G-Minor LXXII

[Memoryjar]

Would love to hear more opinions about peace vs war approach.

Warlord, so you need to reach Information Era to have United Nations, in a peaceful game. With only one civ alive, you just need to reach Atomic Era.

You can clear the map from start to end (chariots archers rocks on great plains). Tommy made it in a GOTM with Venice (74, I think). He gifts cities to the same nation. So at last, AI razes cities for you. No unhappiness, and some gold sometimes. I start to do this, gifting cities to an AI lost in forest.

Issue are barbs. Because there's a lot of free space after you burn all people, barbs spawn again and again. They come with same techs, so you manage barbs infantries around T180-200. On great plains, that's a lot of barbs camps.

Without mountain, peaceful, you can't make a better time than with war. It's just a big lot of additionnal clicks.

 

[Cromagnus]

Gifting doesn't always work. I've had the AI liberate cities I gift before. Maybe they never do this with capitals?

 

[klaskeren]

Oh now checking the occ box. That would solve the issues involved with taking 8 capitals... Sneaky. But OCC tech usually is slow, especially if you're fielding an army early. Can't imagine that would be the fastest path to victory... But it would mean only needing to get to the atomic. Hmm.

well sometimes OCC is the best option, but mostly for early domination, i did it in an atilla game, aswell as the GMajor with indonesia using galleas, but i dont think its worth it in this case, because your science will be too low.

 

[Majestic Emu]

t288 on my first try. Managed to finish Globalization 1 turn before the first world leader vote, didn't need it with Forbidden Palace + World Ideology, but nice to know I can time things right. My biggest problem is the combination of Warlord and being the Shoshone (my favorite civ), I wind up just having fun instead of optimizing

When the whole world wants to gang up on Egypt, my neighbor who keeps missionary/prophet bombing me, how can I refuse spending a few turns steamrolling his cities?!

 

[Memoryjar]

Gifting doesn't always work. I've had the AI liberate cities I gift before. Maybe they never do this with capitals?

They never do this with capitals. I had sometimes AI liberate cities, but not enough to avoid to do this.

 

[Cromagnus]

They never do this with capitals. I had sometimes AI liberate cities, but not enough to avoid to do this.

Yeah, that makes sense. They never offer up capitals in peace deals either.

 

[Xger]

These explanations don't make sense to me...

2. I think the first Host vote is always 10 turns after the first Proposal vote. This is just a world congress Host vote until the world enters the Atomic. So if you enter Atomic before the first Proposal vote, it's a World Leader vote.

The first host is just the first civ to both meet everyone and research Printing Press. Host votes only occur on era changes otherwise.

This is why if you can't clear the map within 30 turns of teching Printing Press, you're better off going peaceful. If you tech Printing Press on t145, shortly before bulbing sci theory on t150, (for example) you should be able to enter the Information era by t200, triggering a world's leader vote on t211. (t205 + 6, 2 for each era change)

I may be misreading this, but you can clear before printing press as well.

There may be an additional +2 for each new proposal. I can't recall.

It's 1 turn. Turn 0 on the timer is the vote, the next turn is proposal, then the following turn is x9 til next (so for example, 1 turn to go, vote, proposal [30 turns to go], then 29 - 1, 0, 30, 29). At least that's how I had always worked it out.

 

[klaskeren]

T124, got printing press, going peacefully.

 

[Cromagnus]

These explanations don't make sense to me...
The first host is just the first civ to both meet everyone and research Printing Press. Host votes only occur on era changes otherwise.
I may be misreading this, but you can clear before printing press as well.

It's 1 turn. Turn 0 on the timer is the vote, the next turn is proposal, then the following turn is x9 til next (so for example, 1 turn to go, vote, proposal [30 turns to go], then 29 - 1, 0, 30, 29). At least that's how I had always worked it out.

Yes you can clear before printing press, I just meant that you had to finish within 30 turns of researching it if you hadn't already. I specified "first" host *vote* to differentiate it from the automatic host from printing press. And there are two times when host votes come up. 1) era changes, 2) every other vote. (Proposal, then host, then Proposal, then host, etcetera)

 

[klaskeren]

now we are talking science, got secularism

 

[sanabas]

And there are two times when host votes come up. 1) era changes, 2) every other vote. (Proposal, then host, then Proposal, then host, etcetera)

That's wrong. There are only host votes when the world's era changes. It goes proposal-proposal-proposal while it is the league of nations, and then once it changes to the UN, it will be proposal-diplomatic win-proposal-diplomatic win-etc.

