G-Minor I

[jesusin]

@WastinTime: I thought only cities size 1 with NO culture were destroyed. Since the city has a palace, couldn't you capture it at size 1, or not?

Oh, I never thought of that. I have only attacked before their first border expansion (razed) or after pop is 2 (kept), I have never tried in between. I will try that.

 

[fdl9]

I just played my first game... 1676AD finish. i guess i have a lot to learn. I'll definitely be looking for better starting positions, not just the first map that gets generated.

Did a bit better now... 1580AD. Still need to pay more attention to the techs to do better, and use the great people for the right things. One more try tomorrow...

 

[godotnut]

10 BC.

Well, I finally met my goal of a B.C. finish--just barely. It took a while, but it's a satisfying feeling.

I think I played a little differently than the other B.C. finishers. I popped two settlers, and I sent my warrior to the borders of Monty's capital and waited until it hit size two (by the way, it MUST be size two to keep it; culture doesn't do it). I then invaded and took his undefended city, giving me a total of four starting cities. Nice.

So I didn't research alphabet, teched everything myself, and didn't go for the free great artist. This worked better for my style of play, saving me about four turns of research, not including whatever the free city gave me.

I learned a lot about diplo games in this Gauntlet. It's been fun. I'll check in to this thread from time to time, but I doubt I'll have time to try again. Good luck to all in this Gauntlet!

 

[Kalleyao]

You all finish very fast. My quickest was 1000 AD.

 

[Big_Ben]

Just finished my first real non-OCC attempt. I blew the best possible start I could have had. I managed to pop 3 settlers, a worker, and 90 gold pieces. I then took out HC since the capital city was in a great location. I built 2 more cities on top of that, don't think I should have. Both were in pretty jungle dense locations which didn't allow me to get cottages down right away. Think that hurt me. I only generated a GE and got the GS from physics which I used for electricity. Wish I would have forced a GS early to get my tech rate up.

Anyway, I finished 350 AD which is better than my best OCC finish but I could definitely have improved on that start. I think I may replay the start file just to see how well I could have done. Anyone else want to give it a go? I will post up the save after I popped the 3rd settler before my first city is settled to see if anyone wants to give it a shot to see what they could do.

 

[Grifftavian]

Just finished my first attempt in 1304 AD. I was playing with Temperate climate and High sealevel; is there a better combination for G-Minor I?

Started on the same continent as HC. Got lucky and popped two settlers early, then built two more. Basically trapped HC and forced him to play OCC! Toward the end of the game, I rolled the mouse over HC's captial, and it said it was 71% Incan; I guess the other 29% were illegal American immigrants!

Started reasearch with Myst./Polytheism and founded Hinduism in New York. Converted right away. Next went with Masonary/Pottery/Monotheism and founded Judaism in Boston (should have waited on Pottery, but got Judaism anyway). Next was Bronze Working so the workers could start chopping, then went with Hunting/Animal Husbandry for the workers, Archery for Defense, then Priesthood for the Oracle. Reasearched Writing/Sailing/Iron Working next while building the Oracle. Got Theology for free with The Oracle, and founded Christianity in Philadelphia. Got a free missionary with Christianity, sent it to Washington to spread the religion, then converted to Christianity. Monte founded Buddaism over on the other continent, so HC was stuck without an early religion. Used my first Great Prophet to build Church of the Nativity, and Christianity evently spread to the Inca capital.

Built a Caravel and was first to sail around the world, after bumping into Monte's continent. Used the Caravel to send Christian Missionaries to Monte. Eventually built two more cities, one on a small three tile island that had crabs offshore, and later discovered Uranium in the one Hill on the island and oil offshore. The other city was on the extreme south end of Monte's continent, not a great location, but it locked up the last oil reasource for me.

Saved two Great Engineers toward the end, and used them to built the UN in one turn! Had more than enough votes to elect myself Secretary General, then declare the Dipolmatic Victory.

 

[12Voltman]

I got my diplo at 1472AD on my first attempt. Wasted about 18 turns because I forgot to use my scientist to fininsh the UN...knucklehead.

