General A New Dawn discussion

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

There's something that has always bothered me, that is that resources that with time have become common all over the world are always restricted to some civs in the game. I know there's a Great Farmer mod somewhere, that has the ability to "plant" resources, but wouldn't it be easier for us for example to make our captured animal units trainable (with lots of restrictions, to avoid abusing them)? We could make a building available somewhere in renaissance that allows to train Vokarya's captured animal units. To avoid any abuse, we could make that unit very expensive or I could find a way to make it a single unit only trainable once. Or at least a single national unit. We could make something similar for plants too.
Opinions?

 

[GreedyManul]

There's something that has always bothered me, that is that resources that with time have become common all over the world are always restricted to some civs in the game. I know there's a Great Farmer mod somewhere, that has the ability to "plant" resources, but wouldn't it be easier for us for example to make our captured animal units trainable (with lots of restrictions, to avoid abusing them)? We could make a building available somewhere in renaissance that allows to train Vokarya's captured animal units. To avoid any abuse, we could make that unit very expensive or I could find a way to make it a single unit only trainable once. Or at least a single national unit. We could make something similar for plants too.
Opinions?

I did it in my own copy of RoM: AnD! My restrictions were basically have them eat food too like worker and settler production, have them require 300 production to complete, and there can be only 1 unit at a time via national unit limits. Also, require the resource they spread in the first place. The plant resources mission was also made to require agriculture instead of animal husbandry.

In my copy, on top of making the captured units buildable, I also made cultivator units for the following, organized by unlocking tech (spoiler'd because clutter):

Spoiler :

Agriculture:

• Wheat
• Potato
• Corn
• Rice

Fermentation:

• Apple
• Olives
• Lemons
• Wine

I was also thinking of making the following resources available at their respective techs:

Hunting:

• Fur
• Ivory (simply move captured elephant here)
• Deer (simply move captured stag here)

Trade:

• Silk

Calendar:

• Incense
• Spices
• Tea
• Hemp
• Tobacco
• Banana
• Coffee
• Cotton
• Dye
• Sugar

Chemistry:

• Rubber

Aquaculture (same as the ones above, it just comes late game to signify the difficulty of "farming" fish like you'd do on land):

• Clam
• Crab
• Fish
• Pearls
• Shrimp
• Whale

Modern Seismology (this one, instead of requiring a resource to be built for guaranteed planting, will provide a random chance of one of those to appear, despite their existence in your empire via a geologist unit; all are land resources except methane ice and oil, with the former being sea exclusive):

• Coal
• Iron
• Marble
• Stone
• Bauxite
• Gold
• Gems
• Silver
• Obsidian
• Copper
• Oil
• Methane Ice
• Geothermal Energy
• Uranium
• Lead
• Salt
• Fossils

tl;dr, make all resources able to be cultivated at the correct tech period, with mineral resources having their own cultivation style very late at the game and sea resources just requiring a late game.

FYI, the only issue is AI teachability, but I don't think it won't be too difficult, as the foundations are already in place.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I really don't see the need for this,

You have random generation through farms, Jungle camps and mines.

The only resources you don't randomly generate are livestock (pigs, horses,cows etc)

anything else, apart from oil + Methane ice I assume, aren't randomly generated.

The ability to 'generate' the resource, through other alternative means, leaves it open to massive abuse,

I'd personally like to leave it as random generation, with only capture livestock, very early in the game only, where you have to wait until animal husbandry to settle then down.

 

[Alpaya]

I'd personally like to leave it as random generation, with only capture livestock, very early in the game only, where you have to wait until animal husbandry to settle then down.

Interesting mechanism used in Civ 5. It has a special unit that can move livestock resources and relocate them in needed position. But it's too easy for human player, and I'm not sure that AI will use this option, so it will be like cheating.

 

[<Nexus>]

I really don't see the need for this,

You have random generation through farms, Jungle camps and mines.

The only resources you don't randomly generate are livestock (pigs, horses,cows etc)

anything else, apart from oil + Methane ice I assume, aren't randomly generated.

