G-Minor 32

[Shoot the Moon]

Washington may be a good PA partner, as his favorite civic is free speech. I have been using Elizabeth (Warlords, Philosophical/Financial). Although I may go back to vanilla for industrial Ghandi. However, I will probably stay in Warlords to try first Ramesses and then Washington as PA partners.

 

[Harbourboy]

Well, I can safely say that Warlords Roosevelt and Warlords Gandhi are hopeless at building culture cities.

Is there any reason to bother trying to found religions then controlling how they spread to the ally's cities?

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Try Warlords Ramesses. According to the BtS reference charts, he looks to be the best.

 

[WastinTime]

My game went horribly wrong. Still went legendary in 1929AD though.

Where do I begin with the problems. I tried Louis as a partner. He didn't build a single Cathedral until 1820 AD. He doesn't get along well with Mansa and declared war after 35 turns of Defense Pact. So I shared the war for 20 turns...still no PA, then about 15 more turns of peace and he finally signed. I learned something. I thought turns spent in D.Pact would be added to turns spent in shared war. I guess not. So in the war...Mansa conquers one of Louis' best cities. In fact, Louis captured it back and that city ended up one of the Legendary ones.

I was stuck on a continent with no way to contact Cyrus or Hatty. So, naturally, they didn't like me much and wouldn't vote me as Sec-General. I had to wait for Free Speech to finally get put to a vote.

I got zero Engineers and 1 GM, 4 GS. They're pretty useless, especially when Academies are up already.

On the bright side, I got 12 GA.

My capitol was solid with 2 gems, and gold, corn, cow. But none of that really matters. I think more food/health resources would pay off better.

So, Louis is out and I think I can get 1800's next try.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

So, Louis is out and I think I can get 1800's next try.

That was my exact conclusion after my botched Louis attempt. He is a pain to get into a PA.

 

[jesusin]

Hatty wouldn't show the option to revolt to FS after the PA, even when I was in FS myself. Is this normal? How can I get her to revolt to FS, if only temporarily, before the UN?

I think I understand it now. She probably had had a revolt shortly before, so she couldn't possibly have any revolution.


Second attempt, no Oracle, no GLIB, Lib+MilTra+PA in the BCs. I have done my work, now it is your turn, Gandhi. What? It's 1000AD and you don't have built a single granary??? Why do you think I gifted you Pottery 4000 years ago? All the buildings in your Hermitage city are thatre and barracks???? You insist on building settlers and forges????

I'll finish this game, but I, like Harbourboy, don't like the luck of control.

 

[KMadCandy]

Washington may be a good PA partner, as his favorite civic is free speech.

it is, but he has this tendency to not use it. seriously, he's so weird. one cultural gauntlet i actually wanted him to fight back and not lose so many tiles to my cities. so i bribed him into FS, and he switched to it, but then switched back to bureaucracy 5 turns later. three times! and he wasn't building apollo in his capital or anything. later hatty built the UN but george was elected secretary general. the first thing he put up for vote was FS. it failed. he didn't switch to it himself. dork! he wanted to force the world into it, but wasn't willing to set a personal example . that was in warlords.

i haven't done a scientific study on the guy, but that isn't the only game i've seen him not running his favorite civic when he had the ability to. he is so confused.

 

[cabert]

it is, but he has this tendency to not use it. seriously, he's so weird. one cultural gauntlet i actually wanted him to fight back and not lose so many tiles to my cities. so i bribed him into FS, and he switched to it, but then switched back to bureaucracy 5 turns later. three times! and he wasn't building apollo in his capital or anything. later hatty built the UN but george was elected secretary general. the first thing he put up for vote was FS. it failed. he didn't switch to it himself. dork! he wanted to force the world into it, but wasn't willing to set a personal example . that was in warlords.

i haven't done a scientific study on the guy, but that isn't the only game i've seen him not running his favorite civic when he had the ability to. he is so confused.

hello Kmad, did you try this gauntlet?

I agree with jesusin and harbourboy that the luck part is quite high, but given the low level it still seems doable.
I guess luck will be a part of the final date, though.
Can't say I was unlucky, since Gandhi built cathedrals in both the city I thought of bringing to legendary, but he could have settled at least 1 of the GAs I gifted him. So it was a so so luck.

 

[Harbourboy]

Woohoo. I achieved a win in this crazy gauntlet 1960 AD.

I was Gandhi and my ally was Ramesses. He knew what to do and piled on the cathedrals in his 2nd culture city until it was running 800 cpt at the end. Good work, Ramesses!

