Gamespy Interview - More Journalistic Cowardice

[iSkratch]

Yet another "interview" in which the reviewer completely avoids asking any direct questions about the massive number of fatal bugs which remain in Civ IV.

My guess: Firaxis is going to force people to fix their crappy code (essentially using unpaid labor) once they release the SDK.

What a complete and utter joke.

 

[TopDog]

Well you keep laughing at their little joke, but most of the rest of us will be happily playing cIV!

 

[Helmling]

Seems like most people are playing just find, man. You know, all games have bugs and not all systems can run all games. Sounds like you've had a rough break, so get a refund.

Game ran just fine for me, pre-patch too.

 

[boarder]

I have to agree with the original poster, I truely believe they knew that the game used way more memory than needed, and knew about the vid card problems (this is from what i have heard from testers that pulled out for various reasons )but didnt have a choice except go against there publishers which probably would have broken a contract if they refused to realise it on time.
Now the pitboss has just been release a month later then promised and the sdk is being released about 2 months longer than when they said it would be.
Kinda slack imo. But expected at the same time.

You also have to realise that interviewers won't ask the tough questions or they won't get another chance to interview them again and other game companys won't grant them interviews if they ask hard questions.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Look around this forum for poll's that have been taken about this topic. You will learn that 90% - 95% of people can run Civ4 just fine, I'm sorry that you're in that 5% - 10% that is having troubles hopefully the next patch will work for you.

 

[opticaljim]

Look around this forum for poll's that have been taken about this topic. You will learn that 90% - 95% of people can run Civ4 just fine, I'm sorry that you're in that 5% - 10% that is having troubles hopefully the next patch will work for you.

Look, I love the Civ series, okay?

But this poster has a point. They released this game before they fixed all the bugs and they knew it. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with a marketing deadline. Also, they counted on their fan base to help them out with the debugging.

C'mon, the game is less then 6 months old and they already had to release 2 patches? These gaming magazines do not have serious journalists, they are in a lovefest with the manufacturers and I wouldn't be shocked to find out that most of them have some type of consulting contract with them. Has anyone heard anything seriously negative from one of these guys? Has the game been structured that perfectly?

And, by the way, 90-95% of the general population can run the game fine (which I seriously question)? Is that acceptable by any industrial standard? This means for every thousand people who bought the game 50-100 of them got screwed. I suppose that's okay so long as you aren't one of them.

I'm playing the game. I'm enjoying the game. I love the game. But sometimes the game freezes. Sometimes the graphics begin to corode. Sometimes the game crashes on my PC. It can be improved.

Hey guys, no hard feelings, okay? I enjoy this forum very much and I respect everyone's opinions and I know most everyone means well. But if your game runs fine then you can't possibly understand the absolute frustration of knowing you have at least the minimum requirements and quite often more than the recomended requirements and the game still blows up.

To make matters worse, these gaming "journalists" have pretty much turned a blind eye to the situation rather then admiting that there has been issues. If they were real and honest about it then it could go a long way to putting pressure on Firaxis and 2K to resolve the issues much quicker.

Guys who come on this forum and complain are doing Firaxis and 2K a great favor. First, they wouldn't be so passionate about their negative experience if they didn't really want to have fun playing with it. After all, we are talking about $50 and many of us have blown that amount on a movie with a cheap date. Second, they are alerting Firaxis and 2K to the fact that there are actual problems. This gives them an opportunity to adress it. If they really wanted to hurt Firxis & co. they wouldn't say anything at all and then boycott any further game releases while telling everyone else they know to stay away from it.

 

[iSkratch]

opticaljim, your reply is appreciated, good to know there are others out there who can see what is really going on here.

Also, in response to the last paragraph of your reply, I actually fully intend to boycott firaxis and take two in the future unless these issues are resolved. I have attemted several times to email and call 2kgames "support", and was completely ignored like everyone else with these problems. It seems Firaxis and Take Two have chosen their course ("bury head in the sand and count $$$), and as a result I have sent a complaint to the Better Business Bureau regarding the quality of their product. I encourage everyone else with these issues to do the same.

Firaxis and Take Two: A perfect example of why so few people take PC games seriously.

 

[iSkratch]

Look around this forum for poll's that have been taken about this topic. You will learn that 90% - 95% of people can run Civ4 just fine, I'm sorry that you're in that 5% - 10% that is having troubles hopefully the next patch will work for you.