The ability to 'generate' the resource, through other alternative means, leaves it open to massive abuse,

I'd personally like to leave it as random generation, with only capture livestock, very early in the game only, where you have to wait until animal husbandry to settle then down.

+1

I was thinking of giving great scientist those abilities. That would guarantee not to be abused.

 

[Noyyau]

Do Medic promotions heal also units of other civs or only mine?

Example: Civ A is at war with Civ B. Civ B is sieging a city of Civ A.
I am at peace with both, and I park a unit with Medic promotions in Civ A's besieged city.
Do Civ A's units gain the healing boost from my Medic? Do Civ B's (on the adiacent tile outside the city)?

 

[Vokarya]

Do Medic promotions heal also units of other civs or only mine?

Example: Civ A is at war with Civ B. Civ B is sieging a city of Civ A.
I am at peace with both, and I park a unit with Medic promotions in Civ A's besieged city.
Do Civ A's units gain the healing boost from my Medic? Do Civ B's (on the adiacent tile outside the city)?

I did some testing and it looks like only your units benefit from your Medic promotions. I set up two rival civs on one-tile islands with a city and a wounded Explorer (added an NLOS Cannon, attacked with it, then deleted the unit and the tile it was on). Then I used WB to declare peace with one and put a Scout with Medic I in his city. The two units healed at the same rate.

 

[Noyyau]

Good to know, thanks!

 

[<Nexus>]

An other request, about the Scoreboard this time.

Civ names / Leader names cover a lot the screen and are often also hard to read.

VIP mod uses leader and civ icons instead text. Could we incorporate that as an option?

Spoiler :

 

[black213]

I think something should be done about religion, the later ones in particular. They don't kick off the ground, because everyone is content with their current, early founded one.
All games I've played, it's always Kemetism, Judaism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Hellenism and Naghualism that dominate the world, unless the human actively spreads and converts AIs with one of the later religions.
Never have I seen Asatru, Shinto, Christianity and Islam prosper in the hands of an AI.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I think something should be done about religion, the later ones in particular. They don't kick off the ground, because everyone is content with their current, early founded one.
All games I've played, it's always Kemetism, Judaism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Hellenism and Naghualism that dominate the world, unless the human actively spreads and converts AIs with one of the later religions.
Never have I seen Asatru, Shinto, Christianity and Islam prosper in the hands of an AI.

Working on it and something should have changed in some very recent revision too.

 

[GreedyManul]

While I was snooping on the files I listed above (especially CIV4GameSpeedInfo), I found out the percentages were all wonky and somewhat on the counter-intuitive side, as you'd expect Normal to have 100 as a percent across the board, but things are otherwise. What gives? It's obviously for rebalance issues, but why that route?

Also, CIV4WorldInfo could use a little recalibrating. Giant/Gigantic have disproportionately high research costs compared to Huge.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

While I was snooping on the files I listed above (especially CIV4GameSpeedInfo), I found out the percentages were all wonky and somewhat on the counter-intuitive side, as you'd expect Normal to have 100 as a percent across the board, but things are otherwise. What gives? It's obviously for rebalance issues, but why that route?

Also, CIV4WorldInfo could use a little recalibrating. Giant/Gigantic have disproportionately high research costs compared to Huge.

Believe me, it's mostly ok. I've done a lot of testing. I've started testing with blitz because it's faster for testing purposes with autoplay. I actually still need to test with snail and eternity speed because of course it takes longer but more or less those values should be OK.

 

[<Nexus>]

I was thinking about the fact that most players abandon the game at about the middle. Sometimes it's the result of not well chosen difficulty but also because the game doesn't have much new to offer.

How about allowing the players to change their leaders at advancing to a new era from Renaissance onward? Would give an interesting twist to change an aggressive/nomadic leader to philosopher/humanist
Same goes for allowing it for the AI. Imagine that you are friends with Gandhi and both of you are running Hinduism as state religion. Suddenly he is replaced with Asoka, who in turn quickly changes for Buddhism and tension arises.
IIRC all civs have at least 2 leaders, even in MCP.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I was thinking about the fact that most players abandon the game at about the middle. Sometimes it's the result of not well chosen difficulty but also because the game doesn't have much new to offer.