How do you guys get to Mass Media so quicky. It took me forever. I must be researching way too many extra techs. Basically, I do the Oracle/CS slingshot then just click on Mass Media. I assumed that was the path of least resistance, but maybe not.

 

[Grifftavian]

How do you guys get to Mass Media so quicky. It took me forever. I must be researching way too many extra techs. Basically, I do the Oracle/CS slingshot then just click on Mass Media. I assumed that was the path of least resistance, but maybe not.

I clicked on Mass Media at turn one, it gives you just the required techs to get to Mass Media, but not (IMO) the best path to get there. Mass Media was tech #24 when I did this, but it had Astronomy as #12, then all the way back to Masonary for #13. I wrote them all down, then reorganized then to reasearch the cheaper techs first, when I had fewer beakers available.

Be aware that some techs that you may want/need are not included in the quick and dirty path. Priesthood (and therefore The Oracle) are not required for Mass Media! Neither are Hunting/Animal Husbandry if your workers need those for resources, nor Archery for city defense.

 

[12Voltman]

Thanks Griff, that sounds logical. I'll try writing them down and researching low cost techs 1st.

 

[12Voltman]

Ok, that stunk. I did worse this time around getting the diplo at like 1520. I thought I had a great starting position but popped a map and BW. BW was nice, but a settler or two would have been better.

I don't have time to regenerate 50-100 maps, so I have to do with the 2 starts I was given. It was fun, but I still can't figure out how it is possible to get MM in the BC's. You guys kill me.

 

[Big_Ben]

I can tell you both your major mistakes.

1) You are researching too much. When you are playing a peaceful game you don't need to research techs like animal husbandry, religious techs, or any other beginning tech. To improve your speed, research straight to alphabet and trade for all of those techs.

2) Religions aren't important. You don't need to found the religions. At settler level playing a peaceful game the AIs will be happy towards you, don't need to convert them.

3) Building too much. In your cities you will need a granary and library. Temples are good for happiness, aquaduct for health. Other than that, you don't need to build anything else really. (except certain wonders).

4) Wonders. The pyramids are good. The Oracle is good. Hanging Gardens is ok. Everything else is a waste.

5) Oracle. At the settler level the opponent will never beat you to the Oracle. I use the Oracle for either physics or radio, depending on my tech speed. I use liberalism for the other one.

6) Units and stuff. You can build 1 warrior/archer for each city for the happiness. You don't need any other military. You don't need ships, sailing is a waste of turns.

7) Cottages. Cottages give you money and in turn tech. You should have every square that isn't a hill or resource built with a cottage. You should get them built and worked as soon as possible.

Those will be your major problems. I know it is hard to break some of those habits, I had a hard time when I first started playing the gauntlets. But those are everyone's major problems.

As for the best tech path. I am not 100% sure. I do know one of the fastest tech paths that will definitely improve your time is this. Just click on each tech whenever you have to pick something new to research. Will autodraw the path.

Alphabet (then trade techs as soon as the opponent researches a new one)
2 turns of mathematics (do this so you can trade for mysticism and either meditation or polytheism)
Civil Service
Mathematics
Build the pyramids to start getting a great engineer
Scientific Method
Education
Use Oracle for Physics
Electricity (use the free great scientist to help research electricity, you have to already have researched education first)
Liberalism
Use liberalism for Radio
Mass Media
Use great engineer to help with UN

There you go. Fix the problems I listed at the top and follow that tech path and you can finish between 1000-1300 AD. Once you learn that post back and I can give you pointers to drop it to 500-800 AD.

 

[Sumorex]

Good suggestions on how to speed up finishes. Thought I'd add some comments.

Still monkeying around with the Alphabet first route and I'm not liking it quite as much as my usual path. I'm finding that Huayna (who is always my choice for sharing a continent) doesn't fill in the blanks fast enough for me. I've found Slavery, chopping, and pastures are too key for rapid starts. I could probably alter my starting locations for this to impact me less, but it sure is nice to be able to whip out a library and forge to get to work on GP's.

