Gedemon's Civilization, development thread

[Gedemon]

So no future plans to make the mod compatible with expansion unless for purely modding benefits ?

Yes, or said differently, if there are modding benefits that are specific to R&F, then I'll have to make the mod fully compatible with the expansion if I want to access them.

 

[heinous_hat]

I haven't watched any videos demonstrating the new mechanics, so it's hard to judge the substance. From reading the discussions though, I'm pretty sure I don't like their approach to governors... more "card game" symmetry between players; entirely positive traits; hideous artwork. Ugh.

However, the more game hooks with dedicated UI, the better for modding, I think. Along with the underwhelming governor design, we have a framework that could possibly hold more interesting things... e.g. idiosyncratic traits for governors; nice big panel for custom art; more ways to add modifiers at the city level. The biggest problem here might be implementing per player or per culture governor choices, since they seem to have made that deliberately broad. We'll see...

I'll probably buy the expansion with some Amazon promotional credit I've accumulated. Generally, the more disagreeable I find something, the greater the impulse to actively mod, so I'll share my findings here when it comes along.

 

[Gedemon]

Update on gitHub

- remove R&F ruleset when the mod is activated (as it's incompatible)
- remove Corps and Armies
- reduce warmongers penalties
- remove all wars type (including "joint wars") except "surprise wars" as it's the only one that can directly affect third-parties diplomatic relations (positive or negative modifiers)
- remove near border warning when having open border agreement
- remove "close to victory" modifiers
- raise values of some diplomatic modifiers to give more weight to DoF, alliances, denunciation for third party civilizations (ie if civA don't like civB, it will like you more if you denounce or DoW civB)
- bug fix: an error could occurs during cities turns because of an incorrect call to a debug function
- bug fix: prevent an error when a captured city object is nil after capture (razed ?)

 

[Gedemon]

Another update on gitHub, still testing a few things with what's open to modding in relation to Diplomacy...

- move Alliance to Feudalism civic
- an Alliance now means that you declare wars both defensively and offensively with the other member of the Alliance.
- move Defensive Pact to Early Empire civic
- research agreement buffed, but requires an Alliance
- Defensive Pact available when Friendly
- bug fix : Luxuries should be available to trade for Neutral relation

 

[Gedemon]

Small update on gitHub a few hours ago, a first pass at balancing costs:

- make separate entries for equipment and materiel cost (were under strategic resources, now have a lower cost)
- lower the speed at which prices are increasing when demand > supply
- tweak some diplomatic values

 

[Gedemon]

Another small update

- add luxuries consumption by upper class population, affect max/min percentage of upper class population for social stratification
- lower values for luxury resources stock
- tweak values for war horses / chariots production and stock
- tweak Civics tree

 

[Gedemon]

bug fix on gitHub

- bug fix : allied should now declare war as intended
- raise Chainmail and Plate Armors production values
- tweak max stock and cost of Chainmail, Plate Armors, Lances, Steel Pikes, Steel Swords

 

[Gedemon]

Another small update, to fix an error on a file I've uploaded a few hours ago

- bug fix : prevent an error during city turn
- add filters to the debug output

 

[Gedemon]

Small update this afternoon, but bugged, working on the fix

add a "smaller units" policy : "Your military is organized on smaller entities requiring 20% less personnel and supplies. Units Combat Strength is reduced but they heal faster."

 

[Gedemon]

Should be fixed

- bug fix for the new "smaller units" policy

 

[Gedemon]

And a new update, maybe I'll do a full game with it this WE...

- try to update the current Tech Tree (by moving things around, just one additional Tech) to something that doesn't stop me from playing
- raise techs/civics costs
- reactivate the Minas Geraes units as a generic Dreadnought

Spoiler Updated Tech Tree :

 

[dunkleosteus]

And a new update, maybe I'll do a full game with it this WE...

- try to update the current Tech Tree (by moving things around, just one additional Tech) to something that doesn't stop me from playing
- raise techs/civics costs
- reactivate the Minas Geraes units as a generic Dreadnought

Spoiler Updated Tech Tree :

View attachment 489167

I really like this. Can I make a few suggestions about tech requirements? (No idea if these would be balanced, only suggesting from the position of sensibility) I think I've voiced concerns about the early techs before, so I don't need to repeat myself. Late game though,
I think Computers should require Plastics, and Plastics should require Chemistry

I think satellites and telecommunications should be related (one of them should require the other, but it depends on your interpretation of that. If telecommunications just means long-range, high-fidelity communication, then satellites should require telecommunication. If telecommunication means satellite broadcasting, then telecommunication should require satellites)

Hang on. is the harbor unlocked with Mass Production?

 

[washy]

This look amazing, i was playing with the combat and supply system and its working perfect. Great job!

 

[Gedemon]

I really like this. Can I make a few suggestions about tech requirements? (No idea if these would be balanced, only suggesting from the position of sensibility) I think I've voiced concerns about the early techs before, so I don't need to repeat myself. Late game though,
I think Computers should require Plastics, and Plastics should require Chemistry

I think satellites and telecommunications should be related (one of them should require the other, but it depends on your interpretation of that. If telecommunications just means long-range, high-fidelity communication, then satellites should require telecommunication. If telecommunication means satellite broadcasting, then telecommunication should require satellites)

Hang on. is the harbor unlocked with Mass Production?

