General Advice?

[ChaosArbiter]

Hello all:
I'm asking, basically, how well you think my game is going and where/how it should proceed. Some basic info, I guess ... this is the first Regent game I've played that hasn't crash-and-burned within 30 game turns, so I'm rather loathe to shut it down, since it's doing so well.

The map is a Huge Pangaea with Less Aggressive AI, Conquest (and 95/95 Domination) VC, and 1000 turns because I'm *really* slow.

In Warlord, I was able to expand quickly enough that I could manage a decent tech-rate all by my lonesome, and I was aware I wouldn't be able to self-research everything in this game, but I think I ended up expanding far too slowly. I swallowed the tiny Indians once things started getting cramped, but in Warlord, I tended to turtle, not build many units, and wait until MilTrad or Replacable Parts to start storming the world. Kind of bit me in the behind here, as I later went up against the French (dragging the Vikings and English in, fat lot of good they were), and getting the Aztecs sicced on me in turn.

Where the game stands now, I've managed to make peace with both the Aztecs and French, have been for ... maybe twenty with the Aztecs and 4-5 with the French. My inexperience with Regent-level (and early) combat is the main reason my infrastructure is screwy right now.

Anyway ... if you have any in-depth questions, I'll gladly answer them. What I'm asking specifically, is what you think the best way to go about finishing the game is: should I sit back, build up tech/money and try to get ahead of everyone? Finish off the French, reorganize, and go after someone else? Anything I'm missing, infrastructure-wise, or management issues (I know I have a bunch of units sitting around from the war, should I disband them?)?

Thank you for your patience and any advice you can give.

 

[vmxa]

First thing I see is we have not sent out any boats? Much of the land is in fog.

My preference would be to not have so much land between towns. It presents with a few issues. Mainly that you have a problem with covering towns in the event of war. You have a lot of dead tiles, until you have hospitals, which you may not even build.

16 workers for all this land is adding to the problem of dead tiles. IOW you have so many tiles with no road. I am sure there are tiles being worked that could use a mine or water. This is costing you gold that could be used to research. It is costing you shields.

You are spending 28 gold on unit support. This is directly linked to the wide spacing and lack of workers.

Rouen, it is not growing and is on a river. Put those two clowns back to work and it will grow. It has a granary and a wall and a temple. It looks like you just build the granary, why? I would not make them in other than a few core towns, unless this is some sort of histo run.

You have knights, make some. Switch some of those banks. A city, no towns, needs to be making 10 gold or better or no bank, unless I have Smith's. Even then, it will not be built until I am able to do it fairly quick.

Banks are fine, but I would not want them more than I want more land. Fact is I seldom build them and not more than 6-8. If I want 2 more gold, I take two more towns.

I do not want to make banks more than knights at this stage as this is when I am thinking of annexing land.

Take a look at all towns to see what makes sense. Lindum is making a harbor, why? It is size 6 with 14 food, so it does not need a harbor. It really needs an aqua, then you can think about a harbor, if it then makes sense.

ALL CLOWNS go back to work now.

I am not going over all the towns, but Tolosa is making a uni and it is stuck at size 6, switch to an aqua. You should not have a granary here, it has no value. I would not have made a court either as it is better to get the place to a city.

You need to make an aqua and then a worker and have it chop those trees so you can feed more than 6 citizens.

I suggest you read my tutorial for Regent players.

Let me say that it is true you can make this wide spacing, but I feel it is counterproductive in nearly all games. The dead tiles are a killer and the extra traveling done prior to rails is potentially deadly.

I would rather have a few towns down. Later you can take tiles from neighbors for the best cities. I manage to get down a metro or two with CXXC spacing.

More than that I do not need in most games.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Thank you, vmxa! A few responses to some of your excellent points.

First thing I see is we have not sent out any boats? Much of the land is in fog.

Yeah. I hate boats; I'd planned to send out warriors to explore, but the French were in the way and I didn't want to start a war (then). Something I should work on, yeah?

My preference would be to not have so much land between towns. It presents with a few issues.

I'm going to build hospitals ... eventually. I can't stand the CxxC placing.

16 workers for all this land is adding to the problem of dead tiles.

My war with the French; I decided to build soldiers instead of Workers and worry about infrastructure after ... didn't expect the war to last so long, though. Regent is too different from Warlord, for me.

You are spending 28 gold on unit support.