 

[cabert]

harbourboy.

I think the biggest strategic move in this gauntlet is the choice of the leaders.
What do you guys think?

 

[billybgame]

Ok...I gave this a quick whirl(well, to the point of where I could get the PA), this morning. I aptly named my leader Confused Billybgame, with this one. Yikes. I'll do terribly, for sure. But, I can't even figure out the PA thing. I signed a defensive pact with Cyrus, WAY more than 40 turns(not sure where this figure comes from, but I read it in this thread....it amazes me the info the game just doesn't bother telling us). Finally teched to Fanatacism, and go to talk to Cyrus again. No PA there to offer. The one thing was, all of a sudden, after being Friendly forever, he was Pleased. I imagine due to a new -1 from close borders. I gifted him a few things, and he was friendly again. Still no PA.

I did just go do a search, and read a disturbing thing. Perhaps I don't have Permanent Alliances selected in my game options?

If that's the case, would be nice if the rules here might have mentioned to check that, before umpteen hours get wasted.

 

[Harbourboy]

You definitely have to have permanent alliance checked at the start of the game.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

You definitely have to have permanent alliance checked at the start of the game.

and its not checked by default. So it might want to get added to the gauntlet text as a forced option.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Must not play as Inca.

Clearly this means you can't begin the game playing the Incan Civilization, but does this also mean you can't have a Permanent Alliance with the Incan Civilization?

Also, as someone else pointed out, the settings for this Gauntlet should clearly state that the Permanent Alliance setting is required (in addition to OCC).

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[pholtz]

This is absolutely crazy, but I'll give it a try. Just finished my first cultural victory since I started playing again, at Warlords level. At least I have an idea now of what's required. Never played a OCC, never had a PA, so this will either be fun, a disaster or both. Luckily I have all your comments here to give me some help.

Edit: given it a start. No one has mentioned much about health other than its a problem. So thought I would not clear cut but leave all the forests up I can to help with health. I also didn't like my first map, very little fresh water nearby. My second try had me between two rivers so lots of fresh water, hopefully that will help with health also.

Playing Elizabeth against Saladin, Ramesses, Asoka and Shaka. Thought I would throw in one agressive character that the others could hate. I didn't start with Mysticism so I went after and got Hinduism and Judaism. I figure the more religious options I have, the better to pair up with someone. So far I've only seen Shaka and Ramesses. Neither one is Buddist.

150 AD - I'm in the middle of a continent, no sea access, might be a mistake. I am sharing the land with Ramesses and Shaka. Might have made a mistake putting Shaka in the game, he scares me a bit. No copper or iron in my territory. But I do have horses. So I guess my army will be Horse Archers and Chariots for a while. Both AI's had open borders with me for a while, but Shaka canceled his, making me build up my army a bit so I wouldn't look like an easy pushover. Originally I was Hindu as was Ramesses, but Ramesses switched to Confusianism, so I did too. I founded Hindu, Judism and Confusianism, and have built the Kong Miao. Trying to build the Parthenon now, Ramesses built the Temple of Artemis and someone else the Pyramids. I'm number three in points. I hope this is normal, Ramsses has gotten some very good tech trades from me so he leads. But I'm friendly with him with a +14 relationship. So I need to concentrate on the techs that help me trade with him and form different kinds of agreements I guess.

1050 AD I'm in trouble. Ramesses switch to Christianity and is now complaining about close borders, so I dont' know if I'll ever get a PA with him. Shaka, surprise!, has been peaceful so far.

1818AD No way I'm going to win this thing, but it has been interesting. My position just didn't make a PA possible. I'm right in the center of a continent like a large cancer forcing the other two on the borders and both feel our borders are too close. Shaka finally declared war, he was attacking with War Elephants and Muskets, all I had at the beginning were longbowmen, horse archers and catapults. Because I was central, I was able to defend successfully and retreat the survivors back to the middle to heal. Suprisingly, the catapults were very handy as they had the best chance to survive the first attack with a retreat. Finally, when I had Gunpowder 1/2 researched Ramesses agreed to sell it to me, and with Cavalry and Muskets of my own, I held Shaka off. I'm thinking next time, I'll destroy some of his cities.

Saladin finally appeared, he's a Buddist so no more likely to form a PA with me. Ramesses stayed Christian and it never spread to my city so I couldn't change to suit him. But if I survive this, its a win of sorts. Next time, I'll look for a good site near the ocean, a central position just doesn't make a PA possible, and it was probably a mistake to include Shaka.

