[GS] Gathering Storm Leader Ability Elimination Thread

[monstercat]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [21]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [7] (10 - 3) The worst domination ability left. Chandra, Shaka, Monty and Tomyris are all better.
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [4]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [24]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [35] (34 + 1) Possibly the best domination focused ability left. Basically a flat +10 CS bonus to all units in later eras.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [18]

 

[enKage]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [21]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8] 7+1 Better IMO than Chandy and somehow the difference is huge and quite opposite (according the rule independent abilities are better than abilities that require sth). With Chandy you need to denounce 5 turns before (I often forget) and is limited to few civs you have 2 cities within 10 tiles I believe and also comes slightly later, so no use for ancient rush. Cyrus can declare anywhen and on anyone. You race with someone with your settler for city spot? Just declare on anybody, even on the opposite side of world. You see someone ready to settle, but is too far away to catch him? Just declare on anyone and grab that settler for you. Your bonus movemant has finished, but still need +2 movement? Just declare on anyone even far away. Added movement works better with persia than with India: better roads. And +5 loyality is huge in the early stage, when cities are not big yet.
And it is not true it doesn't work if someone declares on you first. This case... yes, just declare on someone distant.
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [4]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21] 24-3 Very limited to only 1 type victory (and please don't tell me warmonger abilities are limited only to domination, because yyou need some conquest for EVERY type of victory, unless played emperor or below). Makes Sweden competitive in tourism victory, but still not enough to make Sweden stronger in tourism than Mapuche, China, France, Kongo, Russia, Canada, Maori or even Persia or America. And basically worthless with Riussia or Kngo as opponents.
Oh, and believe me or not, you REALLY CAN theme museums with ANY civ!! Even Zulu!!! It only needs some more clicks to trade piece of art with AI or moving around artists before using a charge. So how muc tourism/culture you really gain from it? Strange it survived to top half.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [35]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [18]

 

[bbbt]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18] 21-3. I'd say this is the worst left, at least for single player where I rarely have a war long enough to have to worry about war weariness (I'm sure it's more potent in multiplayer). It remains mostly on the strength of the Hetaroi, which is not enough to carry it above the all troop movement/strength bonuses remaining.
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [4]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [35]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [19] 18 + 1 This is strong because it kicks in turn 1, getting you to those crucial first civics - and first governments - faster.

 

[lotrmith]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8] .
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [5] = 4 + 1 A better deterrent to wars than even Canada's literal block on surprise wars. Play some multiplayer and find that Aus gets to dictate when it goes to war and never the other way around. Or play against AI and gift a 1 pop city on the fringe of your opposite border, and play flip-Lib every 10 turns for permanent double production.
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32] = 35 - 3 Time to knock this boring, one-note warmonger ability down a peg. For how much people hate warmongering I'm surprised this is still here much less winning. There are far more useful warmonger abilities gone or rated lower. It forces you to spam conquer and never stop, and it doesn't encourage you or help you to do anything else. By the time its power approaches or surpassed other, better abilities, you're so wide that you've already won, and I just don't respect win-more abilities.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [19]

 

[Leucarum]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16] (19-3) There are better bonuses to combat strength on the board and spies aren't usually the deciding factor in many games...
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8] .
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [5]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28] (27+1) An empire wide +% which is very easy to achieve.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [19]

 

[Kwami]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [2] (5 - 3) I don't really like any of the "get X for 10 turns after Y" abilities, but of those remaining, this one gives you the least control.
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20] (19 + 1) Back to 20! The free Culture from turn 1 is hard to beat. Earlier governors and Political Philosophy for governments? Yes, please.

 