And why I'm building those banks, because I'm no good at Specialist management and so rely on Banks and Universities for cash and research.

Rouen, it is not growing and is on a river. Put those two clowns back to work and it will grow. It has a granary and a wall and a temple. It looks like you just build the granary, why?

Actually, Paris has the Great Wall and Pyramids (part of why the war with the French lasted so long - I wanted them and Sun Tzu's, which is in Orleans), I have a hateful relationship with Granaries.

I do not want to make banks more than knights at this stage as this is when I am thinking of annexing land.

Well, I wasn't sure if I was stable enough to keep conquering, so I decided to hold off until I could get second (and third) opinions.

Lindum is making a harbor, why?

I believe it was for more Commerce, because IIRC I don't have much in the way of roads over there ... I was also holding off on Aqueducts everywhere because I didn't want to have to deal with all the extra War Weariness in Cities.

I would not have made a court either as it is better to get the place to a city.

Courthouses are left over from before I had the Forbidden Palace up - too much corruption in my cities.

I suggest you read my tutorial for Regent players.

Guide? Will do, thank you.

Thank you again, vmxa.

 

[Rodrig0]

Here's my opinion. Don't mind me, I just play on monarch, but still, here it goes:

Like they said already, a lot of space wasted. You may want to build hospitals and have large metros, but you're at the beginning of the medieval age, and it's a long way until Sanitation. I used to build hospitals too, and have metros size 17, but just think... for what? They may produce more than a city, but it isn't necesary. For most industrial age units, from the cheapest, cavalries-artilleries (80 shields), to the most expensive, tanks (100), or even marines (120), most cities won't be able to build in one turn. So unless you have a monster metro with very low corruption, making 100 shield per turn or more, all units will be built in 2 turns. So a quiet sleepy city of size 12, making 53 shields, will be as productive as a large, polluted metro making 78 shields. Both will build artilleries in 2 turns. Just an example. All other shields from the large metro will be wasted. It might help if you want to build some city improvements, but 70 shields will only give the metro a 2-3 turns advantage over the 50 shields city. And just once, because by the time you can build hospitals, there won't be many more improvements left to build. And the disadvantages are many. Pollution and unhappiness. Currently, you keep your current cities at size 8 to prevent unhappiness... how do you intend to have them happy when there will be 17 citizens? You'll need hospitals, temples, cathedrals, colosseums, and maybe even some entertainers and money sent to entertainment. So think about it, don't change your strategy just yet, just give it a small try. That's what I did, I was suspicious of cities over metros, but once I tried it, i never built hospitals again.
So, back to your game... woohooo! You were blessed with LOTS of hills. Did you set age at 3 billion years? Build more cities between hills and grassland, and you will ove them! Especially, I see some empty space between Bangalore and Dijon with floodplains, wheat, and hills. Build a city there and it will be a monster!
Build fast units! I mean, on horse. You have garlic swordsmen, but eventualy they won't be strong enough against muskets and rifles. You'll need to upgrade them to medieval infantry, and they will lose mobility. Build knights instead, you have the resources.
Build more workers. Once Dijon and Chartres finish those markets, set the city governor to emphasize food and build workers there. The flood plains should make those cities able to produce workers and grow again every 2 turns.
And now, some of my personal recommendations. Acquire more luxuries! Your cities don't grow because you can't keep your citizens happy. So what you do is, don't let them grow. Wrong. Growth is first. Let them reproduce, be happy, populate the earth! Concentrate on finding them means to be happy, after all, it is YOUR responsibility! They put their trust on you, no? Don't disappoint them. How? Sign ROP with your neighbors, then send some explorers. If they have a luxury you miss, and you can't trade with that country, don't wait for them to connect to you. Send your own workers to connect their capital to yours. And even if they don't seem to have luxuries to spare, look for unconnected luxuries and build the roads yourself. After thjey've been connected, trade. That's the case of Huexotla, at the far southeast corner. It has 2 gems, but they are not connected. It may not even have a harbor to send the gems to their own capital, much less to send the extra gems to you. So build a road there from your empire to their gems, then buy the extra gems from aztecs. Do the same for all other extra luxuries you find and your citizens will love you! Also, build another city near Orleans to claim those silks by the shore.
And trade. You have some techs they don't, and they have some you don't. You may not need Monarchy yet, so wait until it becomes even cheaper. But the french have astronomy, that might be useful to you. Your JSBach's is almost finished, so you can sell music theory to the french.

