GEM Stage 2: Research

[Thalassicus]

Click to see the release notes.

I'm focusing on bugfixes and the stages of GEM's release right now, to get it out faster, and keep from burning out from an overload of work. I do read the other conversations on the forum, but rarely join the discussions because of this focus on Gem's release. I get easily distracted by other exciting things.

 

[Scramble]

Does this mean that GEM stage 1 is out on the steam mods workshop?

 

[Thalassicus]

Not yet, I want to get the basics in place before moving past beta testing. Betas are very buggy, and I want to give casual Civ players a good first impression of the mod when it's released to the workshop.

Click here to get stage 1 of the beta from civfanatics. I expect to release stage 2 later today or tomorrow.

 

[mitsho]

I guess, if all the stages were on the workshop you'd get lots of lots of bugreports and people asking question why this GEM doesn't include that from VEM. If it's only on the website, people don't get dissapointed

So, Research Agreements are not in this stage, but in the Diplomacy stage?

 

[Thalassicus]

Right, the research component focuses on the tech tree, while diplomacy focuses on trades & citystates.

 

[Tery Buster]

Are you balancing tech costs as well?
Last game I played I've reached future era on early's 1950 playing with Egypt.
Perhaps removing some free-tech opportunities would solve that.

 

[Thalassicus]

Yes, this component will alter tech costs, but I'm leaving it out for now because tech pace depends on later changes to science in the Cities stage. Once that's added we can balance the rates of research, policies, and building stuff.

 

[Tery Buster]

Changing improvements and buildings from a tech to another involves lua or xml?

If it's as simple as changing a sting from TECH_SOMETHING to TECH_OTHERTHING I could help doing some of the modifications


Dunno if you noticed, what I lack in experience I have in will (or annoying)

 

[Thalassicus]

Yes it's simple xml edits:

<Update>
	<Where BuildingClass="BUILDINGCLASS_CIRCUS" />
	<Set PrereqTech="TECH_HORSEBACK_RIDING" />
</Update>

The research stage is ready to go. I'm just testing some bugs with lua code in the previous terrain stage. The lua files are the source of 99% of the problems we experience, since code is more complicated than data.

 

[Stalker0]

One question I want to poll people on: How do they feel the tech pace is in GK?

In know in VEM, Thal added tech pacing to slow down teching overall (which I agreed with). Do we need to do the same in GK, or is the tech pace better now?

 

[rhammer640]

I second the question, i think from what ive read it does still need to be slowed down.

If this is the case maybe Thal could reduce it quick in this wave of changes and it could always be further adjusted as we move on through the stages of development (not sure the extents of code changes required to make this happen but if its a quick thing it would be nice to have as a stop gap for now) I know personally it was one of my favorite changes in VEM.

 

[mystikx21]

Tech pace was slower, but was not VEM pace, which I preferred. I don't think it needs to be hard-fast set in this release but tweaking it as others come online is fine.

Civs that fell behind in GK really fell behind. The "ketchup" effects should compensate to make it a little faster, which is fine.

I'd say the main thing I noticed wasn't the tech speed but that the difficulty level was a level below where I was accustomed to playing with.

 

[Lord Byte]

I actually tend to fall behind in the final epoch (once past Industrial). Up to Gunpowder is a bit too fast, but after that it slows down tremendously, making me barely able to have the historical units at the correct time.

The Catchup was something I had in mind myself, glad you introduced it, as it is historically accurate.

 

[headcase]

Civs that fell behind in GK really fell behind. The "ketchup" effects should compensate to make it a little faster, which is fine.

This and\or make spies belonging to losing civs more effective, and consider giving the spies to all civs when any civ reaches the next era.

 

[mystikx21]

Notes on the released version so far that aren't in the notes.
1) Fixed crab. I don't see salt or citrus or copper or truffles changes (other than -1 to copper/truffles).
2) Changed camps to Animal Husbandry.
3) Changed Forts to 20HP from 10HP
4) I documented the changes to prerequisites (and terrain) here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AeudKJcGF01VGD_OcY9PjRw6OxB0QYcRnsKR4fL5Cnk/edit

 

[wobuffet]

Having played two complete games of G&K now (although on King and Emperor), I really miss having real competition in Science a la VEM. I just became a Science runaway in both games without even really trying (e.g., didn't build the Great Library), then just crushed everybody with superior units and pretty much all the World Wonders I wanted to boot.

What I'm saying is, I really miss the AI Science handicaps.

 

[V. Soma]

Hi!

Thoughts on tech catch-up:

Those civs who don't have knowledge of other civs should not catch up

and

catch up should be enhanced by:

- roads to other civ
- open border with other civ (and thus OB should be more dear to AI)
- diplo relation to other civ

can (and/or should be) these be worked into the game?

 

[wobuffet]

Those civs who don't have knowledge of other civs should not catch up

This is already in place!

 

[V. Soma]

This is already in place!

great

 

[Seek]

I don't know if I'm alone here, but the early game in G&K feels too short to me. I'd really like it if the Medieval era was returned to three columns, anyone agree?