[_Calyx]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [3] (2+1) If playing at higher difficulty levels, it is very easy to find city states to liberate - you may not have total control over when people declare on you, but even in that case it acts as a great emergency valve.
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18] (21-3) Corps and armies don't seem that important? Not a fan of pure warmongering abilities, the best way to have an invincible war machine is with a strong economy.
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[BarbarianHunter]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [31]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
19. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [ELIMINATED] --- Used to like it with 20 turns and modern armor. Now, not so much so.
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29] (28+1) --- Certainly deserves a thumbs up. More culture = more envoys = more culture = more envoys = more culture = more science (Int'l Space Station)...
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[Architect]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [28] (31 - 3) Second best ability in the game? I don't think so.
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30] (29+1) Collective Activism from the beginning of the game is completely overpowered.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[Disgustipated]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13] = 16 - 3 Don't get me wrong, it's much better since they boosted intel bonuses, but I still am hard pressed to really take advantage of this. When you really want those huge bonuses is the early game, and you aren't likely to have high diplomatic visibility with AI's at that stage. +3 will probably be all you have. Spies are cool, but often won't win you games (though could possibly prevent you from losing it, but I often find other AI civs destroy spaceports faster than me).
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [28]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [22] = 21 + 1 Not ready to see this go. Yes she doesn't have a bonus to getting those great works, but you do know you can buy them off the AI, right? The AI is more than willing to sell many of theirs. Now if you are playing multiplayer this may not be so hot, but in SP it's just fine. I have to give her one more vote, not better than some of these, but I would say it's better than Catherine and Cyrus at least.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[WillowBrook]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [28]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [21]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19] 22-3 a solid ability, but I'd put it on par with Catherine and say it should be one of the next to go.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33] 32+1 so strong, especially on bigger maps with more luxuries
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[Weraptor]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [28]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18] (21-3) It's getting quite hard to pick something. I like to play Japan scientifically since R&F, so the CS bonus and production towards the 3 districts has rather supportive function for me.
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26] (25+1) Free builder charge is weaker than in vanilla, but the builder wonder rushing is where it's at.
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [18]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[BenitoChavez]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25] = 28 - 3. I think the best comparison to this is Macedon's eureka/inspiration on city capture with certain districts. And that ability out performs Harald's in my experience.
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19] = 18 + 1. This is the reason why the Zulu are so formidable. They are a pretty vanilla civ until they get their early super-powered corps and armies.The Zulu corp has a +15 advantage over regular units. +15!!! That is like having a military comprised of swordsman and crossbows when your opponent has warriors and archers. And they get corps 3 eras (!!!) ahead of anyone else. This is just so incredibly strong.
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[bengalryan9]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [27]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30] (33-30) This is good, but it's also boring. Everything about the Aztecs just screams "make my game a difficulty level easier", and while they may be effective it's not like the game is all that difficult to begin with. Yay, now the AI will have an even harder time slowing me down! Zzzzzzzzz... let's bring this back to the pack a bit.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27] (26+1) Lasts the whole game, plus gives you a chance to grab those impactful early wonders that would normally be a coin flip to get. But it doesn't just hand them to you, either, as you do still have to put some work in to pull them off.
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[Loderingo]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [10] - It is a powerful ability but has less direct impact to winning the game than some of the others.
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [19]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [28] - 27+1 - A very strong ability and can help you gobble up a neighbour.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [20]

 

[The Highwayman]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [10]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [16] [19-3] Better than Ghandi's trash ability, as it gives some offensive life to the plodding Varu, but it's time for things to start falling in place for the more situational abilities.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [28]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [21] [20+1] You know how abilities are rightfully down-voted because they come too late and the game is already won? This is the opposite. Culture is arguably the most important yield early game. Even if I have the gold to eventually rush a monument in my first three cities you're not getting the insta culture in your cap...and Rome can spend that gold elsewhere. Trajan's Column has held its own as a top tier ability since day 1.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron 7[10-3]talk about boring and it comes late
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [16]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [19]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [28]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [22] [21+1] +2 culture to start the game is huge on marathon

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [7]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [16]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [8]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [20] (19+1) There's a reason why some of the fastest culture victories are done with Kristina. Also, whatever great works you don't earn, trade your horde of diplomatic favor you get as Sweden to other civs to buy their works (which is less tourism for them and more for you!)
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [25] (28-3) This can be absolutely bonkers, but it's not as reliable as other leader abilities. City-states can be conquered by other civs first, they can be all on the other side of the map, you can lose your levying by a rival civ stealing suzerainty from you, etc.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [22]

 

[Datgingah]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [18]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [7]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [16]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [9] (8+1) I don't think its time has quite come yet, as immediately having this available to you is super powerful and easy to use immediately, no need for setup.
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [20]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [25]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [27] (30-3) Good but I don't think it is so much better then the rest here to have 30 points, so I'm returning it to the mean.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [22]

 

[Icicle]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [15] (18-3) The Hetairoi is a great unit, but one good unit isn't enough at this point. The rest of this is meh.
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [7]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [16]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [9]
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
16. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [18]
20. Kristina - Minerva of the North [20]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [25]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [28] (27+1) Yeah this is stupid good.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [27]
38. Shaka - Amabutho [19]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [22]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [22]