Come back and comment once you are educated enough to understand concepts such as "representative sample."

 

[Rad Chris]

When you learn that its the publishers fault (not firaxis) you might have a leg to stand on. Basically they say "Get it out in time for Christmas" and the developers cant do anything about it but fix as much as possible in the short time.

Take for example Valve Software, they have no publisher because they fund themselves. Remember a year or two ago hacked into there network and someone stole the source for Halflife 2? Because they didnt have to bow down to a publisher they delayed the game for a year and got it as bug free and awesome as they could.

Boycotting Firax is ********.

 

[Sadan01]

Boycotting Firax is ********.

Let them. With the few that boycott, Firaxis will make up sales anyway with the release of an expansion (and then combination of Civ4 Vanilla + expansion) and any other product in the future.

C'mon, the game is less then 6 months old and they already had to release 2 patches?

Valve released MANY patches for HL2 from when it was released to the "6-month" period you name. So does Microsoft. So does EA. You reckon there is a pattern here? There has already been a patch for Call of Duty 2 (for Intel users however) and there is supposedly another forthcoming. A couple of patches for Dungeon Siege 2. Patches for Battlefield 2. Geez. Shall I go on?

I'm playing the game. I'm enjoying the game. I love the game. But sometimes the game freezes. Sometimes the graphics begin to corode. Sometimes the game crashes on my PC. It can be improved.

Yes it does need to be improved (although I don't have any problems myself). However, they are going to have to release a PATCH for that. Let me guess what your response would be? Something like: "Well, they should've fixed all these bugs before it was released. There should not have been a problem with the game on release". I would dare say we would still be waiting for Civ4 now and probably until the end of the year, at the very least, for all the "bugs" to be ironed out. That's if it was to be released at all. Look, there is something here you are forgetting - The Publisher, in this case T2, has the control (as they have the money) to name a release date. The developer has to meet that deadline, end of story. We can argue and say that all T2 want is money, and that would probably be right however it is the developer that is the one that cops all the crap for a bad release. Why? When we know it is the other way around?

Can I ask you folks who are complaining this question: Do you whinge this much to Microsoft too for releasing an operating system that you probably paid a lot more money for that has major security vulnerabilities in it? If not, why not? See what their response will be - Something like: This problem will be solved once Vista is released. Upgrade, spend more money and then repeat the entire process. I think the problems with Civ4 pale in comparison slightly - not just for the money factor.

 

[nin9abadga]

the release of an "unfinished" game isn't unusual, virtually every game comes out with some kind of problem that is game breaking for some but fine for others. i've had no problems with civ 4 either pre or post patch.

it's just one of those things. it's almost as inevitable as chelsea winning the premiership.

nin9abadga

 

[GIO888]

Opticaljim is right about the "minimum requirements" thing.

The game was rushed, buggy and not finished. the programers and testers would not have done that, IMHO, unless the breadheads had them over a barrel - they are part of our community and I bet there was some internal warfare before game release!

I was very happy to get Civ4 3 months ago, peeved but stoical to have to upgrade/patch etc, and still suffer CTD and se-r-iou-s slowdowns mid to late game, but it's like the "glass half empty, or half full?" thing.

Half a glass of CIV4 is half full for me!

It already runs better for me 3 months in, so 6 months in, who knows? at least I'm getting my fix right now!

 

[Meffy]

Come back and comment once you are educated enough to understand concepts such as "representative sample."

That's an awfully hostile response to Phoenix's polite, considerate, and well-informed reply. But let that go; there's an important point buried in this statement, a BIG unwarranted assumption which, when its falsity is understood, effectively negates the intent of what you seem to be implying.

I agree that it's important to understand what constitutes a representative sample. You do understand that it's likely that the sample here is going to contain a higher proportion of negative opinions than the general population, don't you? Your statement seems to indicate a belief that polls here will show a more positive slant than if you were to poll all players. (If this is not the way you meant your statement to be interpreted, please feel free to clarify what you meant.) That's the unwarranted assumption I mentioned above. Unwarranted and incorrect.

Disconnect for a moment your irritation that the game isn't satisfying you -- like Phoenix, I too regret that you aren't able to play it as you wish, and hope you're able to get things working. But for the moment pretend you haven't even bought the game, so you can think about the issue dispassionately and examine the mechanism that makes negative sentiment appear stronger than it really is in such situations.