 

[Denniz]

Clearly this means you can't begin the game playing the Incan Civilization, but does this also mean you can't have a Permanent Alliance with the Incan Civilization?

It doesn't matter who you form a PA with. We just don't want people playing as the Inca as most gauntlets would be won by someone playing them due to the early UU rush strategy. It doesn't really apply to this one but we set it up as a global check. So now you don't have to have them as an opponent.

Also, as someone else pointed out, the settings for this Gauntlet should clearly state that the Permanent Alliance setting is required (in addition to OCC).

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

Technically it is not a required option. If someone figures out a way to win without it then they can submit.

I'll put a reminder in the first post, though.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

I just won in 2036 with the Incas as my ally. Their UB did not help out much, as they were not doing anything culturally anyway. It was crazy in the end. Spaceship components being build all around, losing control of the UN to the builder, China (in other tries I got it every time).

Few things I noticed about my game.

1. I missed out on Polytheism by one turn, but was the early game religion whore. The only other one that I missed out on was DR and I was busy trying to get Liberalism and Nationalism. Turns out every civ became Hindu, eventually me too, which was great for relations. The idea of hogging religions was for just this.

2. Once you have a PA, you can just missionary spam your ally`s two cities and they will eventually build cathedrals and stuff.

3. This game I only build the Oracle, Parthenon, SC and ND as well as the national wonders such as Globe Theatre, HE and whatever. I produced about 9 GA which I sent to Inca, 3 in the capital, 6 in the 2nd city. I had build the shrines for 4 of my 5 religions which was stupid...I didn't need the culture and each new religious building polluted the GPPs further. That and the Oracle I think really slowed me down, because in the home stretch I had 3 or 4 GP produced (and one GS) which I still settled in the 2nd city.

4. In most games, Ramses is a *****.....uh, lets say uncooperative. I usually tried this against both Egypt and both China (that Pavilion has also not really panned out). This time I went with Huayna Capac (as the 4th civ) and I will try him out again.

5. I think some people have said that putting a wonder in your queue keeps it out of the queue of your partner. I need to work with this more, because the Incas build Hollywood in their 3rd city, but not our 3rd city. I have no control of where they build their Islamic shrine either. I didn't want to trust them to build the Eiffel Tower, but we lost out on it in the end. Surprisingly, they did build broadcast tower, much to my delight.

6. I have a question about the teching with your partner. It seems you get a boost when researching the same one. How exactly does this work? Using the UN to force FS is great, but I really took a hit in teching when I lost Bureaucracy.

Fun, fun, might try another.

 

[WastinTime]

I have no control of where they build their Islamic shrine either.

They have no control over that either. It's always built in the holy city.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

right, oops....I meant where they build their Cathedral. I only selectively spam their cities. That way it's easier to control, in theory

 

[pholtz]

Wow, this game is surprising me.

Year 1932

Back in 1818 I had given up on a PA and therefore a Cultural win. I just wanted to see Shaka wiped off the face of the earth .

Then the turn I resume playing the game, I see Saladin is offering a Defensive Pact. I don't see how this will work with him on a different continent and me landlocked, but what the heck. Then a few turns later I see Christian missionaries from Ramesses coming to my city. On the second try christianity starts up in my city and I just for grins I convert.

Later, Ramesses declares war on Shaka, and when I'm ready I join in. He complains a bit about my DP with Saladin, so I drop it. So far I've destroyed 4 major Shaka cities. The Redcoats really give me an advantage, but I go though Trebuchets like crazy as I still don't have iron for Cannon. In the first Shaka war, Ramesses and I also were allies (I immediately bribed him to join when Shaka declared), and I ended the war only because he had declared peace. Perhaps shared wars don't need to be continuous, because now in 1932 he accepts a PA. So I had violated a few of the rules for a PA, I had border tensions, traded with an enemy and even had a DP with another, but I finally got a PA with Ramesses.

This has been a bunch of firsts for me.

First time I've fought without copper or iron.
First time I've upgraded a Warrior to a Redcoat or a Chariot to Calvary.
First OCC and PA.

I doubt if I have the time to get a cultural win, since I've been on war footing for a while, my cuture has suffered, if I do nothing I'm about 40 turns from legendary. I can make a few changes to improve that immediately, if I can just get this war stopped. I have no idea if I'll be able to get Ramesses two cities to culture, but I'll give it a try.

Edit: didn't quite make it, 2049, Ramesses capital will become legendary in 2 turns, his second city in 6 turns or so. Close but no cigar. Finished with a Dan Quayle Time Victory !