I did put it in one of the earlier gauntlet threads, it's roughly 56? or 61 turns from printing press to needing to reach UN, if you plan to make 2 proposals. That's 30 + 20 + 2 per era change, or 30 + 25 + 2 per era change, depending on how quickly you kill off the AI/what tech you're at when the first proposal is voted on. Forget the exact number, I'd need to check it again. Then 10 more turns to actual victory.

If you only want 1 proposal, you'll likely need to delay printing press quite a bit. If you beeline printing press, you might end up with 3 proposals, and ~90 turns from printing press to victory.

 

[Cromagnus]

Wait, you're saying the host NEVER changes unless the era changes?? That doesn't seem right, or at least it doesn't match my perception... I'll have to pay closer attention. That's just weird... I really thought the host vote came up after each proposal.

 

[Cromagnus]

now we are talking science, got secularism

Based on the fact you're researching Economics, I'm guessing you hit Printing Press on ~t120, which means you'll have to hit the Info Era by ~t184 or you'll end up waiting until ~t216. Assuming you continue to play peaceful. 438 beakers on t128 is a lot, but is it enough to hit Info by t180? Impressive nonetheless.

Shoshone are so bad-ass. I tried to explain in the Deity Tier thread why they're 100% top tier but there is a marked lack of appreciation in that thread for the snowball effect.

I'm only about 70 turns into my first game, but the production on Great Plains Plus is so ridiculous! And all the free techs from ruins is ludicrous. So far I've built GL & Oracle *and* got 3 expos out, all while building 6 chariot archers and completing tons of CS barb camp quests. NC is an 8 turn build in 2 turns when my last library finishes. So much production! And so much growth from all the maritime CS. I can only imagine what a pure science/growth focus could do on this map. I'm not even really playing efficiently, but the combination of GPP and Shoshone is just pure OP it doesn't matter.

 

[klaskeren]

stopped this playsession for now, its becoming dubious if i will make the approx t 182-184 info era benchmark, have currently 750 science at turn 149 but alot of techs to go and only faith for one scientist, also no good way of getting coal

 

[casualplayer]

Bulbed to finish researching Atomic Theory Turn 199 with 3 Turns before the next vote, just me and two other civs left, cleared it by 200 beakers, didn't pop until the next Turn! So instead of a 200 something Diplo V finish it got pushed out to 230 something. Darn. At least I got the 5 Ruins with one Pathfinder achievement.

I had never seen Forest Hill River Desert tiles before this map. Great Plains Plus is crazy.

 

[sanabas]

Wait, you're saying the host NEVER changes unless the era changes?? That doesn't seem right, or at least it doesn't match my perception... I'll have to pay closer attention. That's just weird... I really thought the host vote came up after each proposal.

Yep, host won't change unless era does. Unless the diplo win vote also has the power to change the host, but I have no clue if that's the case.

 

[Cromagnus]

Bulbed to finish researching Atomic Theory Turn 199 with 3 Turns before the next vote, just me and two other civs left, cleared it by 200 beakers, didn't pop until the next Turn! So instead of a 200 something Diplo V finish it got pushed out to 230 something. Darn. At least I got the 5 Ruins with one Pathfinder achievement.

I had never seen Forest Hill River Desert tiles before this map. Great Plains Plus is crazy.

Ah, right, sometimes a bulb won't carry you over to the next tech until the next turn even if there's excess. I haven't quite figured out why that sometimes happens yet. That sucks! Sounds like you were on track for a good finish.

 

[Xger]

Yep, host won't change unless era does. Unless the diplo win vote also has the power to change the host, but I have no clue if that's the case.

Only era changes, once it is the UN that host remains for the remainder of the game.

 

[Memoryjar]

also no good way of getting coal

How many games I had that. Doesn't matter, I'll have Uranium instead. Humm, not and only 3 alu. Time to quit this game. My common SV way.

 

[casualplayer]

Does the Coal-less lament mean that you were fully intending to go Order, for beaker-boosting Factories, rather than Freedom? I still haven't decided which Ideology I prefer.

I'm usually choosing my Ideology before I even know if I have Coal (Radio long before Industrialization.) Plus I am horribly unlucky with late-game strategics being within my borders so I routinely have a Turn 180 Settler ready just to go get me some Coal or Aluminum. Of course, if you are eliminating all the other civs then the City-States tech at about your speed and the allied ones can gift you their strategics.