General discussion thread

Yeah, the satellite! How many tiles will we be able to see with one satellite? (I assume not all tiles.) If it moves only 1 tile per turn, it might take quite a while until the player can see the other side of the world. Is there a possibility to place satellites on different tiles (e.g. on other side of the world) right after their construction?

Oh, I see. We need perhaps a new help text here. The satellite can go to all plots (except there is already one of your own satellites). The satellite has got like ICBMs an unlimited range. And by the way - the AI support is good, too! :)

Will I be able to continue my current 4.15 save after installing the new patch? Or do I have to start a new game?

Depends on what I'm going to do and what you ask me for. I could offer a savegame compatible patch if I remove the satellite stuff. But I hoped that this would not be required because 4.15 seems to be stable and all most bug free.

Btw, what do you think about posting a CCV-thread in the main mod forum? To advertise CCV a bit and get more attention for this great mod? (Afforress did this with his AND-mod and I think more people got aware of it.)

I had planed it with version 5. But as it seems now I won't be able to construct a new fantastic version 5 in one big step. And now that 4.15 is very stable... But I think we should really wait until I could finish the 2nd UUs and added more art stuff. That's something very many gamers are missing in CCV.
 
Oh, I see. We need perhaps a new help text here. The satellite can go to all plots (except there is already one of your own satellites). The satellite has got like ICBMs an unlimited range. And by the way - the AI support is good, too! :)
Thanks for clarifying that. I look forward to that!
Depends on what I'm going to do and what you ask me for. I could offer a savegame compatible patch if I remove the satellite stuff. But I hoped that this would not be required because 4.15 seems to be stable and all most bug free.
Well, I would prefer to get the satellites. ;) New features always trump old saves (at least in my case). :)
I had planed it with version 5. But as it seems now I won't be able to construct a new fantastic version 5 in one big step. And now that 4.15 is very stable... But I think we should really wait until I could finish the 2nd UUs and added more art stuff. That's something very many gamers are missing in CCV.
That is true. Actually, that is why I hinted you to the events and great person images in the new thread I opened. While they don't add any new game mechanics, I had the feeling that they attracted a number of players to avain's Quot Capita mod. So, I thought they might like to see those flavor features in CCV too.
(However, if you included those pictures, it would be good to make them optional (if possible), since it is likely that not all players will feel the same about such features.)
 
Yeah, the satellite! How many tiles will we be able to see with one satellite? (I assume not all tiles.) (...)

Good that you asked. I made a mistake here. Answer now: The same range as you can see from an aircraft recon mission.
 
Good that you asked. I made a mistake here. Answer now: The same range as you can see from an aircraft recon mission.
Does that mean that we have to "base" the satellite in another (foreign) city to see its surroundings? Is that possible even if we don't have OB with that civ?
 
Oh something else: I couldn't find the "trade on rivers"-icon under "sailing" (also not under "ship contruction" - in the tech tree) anymore. Did you get rid of trade on rivers? Or did I miss something?
 
Does that mean that we have to "base" the satellite in another (foreign) city to see its surroundings? Is that possible even if we don't have OB with that civ?

Yes. You will have to send the satellite in/over the city. And yes, you can always do so. You need no OB agreement. And only you will know that you are doing so.


Oh something else: I couldn't find the "trade on rivers"-icon under "sailing" (also not under "ship contruction" - in the tech tree) anymore. Did you get rid of trade on rivers? Or did I miss something?

I think you missed it. River trade should come with sailing. And an inspection of my version says that it is so. Don't you have under sailing the trade icon to the right of the moai statues in the tech chooser?
 
Hm, I was more careful now and saw it in the hover text. But I couldn't see the icon you mentioned - and which I was looking for. I am playing ver4.15.
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


(One odd thing: I think I remember that I saw the "trade on coast"-icon under "ship construction" before I researched it, but now that is gone too :confused: ) I will start a new game and see whether I will see it there (before researching it).
 
:hmm: What's going on here? You really haven't got the buttons. They should be there and they also should not disappear. I don't get it. :hmm:

€: The new nuke mechanic is done! The damage done by nukes depends now on the nuke radius and your distance to the explosion. Further more the terrain your in and between you and the explosion may reduce the nuke effect. :rotfl:

If we want to we can now really simulate tactical and fussion nukes.
 

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:hmm: What's going on here? You really haven't got the buttons. They should be there and they also should not disappear. I don't get it. :hmm:
Sorry, I don't get it either. I started a new game, checked immediately the tech tree and ... everything was okay. I saw the trade-icons. Fine. Could there be a problem due to the change from before to after the tech is researched?
Well, if nobody else reports it then it might be just me. Perhaps others who read this could check their tech tree ("sailing" and "ship construction") after they have researched the techs and report whether they have the same problem.

€: The new nuke mechanic is done! The damage done by nukes depends now on the nuke radius and your distance to the explosion. Further more the terrain your in and between you and the explosion may reduce the nuke effect. :rotfl:

If we want to we can now really simulate tactical and fussion nukes.
Great! That is great news!
When you release it could you provide some information about which terrain (the unit is in) has what effects?
 
Advanced Nukes:

The base damage reduction is:

- 20% for city, forest and jungle
- 40% for hills
- 100% for peaks

But the system is very complex. Lets have a look at an example. We will nuke the plot in the middle with a H-bomb (Nuke Radius 2; not part of CCV at the moment).

Spoiler :
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And that is the result.

Spoiler :
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As you can see the nuke explosion looses power from inside to outside. The minimum damage is 10%. The intervall over the whole explosion area is 35% - 135% damage. But the terrain may reduce the semi random part of 25% - 125%.

The plot in the middle is flat land. So there is no reduction from this plot so it suffers from 10% + 25% + 2*33% + rand(0%-34%) damage.

