G-Minor 37

[Methos]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

[size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
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Settings:

• Victory Condition: Religious (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Monarch
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Rain Forest
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.13.001
• Date: 26th February to 10th March 2008

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[Methos]

Please note that I've made a correction. It was supposed to have 'Rain Forest' as the map type. I apologize for my mistake.

 

[pholtz]

Please note that I've made a correction. It was supposed to have 'Rain Forest' as the map type. I apologize for my mistake.

I was going to say I needed Medium and Small, so I was going to give this a try, but I also need Rain Forest . I want to work on Religious Victory technique for Standard sized maps, so I'll give this a try.

Rain Forest should be quicker than Medium and Small would have been as it will be quicker to get in contact with all the AI's.

Any suggestions on the make up of the AI's?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Bindy's challenge #2 was a rain forest map, so I just did one of these map types last week.

You need lots of workers to clear all the jungle. Once you do though, the land is good. There is loads of food so you can work cottages and run specialists.

The map is pretty similar to an Oasis map with jungle instead of desert. I think that jungles don't give as much unhealthiness on this map type... unless the changed jungle unhealthiness in BtS... but it seemed less than normal to me.

I've never won a religious victory (or a diplomatic either, although working on it in my current game), so I will have to try this.

Saladin maybe for madrassas and mysticism, as well as being spiritual?

 

[Lexad]

If you play for fastest vic, you might not even need IW. Just start outside of jungle.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

The AP has to be the most frustrating VC i have ever seen. I was cruising for a 0 AD finish today, only the votes for the AP didnt show up till around 200AD. The only vote i got before then was when i built the ap around 1500bc, and voted as the leader. This is most likely caused by the fact i had 75% of the pop.

It would also seem the religion swap bypass for the 75% vote limit doesnt work if the civ is spiritual like egypt.

I had a corner start, went straight to Mono, oracled the Theo, rexed to 5 cities, chopped my head off clearing jungle for pop, but couldnt get anyone to vote nor could i get the bypass to work with spiritual.

0AD is my goal for this, as the game is rather quick (less than an hour for 2 attempts, one thwarted by some horrible lake placement)

 

[Harbourboy]

I still don't understand this new religious VC, so will be watching this with interest.

 

[bestje]

I hate rainforest maps but i agree with ParadigmShifter that once they are cleared they leave quite good terrain for either SE or CE

@pholtz i always prefer mostly the peaceful AIs but with a few of the warmongers thrown in so hopefully whoever is in the other election spot is unpopular. might be worth avoiding spiritual civs as well to get an early religion

 

[Thrallia]

@ArcadicGamer: good luck finishing in 0AD I think you might slip to 1AD

 

[WastinTime]

Turn 6: I popped Bronze and Iron working. Is that good?

Don't worry, I have no idea how to handle this Rainforest map, or Normal speed, or Standard Size, so I'm not expecting a great game. I didn't even thing Iron Working was going to be necessary. I was going to skip it.

 

[Ozbenno]

I must admit to being stumped by AP victories, so might have to try this one.

 

[pholtz]

It's 400 BC for me right now. The AP is just built, Christian, no one else has any Christian cities yet. I'm at least Cautious with all civ's even when we have a religious difference... I tried to stay away from any civs that get really angry in this case.

My experience with smaller maps was that I preferred others to get the early religions, while I Oracle pop Theology and adopt Christianity. That way I was better able to control the religious spread and the vote, but I don't know if this is best for this size map.

I was a bit slow, going after Iron Working before starting the religious line. I thought I might need a few more cities, and any expansion required me to get IW. Again, I'm not sure if this is best, I'll probably try going without IW in another try.

Right now my plan is to start pumping out missionaries and a few more settlers. I have 5 cities, I can give 2 or 3 of them to spread religion. I plan to just spread my religion with a missionary to those civs that have another state religion, gifting to those that don't (this may change). This is going to take careful calculations, which in the past have been thrown for a loop as an AI civ spreads the religion to another city or adopts it as his/her state religion. I hesitate to predict a date for my game... I'm hoping for 400AD.

I think an Industrious leader might be required to shorten the time to build the AP, as marble or stone don't help. I am hesitating to use the whip too much until I can figure out what population I'll need.

The general plan was this

1. Find all the opponents - DONE. I got two experience hut pops, so a Woodsman 3 unit was very useful on this map.

2. Oracle pop Theology - DONE

3. Build the AP - DONE

4. Spread the religion to all other civs, carefully. If you want to take advantage of the expand your vote on the last turn to self vote yourself in, careful calculation is required. - need to do

5. Try to foster good relations with at least 2 other civ's in case you need to get one of their votes - I have one pleased right now, and I haven't gifted any cities yet. No shared religion bonuses yet either.

6. Win the vote.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

@ArcadicGamer: good luck finishing in 0AD I think you might slip to 1AD

I'll take it ether way.

I should mention that i've found it extremely rare that i start anywhere near the center, and all civs start on the edges too. Since Flat is the only legal world wrap, it makes the traveling hard.