The only religion you 'need' comes from Code of Laws. That is usually enough to get border expansions and happiness bonuses. It is all too convienent because you are going to want Code of Laws anyway to get Civil Service.

Granary and library are the only two always builds for me. Everything else is optional and can change game to game. Resist the Sim City builder mentality because at this difficulty level you simply don't need much in every city.

I'm going to disagree with you about the Pyramids. Having a stone resource is the only time I've ever built them in these games, which is rare considering stone usually isn't around the terrain I want to work. Even with stone, the Pyramids cost roughly 4x what a forge does. Yes, the Pyramids will give you free GP points, but constructing it will tie 1 city up for a very long time. I believe it is quicker to chop/whip a forge in a high food city, then pull workers into the specialist pool. I'm usually running 1 Engineer for awhile, then adding in 2 Scientists to get the GP pop to occur at the turn I want. It retards a single city's growth, but I almost always settle that city for that single purpose.

The Oracle I usually use to get Physics after I had 1 game where it got ganked from me as I was almost to Radio. Liberalism is a safer bet to get Radio.

Right on about military. 1 warrior per city is all I ever build. I've never had the AI attack me, and any demands they have I just give it to them without worry. I do a late game tech dump to my neighbor to ensure he votes for me anyway.

Cottaging up is definitely the most problematic part of my games. I get tunnel vision on my specialists too often and don't get my cottages grown up quick enough.


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One thing you didn't touch on is starting position and goody huts. I've found these to be true:

1) Long river: You want LOTS of river tiles to take advantage of the Financial trait if you are playing Washington

2) Heavy food: My best games are when I have tons of food resources and flood plains

3) Settler goody: One of your huts MUST be a Settler. You can get a 200-500AD finish without a Settler pop, but you won't break the BC without at least 1. I abandon any game I don't have at least 1 pop, and abandon games with 1 pop if my terrain/resources are weak.

4) Forests: If you only pop 1 Engineer (thats all I usually manage) then you need to have a minimum of 5-6 forests inside your fat cross to chop for a 1 turn UN. Maybe someone else has an alternative to this that doesn't involve a 2nd Engineer, but thats been my experience.

5) Regenerate, regenerate, regenerate: Did I say regenerate? Contest like this you are wasting your time if you play weak starting positions unless you are just learning the techniques. On this map scale regenerating bad starts is very quick anyway. I believe they said it as okay to line up multiple starting positions you like to play back to back to back. So you can spend an hour generating maps and saving the ones you think have promise without actually playing a single move. Then plug thru each one looking for fast settler pops.

 

[Big_Ben]

Good points. It was late last night when I was trying to think of all of the big ones. I usually need the pyramids for happiness since I expand my cities so fast but I am seeing that playing non-OCC i have more than enough pop to win. Going to try it without the pyramids to see how I do.

I myself am not as big a regenerator as some of the people on here. But in turn I am also not in the top 5 finishes right now. In the past I have regenerated until I have popped a settler on the first turn. Usually about 1 in 20 regens gets it. I have started to regen and save possible good starts. I would say a possible good start is about 1 in 2.5 or so. I have been saving the first 10 possibles then playing them until i pop all the goody huts.

And just so all the new people know, a game like this, with these settings on the this level, will take about 1-1.5 hours to play if you want a competitive finish. I finished in 40 minutes on OCC the other day. A gauntlet like this won't take 5+ hours of play time.

 

[Miraculix]

I have been investigating what winning date I can achieve with exactly one settler pop. So far I have not been patient enough to wait for a map where I pop more than one settler. My best game up til now with only one settler pop resulted in a 590AD win. Since I believe the winning date depends highly on the number of settlers you are lucky/patient enough to pop, it would be interesting to compare this game to other games with exactly one settler pop.

For this particular case I have found three cities to be a good choice:
1st city: Capital
2nd city: Built from a 4000BC settler pop. I make use of 'Regenerate Map',to reject all maps that doesn't give a settler in 4000 BC.
3rd city: From capturing the capital of the enemy on the same continent. By choosing 'No City Razing' in the Custom Game menu, one can capture this city within the first 10-15 turns within razing it.

