Game pacing and flow

[Civsassin]

I really like CiV, and I am especially looking forward to G&K. That said, I think the game may have some pacing issues with a new era added if the developers don't take action to change the games pacing.

I play on Immortal, and I never made it past ~400 turns. Since the game is set at 500turns maximim, I usually have very little activity in the later part of the game. Because the nuclear part of the tree isn't necessary for either a diplomatic or science victory, I've only been down the path a few times. I don't know if I've ever even fought with a GDR. Besides the fact that there are no new wonders in down that path that make it worthwhile.

With a new era added into the game, I wonder if it will push the game into later turns to complete. I usually finish between 300-350 turns. Here are a few questions:

1. Will the typical game now take more turns to complete?
2. Will the future era be further into the future and take longer to reach?
3. Will the tech tree be revamped to make the nuclear path part of a normal victory path?
4. Will new wonders be added to the nuclear path?
5. Will the nuclear path remain the nuclear path?
6. Will the game be repaced to take advantage of the new era, while applying a forcing mechanism to make players go into the future era?

I am interested to hear from the forum if anything about G&K that has been announced to date gives us insight to the answers to these questions or others. I look forward to the proceeding discussions.

 

[stfoskey12]

1. Probably, becuase if more techs are added, then it is unlikely that they will make the game take the same or less time, so I would say yes.

 

[bonafide11]

I don't know if I've ever even fought with a GDR.

I usually go for a domination victory and I have NEVER built a GDR and I don't even know what tech unlocks it. I play on higher difficulties too, but I have never gotten that far in the game. So yeah, they need to improve pacing of the late game.

 

[Buccaneer]

Same here, never seen one. Although I have not made it to the Future Era, I've seen the AI do plently of times but never built a GDR (good thing too, pretty stupid unit to have in the game imo).

I am concerned about pacing too. Since I love long standard games and play quite methodically, the increased times to make a unit kill may make long games a bit much.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I built them once because they were fun. No real point to them, of course.

 

[MadDjinn]

To slow the game down, they'd have to 'slow down' the tech race.

more techs only 'slightly' does that, but vanilla had a fairly short tech tree already, so anything new helps there.

otherwise, we'll have to wait to see what happened on the tech side, which they've obviously been trying to hide as much as possible, likely to show it last.

 

[AriochIV]

Since they have added new techs, a whole new "era" of units, and an actual new technological Era, I think it goes without saying that they've had to readjust the pace of the game. It remains to be seen if they did a good job of it.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

Yep, building a GDR is something you pretty much have to aim for in a game. I have been trying to delay wins lately to get a bit more experience playing in the future era. I am not very good at it. I tend to be pretty lazy with unit control at that point.

As far as the OP questions, sorry i have no answers, let's hope for the best. Wild guessing below...

1. Will the typical game now take more turns to complete?
Tough one, I am going to guess yes, but not by much. It seems that they would like to keep the gameplay about the same time in length.

2. Will the future era be further into the future and take longer to reach?
I would guess no, I do not see any changes to the future era yet. It is called G&K. I would certainly be all for a future expansion of the modern and future eras, but I think you might be catering to more hardcore players at that point. To make it work you would really have to have a viable start in the modern era. Most players are not going to play a game for that many turns.

3. Will the tech tree be revamped to make the nuclear path part of a normal victory path?

4. Will new wonders be added to the nuclear path?
5. Will the nuclear path remain the nuclear path?
6. Will the game be repaced to take advantage of the new era, while applying a forcing mechanism to make players go into the future era?

I think my first 2 answers covered the rest.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think GDR was designed as a unit for runaway civilizations to just get the game over with, since they are most powerful units in the game, and can take out units in a single hit.

 

[Montov]

3. Will the tech tree be revamped to make the nuclear path part of a normal victory path?

It already is on the path of Domination. Get nukes, and the game can be over very quickly. Luckily G+K have some counter measures to nukes, so maybe I don't need a mod anymore to mod them out the game because it is just ridiculous overpowered.

 

[Montov]

In Vanilla, RA's and Great Scientist are the biggest reasons why the late game goes so fast, and it is confirmed RA's will be more sparse. And new techs also help. And the new 100HP system also tends to slow the pacing.

 

[Civsassin]

@ Montov: your post brings up some good points. With the nerf to RAs, new techs/era, and 100 hpt system SHOULD make the game last longer.

To be honest, I don't normally go for a domination victory, but I have a few times. You can still win a domination victory without going all the way down the nuclear path. In most games, I do venture down the nuclear path to get uranium and nuclear plants and bombs. I typically don't go further than that.

@ Hustapha Thool: If I am not mistaken, in CiIV, you had to go down its nuclear path to gain access to some of the spaceship parts. I was wondering if there was any indication they would revamp the tech tree to employ a similar mechanism to force players down that path. If they do, and considering the things Montov brought up, it could add 50+ turns to a normal game unless they change game pacing as AriochIV suggested.

 

[comatosedragon]

They may even add more turns to the game to compensate. IIRC the BtS expansion extended Civ IV by 50 turns.

 

[Ajuga]

I think it would also help the pacing if Great Scientists don't give an instant free technology but rather give breakers based on similar formula of that of the new research agreements in GAK.

 

[Camikaze]

To slow the game down, they'd have to 'slow down' the tech race.

more techs only 'slightly' does that, but vanilla had a fairly short tech tree already, so anything new helps there.

otherwise, we'll have to wait to see what happened on the tech side, which they've obviously been trying to hide as much as possible, likely to show it last.

Well, there's the thing with RAs requiring friendship, which sounds like it'll slow down tech acquisition.

 

[apocalypse105]

To slow the game down, they'd have to 'slow down' the tech race.

more techs only 'slightly' does that, but vanilla had a fairly short tech tree already, so anything new helps there.

otherwise, we'll have to wait to see what happened on the tech side, which they've obviously been trying to hide as much as possible, likely to show it last.

Well nerving the great scientist so you can't race through the modern era just by stacking great scientists.

If you say great people in civ 5 everyone goes for great scientist never a great merchant

Its hilarious

 

[The Mad Russian]

I'm the exact opposite. I only play Future Era starts because I've never been good at Traditional Ancient Start Civ since Civ III. So I see plenty of GDRs, mine and other Civs. *shrug* I guess I'm just more comfortable playing that way.

-Mark

 

[MadDjinn]

Well, there's the thing with RAs requiring friendship, which sounds like it'll slow down tech acquisition.

Only so much though. If you can play more 'peacefully' in the early game, then DoFs shouldn't be hard to find. Though I'm sure competing religions will cause some strife, the other 1/2 of the civs aren't likely to get mad over it.

Well nerving the great scientist so you can't race through the modern era just by stacking great scientists.

If you say great people in civ 5 everyone goes for great scientist never a great merchant

Its hilarious

yeah, it'd be nice for some balance between the great people. Make the others worth getting (other than engineers to bulb a wonder or artists in a culture game).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I built them once because they were fun. No real point to them, of course.

Build them and gift them to two citystates that are fighting each other. It's like putting a bunch of ants from different colonies in a jar and shaking it up.

 

[Montov]

Only so much though. If you can play more 'peacefully' in the early game, then DoFs shouldn't be hard to find. Though I'm sure competing religions will cause some strife, the other 1/2 of the civs aren't likely to get mad over it.

Still, for (early) domination you make a lot of enemies, and war is a very good strategy to advance now. Making peace more profitable is making the choice between aggression and peace a better one.