That mechanism is very simple. The primary force at work is especially easy to understand: customers who are angry are far more likely to come to an online forum (or product info number or whatever feedback mechanism is provided) to complain, while those who are satisfied are happily playing their game rather than stopping so they can post yet another "works great here" message. This is true of practically all consumer products, not just computer games. Television programs too, and advertisements. It's a widely-known phenomenon. Other factors are at work too ("Do I really need to start yet another thread just to say 'no trouble here'...?") but that's the most important one.

To sum it up: Polls in an online forum are probably not going to show the opinions of a "representative sample," but a sample that is biased more strongly toward the negative than the general consensus, meaning that a hypothetical "world sample" would give results more positive than the more limited poll.

I'd like to thank you for pointing out this home truth, even if you did grab the wrong end of the stick.

 

[opticaljim]

Again, I respect everyone on this board and their opinions. I hope that Pheonix did not think I was singleing him out personally or attacking him in any way, I just felt that his statement was a prime example of why there seems to be a division on this board when it comes to reacting to negative responses.

Negative responses should not be criticized, there should be some empathy. They should not be called trolls or considered troublemakers. The level of frustration represents passion for the product. Most of these folks do not want to hate on Civ or it's manufacturer. They just want the situation to be recognized.

Here is a customer service fact:

Customers (or purchasers of a particular product) normally do not become intensely dissatisfied and demand refunds because of a particular issue with the product or service. It is usually as a result of the feeling that they are being ignored and their plight minimized that they become irate.

Take2 is doing a particularly poor job of addressing customer issues. It took 6 weeks to respond to my E-mail and it was only to say that they are looking into it. They would just flat out hang up on my telephone calls.

As far as the game needing early patches like many more other games, I just expected more from these developers.

Sometimes I play Civ IV, sometimes Civ III. I'll live with the issues until they fix them or I get another computer. For me, it's not a deal breaker, but I totally understand the frustration.

 

[Meffy]

I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if someone other than Take2 were behind the next iteration of Civ. The devs (to whom: respect!) are catching a lot of heat that IMO ought to have been reserved for them instead.

 

[Steph]

It's true that sometimes game publisher take liberties...
For instance, I bought Napoleon at Waterloo from Talonsoft... The boxe clearly said it was possible to Export the result of Prelude to Waterloo (a game release after Waterloo, and I already owned it)...
But it didn't work... So I go to support, and get the answer: get the patch 1.14... But the patch was available only in English. And has never been released in French... And the two games were in French...

Anyway, there is seldom a bug free programs. My own programs, including professional ones, have lots of bugs inside...
And they are usually discovered by customers, because there are a LOT more customers than testers, so a lot more possible configuration and cause of bugs.

The problem is to know how many bugs were KNOWN at release time.
Did Firaxis release a game they knew was seriously buggy for a relatively important percentage of players?

 

[Steph]

Take2 is doing a particularly poor job of addressing customer issues. It took 6 weeks to respond to my E-mail and it was only to say that they are looking into it. They would just flat out hang up on my telephone calls.

From the support of a software provider (email received a few weeks after I send a request info).

"Regarding the anomaly number 952 you submitted at date X, we are pleased to inform you that the anomaly number was in fact 953"
I never received any more info about this anomaly

 

[Matte979]

Simply its should have been tested more, they should have had a public BETA that you still had to pay to be in and sign a letter of intent. This whole thing could have been done so much better.

Anyway. We all have to realize that its a very complex game and a lot of things can go wrong in the PC World of thousand types of hardware. They should change the delivery method to online and automatic patches and public betas. Then most of the money can go to the right people the
developers.

This is the way the PC games will be able to compete with console games. All publisher on consoles pay a hefty fee to the console maker this is not necessary on PC. We can have new content coming with updates. The PC is just superior to the console when dealing with flexibility. Thats where PCs games need to go.

Thats my rant..

Sorry you are having trouble, when I have trouble with games I just report it to support and play another game until there is a patch. Saves you a lot of frustration.

 

[Blazer6]

I only have problems because of my old computer.

On a side note:
Do people who register on December always have to make these "this game has so many bugs" threads?

 

[potatokiosk]

No. I've never made one, never will. There's enough of these threads as it is. This place needs the recycling center improvement.