 

[Spoonwood]

So think about it, don't change your strategy just yet, just give it a small try. That's what I did, I was suspicious of cities over metros, but once I tried it, i never built hospitals again.

In my space games I'll go with fairly tight city spacing (somewhere between CxxxC and CxxC), but still build hospitals. Then I'll irrigate everywhere I can for as many scientists as I can get.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Yay, status report: I don't think it's possible for me to lose this one anymore. I waited for the peace deal I had with the French to expire (IIRC, they were giving me gpt), went back to war with them, and took all but one of their cities - Bayeux, on the other side of the continent. Made contact with the Chinese, who were the most advanced at the time, and traded techs and maps around as my galley went around the continent, although I disbanded it before it went all the way around.

I reached Industrial, had two sources of Coal in my territory (although one expired shortly), and began laying tracks and building Workers (have around 40, plus Slaves). When I had 9 Cavalry, I declared war on the English, using a RoP with the Vikings to get to them in a timely manner. Destroyed them fairly easily.

After getting Replacable Parts and upgrading all my Cannon to Artillery, and Muskets to Infantry, I then declared on the Vikings, and just finished wiping them out. The Chinese have the second-best Science, although I've been passing techs back to a few other civs to try and keep them around - I think the Less Aggressive setting is why none of the AIs have become superpowers, and instead are mostly equal.

I'm currently at war with the Aztecs (they began moving in a hostile manner, I asked the to leave, they Declared) and MA'd the ... Japanese, Romans, and possibly someone else against them.

Haven't built any Hospitals yet

So a quiet sleepy city of size 12, making 53 shields, will be as productive as a large, polluted metro making 78 shields.

53? I also tended not to build Factories (pollution bad!), but seeing as I have quite a few cities at size 12 and in the 30+ spt range, I think I'll do that once Hoover's Dam is finished. So many things that just didn't matter on Warlord that make a big difference on Regent

Currently, you keep your current cities at size 8 to prevent unhappiness... how do you intend to have them happy when there will be 17 citizens?

Lux tax, of course. I wasn't able to do that earlier in this game because I went to war without a proper infrastructure, as I'm usually a late-MA or early-IA attacker, so I'm used to having cities with Banks and Universities, as well as Adam Smith's, which gives me enough cash that I can be researching a tech in 8 turns, with 20% Lux Tax, and still make 200+ gpt.

You were blessed with LOTS of hills. Did you set age at 3 billion years?

... I did, actually - I remember reading something somewhere that the younger the planet, the more varied the terrain is, although that may have been Civ or CivII.

Especially, I see some empty space between Bangalore and Dijon with floodplains, wheat, and hills. Build a city there and it will be a monster!

I took your advice ... Nemausus. Yes, it's rather monstrous considering its age relative my other cities. Part of the problem may be that I'm just not particularly good at spotting city sites, so I use the city grids to plan for me. Something else I need to work on.

set the city governor to emphasize food and build workers there

Never. The AI's an idiot, I don't want it screwing things up for me (even if I'd screw it up worse!), just like I don't like auto-Workers, except for Pollution detail and Jungle/Marsh clearing, if I'm overflowing with them (has only happened with Industrial civs after RP).

They put their trust on you, no?

I started out in a Despotism because I keep what I kill! I'm in a Republic because I spent millenia sculpting their minds. They don't care - they're just prawns in a grub game!

That's the case of Huexotla, at the far southeast corner.

Actually something quite interesting; I'd sent a Vet MedInf to take it shortly after the Aztecs declared on me (the first time), killed one of the Spears defending it, and the full-strength MedInf got taken down by a Regular Spear ... who took one HP of damage ... and promoted. Later, I sent a Vet MedInf and an Elite Gallic Warrior to take it - and forgot about them, signing the Peace Treaty with the Aztecs the same turn they were going to take it. That Spear that was guarding it? Redlined *both* of them before dying. On a Tundra, in a size 3 or 4 Town, with no Walls. Went to attack it more recently, and it culture-Flipped. Have to get my Workers down there to hook up the Gems, though.

Also, build another city near Orleans to claim those silks by the shore.

... But I already have Silks ....

And trade. You have some techs they don't, and they have some you don't. You may not need Monarchy yet, so wait until it becomes even cheaper. But the french have astronomy, that might be useful to you. Your JSBach's is almost finished, so you can sell music theory to the french.