How about allowing the players to change their leaders at advancing to a new era from Renaissance onward? Would give an interesting twist to change an aggressive/nomadic leader to philosopher/humanist
Same goes for allowing it for the AI. Imagine that you are friends with Gandhi and both of you are running Hinduism as state religion. Suddenly he is replaced with Asoka, who in turn quickly changes for Buddhism and tension arises.
IIRC all civs have at least 2 leaders, even in MCP.

I had quite a discussion years ago with Afforess on the subject:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=363206
[emoji13]
I'll think about it.

 

[<Nexus>]

I had quite a discussion years ago with Afforess on the subject:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=363206
[emoji13]
I'll think about it.

THX

Looking into the discussion:

The reason this idea isn't feasible, at least not for Civ4, is because Leader's use a lot of RAM up. (As seen by the number of users who can not handle the megapack). There simply aren't enough leaders in RoM for this to be feasible, especially with more than 20 civs in play. Adding enough leaders would make MAF common for everyone. That's the real reason this isn't going to happen.

It may be true, I dunno...
What I know is, that starting the game with MCP and CustomLeaderheads modules, and later loading a savegame without those modules the game instead of crashing replaces both the missing leaders and civs. That change certainly don't use extra memory, so I believe the RAM issue should be solvable with some coder magic.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

THX

Looking into the discussion:

It may be true, I dunno...
What I know is, that starting the game with MCP and CustomLeaderheads modules, and later loading a savegame without those modules the game instead of crashing replaces both the missing leaders and civs. That change certainly don't use extra memory, so I believe the RAM issue should be solvable with some coder magic.

Well, I can play good enough with MCP on my 8 years old PC, so I think this shouldn't be an issue. Required coding on the other hand it's a different issue. I'll see if/what I can do when I get back to my PC.

 

[<Nexus>]

Well, I can play good enough with MCP on my 8 years old PC, so I think this shouldn't be an issue. Required coding on the other hand it's a different issue. I'll see if/what I can do when I get back to my PC.

It's so good that you are open for suggestions

By the way: What do you think of aggri1's Civ 6: Eureka moments proposal?
I was thinking of something like that for a long time and I think it could work like this:
Specifying in the technologies.xml that X number of Y something is generating Z towards that specific tech; where Y could be unit, building or improvement.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It's so good that you are open for suggestions

By the way: What do you think of aggri1's Civ 6: Eureka moments proposal?
I was thinking of something like that for a long time and I think it could work like this:
Specifying in the technologies.xml that X number of Y something is generating Z towards that specific tech; where Y could be unit, building or improvement.

I like the idea but I think it's too complicated to teach AI. AI is already having a hard time in choosing the right unit/building/wonder. Either we teach AI how to choose properly to boost specific techs (too hard to code), or leave that part alone, but it would be like cheating because AI would eventually get better towards specific techs but randomly, while human players can control that process.

 

[<Nexus>]

I like the idea but I think it's too complicated to teach AI. AI is already having a hard time in choosing the right unit/building/wonder. Either we teach AI how to choose properly to boost specific techs (too hard to code), or leave that part alone, but it would be like cheating because AI would eventually get better towards specific techs but randomly, while human players can control that process.

You're probably right... ehh... sure you are.

Just an other idea...
Sorry, I seem to have opened my Pandora's box of ideas

Connections spreading diseases
How about some way that the number of connections affect city's ?
I think of something similar as the connections tags on buildings. For example Caravanserai:

			<iForeignConnectedCommerce>1</iForeignConnectedCommerce>
			<iCitiesRequiredPerForeignConnectedCity>3</iCitiesRequiredPerForeignConnectedCity>
			<iMaxForeignConnectedCommerce>15</iMaxForeignConnectedCommerce>
			<iForeignConnectedHealth>-1</iForeignConnectedHealth>
			<iCitiesRequiredPerForeignConnectedCity>3</iCitiesRequiredPerForeignConnectedCity>
			<iMaxForeignConnectedHealth>3</iMaxForeignConnectedHealth>

Currently there is no upside of the No foreign connections.