I used Ramsess for my attempts so far. Tech path went Myst>Poly>Masonry>Mono>Workertechs>Writing>Alphabet. I used any other tech after to gift to every non-founding religion AI. I've founded Judiasm and Christianity in all my games. Workers are the key to my starts, chopping jungle and such. (i go mining, bronze, iron, if i dont need AH for pigs) I used Oracle for Theocracy and used the UB late to generate a GP to bulb Philo as a great gift. The main problem i have is simply having too much population to get the vote to trigger.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

The AP has to be the most frustrating VC i have ever seen. I was cruising for a 0 AD finish today, only the votes for the AP didnt show up till around 200AD. The only vote i got before then was when i built the ap around 1500bc, and voted as the leader. This is most likely caused by the fact i had 75% of the pop.

Yes, if the religion hasn't spread to all AIs yet, or if you have more than 75% of the votes, you won't see a vote for victory.

And if there's no war going on between 'Believers' and 'Infidels', the other votes aren't available neither, so you won't see any votes at all ...



Another question: is it allowed to use that loophole to elect yourself the winner by accepting the religion on the turn the vote shows up, or is that considered cheating?

 

[jesusin]

Yes, if the religion hasn't spread to all AIs yet, or if you have more than 75% of the votes, you won't see a vote for victory.

And if there's no war going on between 'Believers' and 'Infidels', the other votes aren't available neither, so you won't see any votes at all ...

What about the OB among believers? I've seen no votes at all when there were still closed borders.

I really think there is a bug around. If interested, read jesusin's BOTM2 spoilers and Da Vinci's BOTM1 spoilers for more info.

 

[bestje]

Turn 6: I popped Bronze and Iron working. Is that good?

why does that never happen to me on rainforest maps?
those are two great hut pops especially as they let you start clearing jungle immediately

 

[Thrallia]

hm...I did random opponents and got Toku on the farthest edge of the map...didn't know that until 1AD though...I had 4 explorers in a row get eaten by panthers and bears.

I forgot that writing was a prereq for Theo, so couldn't bulb Theo with it...got a GE for my first Great Person, and a GS(@14% odds, 60% odds for GP) which didn't help me since I was trying to bulb Theo again. I didn't found any religions, but Izzy founded Christianity(choose religions was on), and spread it to me as soon as we had OB, then we jointly spread it to gilgamesh, elizabeth, qin, and charlemagne. I didn't spread it to Toku until ~1000AD, when I declared war on him just after he captured a barb city, I took it, gave it christianity, and let him retake it...forcing him a few turns later into peace via the AP.

Unfortunately, while I wasn't paying attention, Izzy passed me in pop, so when I let Charlemagne take the AP from me, I was no longer a candidate for a religious win I gave up in the mid 1400s, as I realized I woudl never catch up to Izzy, as she'd grabbed a bunch of good city spots I never saw thanks to my lost explorers

 

[ArcadicGamer]

I'm closing in on 1AD. I managed to savlage a horrible starting location. (peaks all along my E and NW borders) to get a vote in 125AD only to have natural religion spread make Washington 2nd in the options vs Alex like i planned. I spread Judiasm to his capitol, while spreading it to 1 pop cities in ever other civ. Lost by 2 votes, getting churchill to vote for me, washington would have most likely voted for me with him being pleased also.

I managed to hoard all the early religions except buddism. Built 3 cities with optimal farming locations and decent hammer production, built 7 workers for roading the center of the map, saving around 40 turns on my horrible location, but most likely more would be saved if the routes were direct. I also accidently closed my borders with Willhelm before spreading the religion, which delayed the vote about 10 turns. This also lead to a minor revalation about the vote, as it appeared the TURN AFTER the religion spread.

I made sure someone could be my voting rival before building the AP, which allowed for some other votes to be able to take place, mainly re-election, while in my other game no other vote ever came till 1000ad where the population dropped below the threashold.

My Plan:
Religion Hoard all the religions except 1, which can be used to automaticly have a rival.
Spread early to farthest rivals and come back towards the neighboors. Ensure that one is spread in a higher pop city, and prioritize relations with them. (Elizibeth and Washington have proved good at this) Bonus if the civ doesnt prioritize religious techs to spread it themselves. (list?)
Trade/Gift all techs non-religious for relations, and give resources if not needed.
2 Cities with farm-able resources/land and some PH for hammers. 1 City more can be almost anything, more cities usualy lead to too much population.
Oracle/AP in Capitol. Dont adopt a religion till you can secure open borders with all civs. (this delays the AP, but not by much as you should be able to sign immediatly after meeting/researching writing.)

If i decide to delay my vista and vid card upgrade, i hope to reach my goal tonight.

 

[Methos]

If i decide to delay my vista and vid card upgrade, i hope to reach my goal tonight.

I suggest you finish your current game before upgrading to Vista. I also suggest that once you do upgrade, you first send in a simple test game to test your hof settings (i.e. duel settler conquest on marathon). We're having issues with vista, so to make things less frustrating, use a test game before playing any other hof game. The test game I suggested takes about two minutes to play, so no biggie if it gets rejected.

 

[hecubus]

I can't believe I didn't notice that Priesthood functions as a prerequisite for Writing until now.