I'll see what I can do without messing too much the intersections.

If I can, I'll rework the UI files for the tech tree to completely remove the lines and branching and just highlight the prerequisite technologies, that way we'll be able to only care about the logic, not the representation.

about harbors, every costal cities are "harbor cities", the "district" represent larger harbor. Is Mass production too soon or too late for that ?

and I'm still unsure about water tiles ownership, the harbor district remove from the game the importance of coastal cities.

 

[Gedemon]

Update on gitHub, mostly tweaks after the revision of the Tech tree:

- bug fix: only the Artillator (unlocked at Archery) can produce Crossbows and Longbows, previously the Carpenter was able to build them with Construction/Machinery, even without Archery
- balance: unlock "Lances" (needed by medieval horsemen and knight) at Military Tactics (was Stirrup)
- balance: unlock Gambeson at Military Tactics (was Machinery)
- balance: unlock Chainmail Armor (required by Longswordsman and Knigth) at Machinery (was Engineering)
- balance: unlock Plate Armor (required by Longswordsman and Knigth) at Apprenticeship (was Machinery)
- balance: unlock Fort at Military Tactics (was Construction)
- Military Tactics requires Construction
- add 2 new policies: upper and middle classes taxes, unlocked at State Workforce civic, that give gold income relative to each city social stratification
- lower materiel requirement for cities reparations
- lower luxuries requirement for Upper Class needs
- add a raw listing of needs effects to the population tooltip on the city banners (temporary, while waiting for a new tab in the city panel)

 

[washy]

One question, what happened to the slaves in the game? we store them in the cities? what about creating some slaves related buildings?

Example:
Fighting Pit: each turn transform 5 slaves into 1 amenity
Slave Market: transform 5 slaves into 5 gold
Forced working mine: transform 5 salves into 3 production 2 stone 2 cooper
Colosseum: transform 10 slaves 10 weapons into 3 amenities 3 gold and 3 cultures

Or something like that

 

[Gedemon]

That's kind of planned, but postponed until the new population mechanism is implemented.

 

[heinous_hat]

and I'm still unsure about water tiles ownership, the harbor district remove from the game the importance of coastal cities

I was in favor of the harbor. If I recall, my thinking was that it could allow naval access to both sides of a land mass, where you don't have an isthmus. In practice though, that's a bit fiddly... you need to leave a ship occupying the harbor in order to produce one in the city, and remove it if you want one from the harbor. Aside from that, the only benefit is visual. I can see your point about the value of coastal cities, and it does really screw up the nice, clean cultural borders that you have otherwise.

I guess I wouldn't miss it that much. But what to do about coastal wonders?

 

[Gedemon]

Stack them back in cities ? Not sure if we can redefine the artdefs for that kind of thing.

Small update on gitHub

- bug fix: try to not sent resources to a city without the diplomatic relation (allied/DoF/neutral/denounced) for that type of resource.

 

[Knasp]

I was in favor of the harbor. If I recall, my thinking was that it could allow naval access to both sides of a land mass, where you don't have an isthmus. In practice though, that's a bit fiddly... you need to leave a ship occupying the harbor in order to produce one in the city, and remove it if you want one from the harbor. Aside from that, the only benefit is visual. I can see your point about the value of coastal cities, and it does really screw up the nice, clean cultural borders that you have otherwise.

I guess I wouldn't miss it that much. But what to do about coastal wonders?

Couldn't you add the ability to move ship units from the city-center to the harbour? Just like a trader unit or great person can be transfered between cities?

Or set an requirement, that the harbour district could be built only in non-coastal cities?

Suggestion:
1. Add a new city project (or a city-center building) called: "Build Harbour".
2. Requirements would be: a) "non-coastal city" and b) "ownership of a land tile adjacent to coast/ocean" and c) coast/water tiles in question doesn't already have a harbour/wonder"
3. Upon completion, it will initiate a script that places a harbour district on the tile closest to the city center AND give the player ownership of that tile. (Optional: also spawn a road between harbour and city center).
4. Either the project will take several turns to complete and thus the script will place a fully functioning district OR
5. The project would take just 1 turn, and the placed district would then become available for construction (just like districts in vanilla).
6. Then trace coastal/ocean trade routes / supply lines to and from harbour district.
7. Allow the same naval buildings (as in coastal cities), to be built in the harbour district.
8. Allow naval recruitment in the harbour district.
9. Remove any district bonuses that a coastal city wouldn't get (like adjacency to sea resources?).

Multiple suitable coastal/ocean tiles?
If several tiles are tied for being closest to you city center, then choose in the following order:

1. tile adjacent to a river
2. tile adjacent to the most water resources
4. tile closest to any coastal city
5. tile closest to any other harbour
6. just pick one at random

Or just make the harbour a land-based district?
It would be placed and built like a regular district, only requiring a tile adjacent to coast/ocean. Then you wouldn't need the script above, and coastal tiles would remain free from ownership. Though you'd have to change the artdef, maybe make it look like a commerical district? And possibly add the graphics of a harbour district (piers) on one adjacent coastal tile. The piers wouldn't have any effect on the tile, just make it look prettier.

Naval wonders?
Let the naval wonder be built as a regular building/city project, in the coastal city/harbour district in question. Upon completion, just add the graphics of the wonder on an adjacent water tile (if possible).