Game settings: Tech tradings

[Gingi]

I suppose this brings up the question: Will alliance wins be on or off? I don't like the idea of alliance wins. Having only one winning team means at some point allies will have to stab each other, which adds so much intrigue. Reminds me of the game Diplomacy.

I don't like the idea of joint wins either. For the same reason as the ones you stated, and if alliance wins are on, I can almost guarantee to you that the winner is going to be an alliance. Because one civ just can't compete with two in MP. And if an alliance wins, it'll spark up a lot of debate and argument like the last BTS MTD, and there'll be another stupid "controversial finish". That would just suck. Cause the AMAZONs are going to win, and they're going to win alone!

 

[remake20]

I think people can be allied, but defiantly no alliance in-game (like offering alliance through diplo).

 

[damnrunner]

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the "no tech brokering" option doesn't need policing at all. The game simply won't let you trade a tech you received from a trade, therefore I don't think that that option would lead to a more complex game.

I did not know that was a game option - that would make it a lot easier to implement.

However - it would still incentivize locked alliances or 2 teams.

 

[SilentConfusion]

This poll is closed, but I thought I'd post the people who have said they wanted to change their votes all in one post so they don't get lost in all the discussion.

Oops, I voted wrong. It shows I voted for "Bo Tech brokering", which means No ofcourse. I want normal tech stuff.

This is minus one from No Tech Brokering, and plus one for Normal.

Normal tech trading is the best option IMHO. You don't want that teams trade techs that you just gave them to a hostile team.

Ow god it was early this morning. Sorry, I was still sleeping. Of course I mean no tech brokering. Also voted wrong...

This is minus one for Normal, plus one for No Tech Brokering.

After finally understanding this matter, I think I changed my mind and would like to have a new poll up.

Tinkerbell and Loev's changes would cancel each other out. Not sure what Calis would change vote to. I am hoping we don't have to throw this out and do two polls over again, since these settings are supposed to be in soon. In fact it may be decided before we finished voting as two teams have already announced their team decisions.

 

[Calis]

I'd change to "No tech brokering"...

 

[SilentConfusion]

I'd change to "No tech brokering"...

Change to No Tech Brokering, but change from what?

 

[Calis]

Oops, sorry. From normal trading.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Oh boy... Considering the people's decision to change votes the actual count is:

-Normal Teching = 7
-No Tech Trading = 6
-No Tech Brokering = 6

Hmmm...

This is close. Somehow I see No Tech Brokering as a kind of in-between ground between Normal and No Tech Trading: some trading, but limited and can't just trade for everything.

 

[remake20]

I think the captain needs to decide the tie breaker between the two no options and then have the winning option face off against normal.

 

[Tinkerbell]

How about we allow people to vote on mutiple items in the first round? In the example of R&B vs Rock, the rock lovers could vote for all the rock flavors. In this case, people could vote for both traiding variations if they care.

Then, the final round, two options and one vote.

 

[Gingi]

How about we allow people to vote on mutiple items in the first round? In the example of R&B vs Rock, the rock lovers could vote for all the rock flavors. In this case, people could vote for both traiding variations if they care.

Then, the final round, two options and one vote.

That makes sense, but like r20 said, we are pretty short on time.

And sorry if this is too late, but I would like to change my vote from No Tech Brokering to Normal Tech Trading.

Which pretty much means we cancelled out Calis's change too. So if my change is accepted, it's

Normal Tech Trading - 8
No Tech Trading - 6
No Tech Brokering - 5

Funny how that turned out.

 

[Sommerswerd]

And sorry if this is too late, but I would like to change my vote from No Tech Brokering to Normal Tech Trading.

Sorry Gingi, it is really not fair to let people vote, (or change votes) after the poll is closed.

Spoiler :

Think of it like dropping your ballot in a ballot box that is locked and taken away, and then calling the election center the next day and telling them "Hey I know the election is over but I want to switch my vote...." That is just unfair and creates hard feelings. damnrunner probably remembers "Potterygate."

Not to mention the fact that since this poll was designed with anonymous voting, we really don't know who voted for what. It just is not fair to make everyone assume that one person voted for something. remember Loev saying that he clicked one box, thinking it was something else? Without, the voter ids turned on, we can't tell who is really switching from what to what. In the future, all polls, except officer elections, should probably have "see voter identities" option checked (unless the Poll Master thinks that the vote needs to be anonymous for some reason).

So we have 7 votes for normal, and a tie between 6 votes for "No trading" and 6 votes for "Brokering"

I think the captain needs to decide the tie breaker between the two no options and then have the winning option face off against normal.

remake20 is correct. Here is a Description of Captain's Office from AMAZON Constitution:

-------- Officer - Captain
We can elect a Captain who will be responsible for moderating team disputes, including poll related disputes (like the legitimacy of a poll). Everyone should respect their fellow AMAZONs, and try not to name-call, insult or be condescending towards teammates especially their teammates ideas/suggestions/questions. Although tempers and passions may flare at times (especially on a team that polls frequently), the Captain will be responsible for keeping the threads on-topic, respectful, productive, and generally for keeping the team running smoothly. The Captain (or some other elected Officer) will have tie-breaking power on closed, tied polls.

So I have the responsibility of breaking the gridlock so that we can move this issue forward. I will break the tie in favor of "NO Tech Trading." So now we will do a run-off poll. Here is my reasoning behind selecting "No Trading" instead of "No Brokering":

Spoiler :

1. When teams are in a tech alliance, it is sometimes the case that two civs may be allied, before they actually meet in-game. In this case, the middle civ acts as a broker, and gifts the tech that they get from the partner on their eastern border to the partner on their western border. This happened in the last game, and enabled Kazakhstan to gift tech to Mad Scientists before they met in game, because they could relay communications through Cavalieros (who had met both teams).

If brokering is turned off, this kind of tech alliance would be more difficult to efficiently develop, because teams that are allied, and wish to share tech will not be able to, simply because their units have not seen each other in game. This will frustrate diplomacy.

Now maybe we WANT diplomacy to be frustrated, maybe we want to stop teams from forming tech alliances. If that is the case, then we need to turn tech trades OFF altogether, instead of turning off brokering.

2. damnrunner mentioned that allowing Normal trading makes tech trading more fun because you have to trust you allies/trading partners not to give your tech to your enemies. This is correct, and it add another layer of excitment and mystery to diplomacy. With No brokering, teams can just trade tech at will, without any worry that the enemy will be given the tech, because no one can trade tech that they have been given, only tech they discover.

In the last game, there was a very painful, where Saturn made a tech deal with Kazakhstan (The Feudalism Treason) where Kazakhstan gave Saturn tech up front, in exchange for a promise to pay another tech later (after researching it). In an Epic display of dishonesty and shrewd play, Lord Parkin and DMOC decided that Saturn should renege on the deal and not give the tech. One of the excuses Saturn gave for reneging was that they were concerned that their tech would be given away to others... This is an example of the twists and turns and surprises that occur with full trading allowed.

However, if we don't want teams to focus of tech trade ing, then we should just elimminate tech trades, altogether, because teams can still abuse tech gifts in other ways (ie. I give you rifling you cant trade it to anyone, but you can still gift Rifles to them).

So that is my tiebreaker vote. And that is what the tiebreaker is for. Since we don't have a Poll Master yet, I will put up the poll myself... I request that no one else put up this poll. We have had enough controversy on this already.

The run-off poll will be between "Normal Trading" and "No trading."

 

[Gingi]

Hey, that's cool. Changing my vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

 

[remake20]

I forgot to do public on about half of the polls sorry.

 

[Gingi]

I was wondering why half were and half weren't.