The plot in the south has also no terrain protection because the center plot is flat land and the plot itself is flat, too. So it suffers from 10% + 25% + 1*33% + rand(0%-34%) damage.

The plot in the north of the center has a forest and so the damage is 10% + (25% + 1*33% + rand(0%-34%)) * (100 - 20) / 100

The plot in the northeast of the center has a forest and hills; so the damage is 10% + (25% + 1*33% + rand(0%-34%)) * (100 - (20 + 40)) / 100

So it should be more clear for plots near the center.

Now lets have a look at two plots in a distance of two! The plots in the west and east are easy to explain.

West:
The explosion comes to this plot over the center plot, the three peaks and the plot itself. Three reduction lines! So the first reduction comes from the center plot. But here 0%. The second reduction comes from the line of the three peaks. The reduction is (3*100%)/3 plots = 100%. So the plot behind this wall will only suffer under the base damage of 10%! It doesn't matter in this case what the terrain of the plot itself is.

East:
The explosion comes over the center plot, the three hills (one with forest) and the plot itself. So the reduction of the hills line is (60% + 40% + 40%)/3 plots = 46%. This what the explosion will loose in this line. But because the target plot itself is flat there will we no reduction of the left over explosive power. If it had been a hills plot the explosion would have lost again 40% of its current strength here.

So this system is very intuitive. And as you can see the results are fantastic. This is what you should expect. And it is even better for the AI because human sometimes attack the plot next to a city for maximum damage while the AI always attacks the city. With the effect of loosing power by distance and terrain the AI behaviour makes more sense. And it allows to simulate different kinds of nukes in a perfect way.

By the way the destructive power against buildings and improvements as well as the damage to population also depends now on the distance to the explosion!
 

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Thomas SG :goodjob: ! Will you include it in your next patch?
And how many different kind of nukes will you include in CCV? (I think you mentioned two in one of your last posts.)
 
Thomas SG :goodjob: ! Will you include it in your next patch?
And how many different kind of nukes will you include in CCV? (I think you mentioned two in one of your last posts.)

Yes, the new nuke mechanic is already in the patch. And about the nuke types I'm not sure at the moment. I think I will add a tactical nuke with radius 0 and keep all strategic weapons as they are now. But the tactical nuke will be no MAD nuke and won't be able to pretarget.
About the H-bombs I need more information. If those nukes are only used as war heads of ICBMs I may think about a new ICBM type. If also aircrafts can drop H-bombs I think there will be no fussion bomb with radius 2 in CCV. That would require too much new unit types.

If you want to improve the AI behaviour handling terrain and feature damage set in the GlobalDefines PATH_DAMAGE_WEIGHT to a higher value. My code inspection says 20000 should be a good value. Optimized code and value with the patch too. :)
 
Yes, the new nuke mechanic is already in the patch.
Great! :goodjob:
And about the nuke types I'm not sure at the moment. I think I will add a tactical nuke with radius 0 and keep all strategic weapons as they are now. But the tactical nuke will be no MAD nuke and won't be able to pretarget.
About the H-bombs I need more information. If those nukes are only used as war heads of ICBMs I may think about a new ICBM type. If also aircrafts can drop H-bombs I think there will be no fussion bomb with radius 2 in CCV. That would require too much new unit types.
Well, I do agree with you about not adding too many new units. So for the beginning I would go for the units, such as ICBMs, that are already implemented in Civ4 but with your new nuke mechanic. I would really like to see that in action... :D
Do you plan to make this new mechanic only working with H-bombs or also (potentially with minor effects) for A-bombs?

Oh and when will you add this nice Lost Battles feature of which you posted some screens a while ago? ;)
 
Great! :goodjob:

Well, I do agree with you about not adding too many new units. So for the beginning I would go for the units, such as ICBMs, that are already implemented in Civ4 but with your new nuke mechanic. I would really like to see that in action... :D
Do you plan to make this new mechanic only working with H-bombs or also (potentially with minor effects) for A-bombs?

Oh and when will you add this nice Lost Battles feature of which you posted some screens a while ago? ;)

That's the good thing with the new mechanic. It works for all nuke units. It works for missiles and bombers. It works for all nuke ranges from 0 to what ever you want. But more than radius 2 makes really no sense.

And my studies of nukes came to the result that I will add two new units with the patch.

- tactical nuke missile (range 0; no MAD nuke)
- heavy strategic longrange bomber (range 2; MAD nuke)

And Lost Battles is already in the patch too. :D
 
And my studies of nukes came to the result that I will add two new units with the patch.

- tactical nuke missile (range 0; no MAD nuke)
- heavy strategic longrange bomber (range 2; MAD nuke)
Looking forward to it! :)
And Lost Battles is already in the patch too. :D
:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: I am breathlessly awaiting the new patch...

Sorry, but after reading about all these new awesome features that you will include in the next version, I can't resist to ask you: What else can we expect? (And when?) ;)
 
New speed dll? Do you mean new speed dll like a faster dll or like a new game speed such as mega-epic or so?
Hope you solved your problems. :)
 
Ah, shorter turn times would be great.
I remember that phungus tried to speed up his LoR-mod by - I think - getting rid of as many callbacks as possible. But you have probably done that already. I don't know if looking into LoR will give you some ideas in that regard (but probably not ver131, IIRC ver128 was faster.
 
Any volunteers for a test of an in between version with the first speed DLL? But don't expect too much effect. This is just level 1! But this version also includes some other improvements like the advanced nukes and better AI behaviour, bugfixes for AUA and MAD and the satellite stuff.

Okay, help text is missing here. You will get between 2 and 22 satellites from the satellite network depending on the map size. And the AI is not teached to build the project with the right priority in this version. It's too low. But that's it.

Please tell me if you are using this version and if you notice an effect.

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