There is a trade-off between commerce from additional cities and the turns used to build settlers during which your initial cities don't grow. In one game, I tried to build two additional cities. This resulted in a slower initial tech pace, while the end-game pace was faster. The winning year was 710 AD, which is slightly worse than my three-city game.

There is also a trade-off between keeping the on-continent enemy alive for technology trading, and getting one extra city. I have found technology trading in this case to be non-efficient. Typically, researching alphabet immediately after writing, takes 15-20 turns. However, the technologies that can be traded from the AI after learning Alphabet, I can research myself using a total of about 25 turns if I research them immediately, and even less if I wait until they are needed. On the other hand, Alphabet can be researched in one turn if I research it near the end of the game when it is needed for Music (Great Artist). All in all, I don't see much advantage in saving the enemy for technology trading. On the other hand, the benefit from the captured city is non-disputable. Also, by eliminating the enemy on the same continent, I don't get any problem with the UN voting due to different religions.

City locations:
At least the capital should be surounded with at least 5 food plain tiles and preferably some forests and hills.

Research:
Immediate needs: Pottery(cottage),Writing(library),Bronze working(forest chops)
Main research path: After Bronze working, the path given by clicking on Mass media.
Detours: Metal casting(forge), Animal husbandry(pasture), Hunting(camp), Priesthood(oracle), Liberalism(free technology), Music/Litterature/Drama/Monarchy (free Artist for Mass Media)
The detours from the main research path are taken just before they are needed.

Workers:
One per city. This is not quite enough to keep up with the city growth, resulting in some unimproved tiles during the course of the game. On the other hand, by building only one worker per city, city growth can start earlier.

Improvements:
1. Cottages in food-rich tiles
2. Improved tiles with resources
3. Roads to connect cities and resources

General City builds in prioritized order:
1. worker
2. library (using forest chops)
3. warrior
4. granary
5. others (optional)

One city builds:
1. Forge (to build Great Engineer)
2. Oracle (to get free technology - used for radio)

Great People:
Great Scientist1: From using two scientists in a city with library - used for Scientific Method
Great Scientist2: From Physics - used for Electricity
Great Artist: From Music - used for Mass media
Great Engineer: From using one engineer in a city with forge - used for UN

Possible improvement:
Use pre-chops to get the UN quicker.

This srategy resulted in a 590AD win. Some people claims it is possible to have a BC win with only one settler pop. If that is true, I am obviously missing something.

 

[12Voltman]

Thanks Big Ben & Sumorex! I'll give those a shot when I get a chance.

 

[godotnut]

Miraculix said:

Possible improvement:
Use pre-chops to get the UN quicker.

Oh you should definitely do this, in my opinion. I pre-chopped about eight forests in my reserved U.N.-destined city (some fairly far away), and I had workers waiting in four of them. If the U.N. is taking more than three or four turns to build (with an Engineer), than I think you're cheating yourself of an earlier finish. I think DaveMcW, who last I heard had the fastest finish so far, produced the U.N. in a single turn.

 

[Big_Ben]

Just for comparison I think I may have one of the fastest OCC finish dates. I have 350 and 470 AD OCC finish dates. I should have finished a lot earlier on the 470 finish, I hade a couple of 1-2 turn mistakes in the beginning but overall I just played the endgame poorly. Took over 8 turns to finish the UN which could have helped me out a lot.

 

[Big_Ben]

lol, wanted to get a quick game in, played an OCC game in 33 minutes with a 650 AD finish. If I would have taken my time I could have improved on that but oh well. I want a BC finish for this gauntlet. Don't think I have enough time to get one OCC so I'm going with regular games tomorrow after work. Then it'll be time for Major I

 

[WastinTime]

After my first run at OCC bombed, I did it one more time. .... my dates were: 100 BC UN complete. 10 BC Diplo win. Now I've moved on to non-OCC. It should be faster, especially with free settlers/workers....

Before I gave up on OCC, I did manage a 10 BC win.

 

[Kalleyao]

I screw up . I popped 2 settlers and 1 worker and finished 400 AD.