Yeah, I took this to heart once I started exploring. Didn't get some of the good Science Wonders (Arabs got them!), but spread techs around such that I got to more-or-less top position in the area. Been trying to keep it competitive.



Thank you guys for your help! I think once I finish this, I'm going to try a Germany game, on Normal Aggression, see if it's not just a Celtic fluke of excellent starting spot and dumbed-down AI.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

I like factories in my productive core cities. In the end game I usually have workers to burn after railroading so I can get teams to clean pollution in a turn.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Well, I haven't beaten the Celtic game yet, but I'm pretty much unbeatable - I'm researching Tanks, and even though I'm not the only one with Infantry, I am the only one with the ability to call down Artillery strikes from the heavens I've taken out the English, Zulus, Scandinavians, and Persians, driven the Aztecs into the hills to the west, and am currently at war with the Japanese and Arabs, although I'm pretty much leaving the Arabs alone while I smash the Japanese.

Anyway, so it's not done yet, but I went ahead and started a German game ... ugh. Well, the starting spot was alright ... but I've got a lot of plains and no water nearby . Well, I'll just upload the save and let you guys see how badly I've messed up, hm? Is this a better city positioning than my Celtic game? I think I'm still short Workers, and I think I'm also making at least two more mistakes -

Spoiler :

Wonder-building when I can't really afford it and trying to research Republic with virtually no Science, and maybe having too small a military ....

- but there's only one thing that I'm really worried about at the moment, and that's the Japanese declaring war on me, since they have the ability to block my access to water. Anyway, how do you think it's going so far?

 

[Brucha]

As far as your German game, I think that the lack of the ability to Irrigate will be a MAJOR problem from looking at the CivAssist file. Also, you are building 4 Wonders? Most of your cities have no garrisons, which is fine, unless you are attacked, then you end up having to switch production to build a military unit and lose precious shields.

You have some very isolated enemy cities around you. I suggest building up your military and taking them. Just east of Laevatien is a enemy city with a lake that you can use to irrigate tiles. Also colonize the iron source near Bremen so u can build Swordsmen.

I have a strange way of playing my games so some might disagree with me so I suggest a second opinion...

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Irrigation isn't such a problem now (around 1100 AD), but yeah, it was really painful early on. I don't really remember which of those Wonders I got built, except the Great Library - which catapulted me from middle-end of the tech race to one of the leaders, so it was worth it, at least.

For the Garrisons: How do you compromise expansion (especially with such a dry start) and defense? I remembered that the AI 'values' attackers more than defenders, which is why I built so few Spears compared to Warriors (also, cheaper), but early game, and especially in expansion periods, how do you keep your defense on par with your empire growth?

*EDIT*: Also, it appears that game is still on Less Aggressive and not Normal Aggression. Oops, but oh well.

Iron: Yeah, IIRC, I was going to Colonize it, then decided it'd be better to wait for the Culture borders to expand and save the Worker. Uh, I think I ended up waiting until MI and Pikes before that happened .... In better news, there's Saltpetre on the Mountain just south of Berlin!

Expansion: The American city (is it there yet?) east of Bremen was absorbed by Culture flipping, as was the Viking city you mentioned (although I had already begun Irrigation by irrigating the Viking tile and spreading it back to my cities), and as I'd been planning to go to war with them for some time, I had a healthy army of MI, Longbows, Trebuchets, and some 4 Knights (I kept building them, though), after the flip I went to war with them and began conquering. They've got three cities or so - I got the Japanese to MA against them as well - and I'm now deciding whether to attack the Japanese (probably my most dangerous nearby foe, of the Dutch, Japanese, Ottomans, French, and Americans) or the Americans (who have Furs, at least, and an empire that's rather tall but not wide before it hits the ocean).

I'm not sure if I should try to cripple the Japanese before they get too much more dangerous, or eliminate the Americans before they start - they've recently started building Knights, and have Pikes, but I've got Muskets, Cannon, a Knight Army, MI, Longbows, and am working on Magnetism to get to the next age (prays for not Medicine). I figure I'll bum Mil-Trad off someone else, as I don't have a particularly notable tech lead, and I really do prefer defensive aggressive armies of artillery and 1-Move units instead of the more mobile Attackers (except Panzers ....), so I'm not losing a whole lot, as long as I have some good resources (*cough* coal, rubber *cough*).