helps your PA run more +2 specialists.
Did she have Liberalism? If she doesn't she can't run FS unless you force it on her through the UN.
Me too. I'm gonna try some Deity space races once I have some time.
Nobody's mentioned leaders yet - I've been playing vanilla Qin. Anybody using someone different?
beaten
1951 for me.
I didn't know you could settle GAs after a permanent alliance, so I wasted 10 or so GAs by gifting them to gandhi.
Well, he didn't send them to hell, he lightbulbed them all obviously.
This gave him nationalism before liberalism, and a helluvah lot of techs (DR for instance), and he was board leader for ever after that.
edit : I see fiveaces is ahead. No wonder, if you ask me
.A few random thoughts about what went right and what not :
- selecting only gandhi as industrial allowed him to build most wonders (the few he missed where those I built)
- I think gandhi is the best choice for a PA because 1) he's peaceful and doesn't care if you don't give in to his demands 2) he's industrious (vanilla), and goes quite happily after early wonders 3) he's spiritual, and doesn't refuse to build a few cathedrals
- selecting only "loyal" AIs made my world the most peaceful place you could think of (= no war, not even a smallish one)
- knowing from the scratch with whom you're going to PA makes it really trivial to get the PA when the time is right (a few gifts, a few resources, giving in to demands et voila, no need for shared religion)
- helping your target PA too early can have a cost. Gandhi beat me to liberalism!
at noble ! Not everything was lost, since I could sign a defensive pact with him before I had military tradition (he had it already!).- I spread religions across Gandhi's cities to allow him to build more than 1 cathedral, and that worked.
- OCC is rather unusual for me, but a lot fun and easy to play. Health is a big problem, while happiness isn't.
- Gifting GAs to the AI early isn't a very bright move. I thought that if I gifted him 3 GAs in one city and 2 in the other he could not do anything else than settle them there. He obviously didn't. Lightbulbs don't have quite the same value.
- I played saladin. Philo is very valuable. Spiritual too, for diplomatic issues.Good choice, but maybe not the best? Playing gandhi could be good too, but that makes it impossible to play "against"/with him.
Yes, she did, of course, I gifted it to her long before in the hopes she would decide to revolt by herself.
It seems you can't ask for civics changes once you are in PA, as well as you can't trade OB then or other things.
yep. Better gift liberalism then trade your free tech for FS
Harbourboy
Deity
How can you make people vote for Free Speech with United Nations? Everyone rejects my continued pleas to convert. Plus I am getting pretty sick of Gandhi trying to build cathedrals in his poxy border cities while happily building tanks in his culture cities!
Aaaargh. There is no skill to this gauntlet. I can get Permanent Alliance easily and settle countless Great Artists in my ally's cities, but there is NOTHING you can do to make him adopt sensible culture tactics, like using the slider, running Artists, bombing artists, and building culture buildings. This is silly!
Aaaargh. There is no skill to this gauntlet. I can get Permanent Alliance easily and settle countless Great Artists in my ally's cities, but there is NOTHING you can do to make him adopt sensible culture tactics, like using the slider, running Artists, bombing artists, and building culture buildings. This is silly!
true about the stupid troops building, but you definitely can check which cities having the most "potential" (in the form of ancient wonders).
FS is a bit hard to force, true enough.
edit : and it's a bit disapointing too, when you see towns unworked and coast tiles worked
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