General discussion thread

[Thomas SG]

Thomas SG, I saw the following pic in one of your posts in the AUA thread:

Does that mean, we will be able to trade units in CCV 4.29H+?
And what is the difference between "trade techs" and "broker techs"?
What does "trade religions" mean? Is that "force others to adopt your religion"? Or something else?

Yes and No. Afforess Realistic Diplomacy Mod has got a component that allows to trade workers or collateral units from catapult to modern artillery. This code is also included in CCV. But I don't like it. So it was not in use and hidden. But if you want to use it you can now do so. A better version of unit trade will maybe come with CCV 5. Depends on my free time.

And need my speed is right about the difference between trade and broker tech.

Trade religion is just the known capability to force another player to adopt your religion. Everything in this tab is just what you already know from the BTS diplomacy and Afforess Realistic Diplomacy Mod. New is just your access to the unit trade.

____________________________

Why is it that I can only see 10 civilizations in that menu in the lower right corner of the screen? I've searched around, but found no answer, except something about the Community Civ V.ini, but mine was completely different so I didn't add / change anything. I also found something here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8107799&highlight=scoreboard#post8107799

Which was the opposite of what I wanted... Anyway, is it possible to make that toggleable (spelling?) scorescreen display all civilizations? Because I find this really annoying to be honest.

Thanks in advance, need my speed

Hmm, I looked there, but couldn't find such an option. Anyway, thanks!

CCV should show you all civs. In the scoreboard tab of the BUG/CCV config you can choose how many civs are shown at the same time. 10 may be your current setting. But if there are more civs to display than you allowed in the config tab CCV should give you a slider (POS) that allows you to check all civs.

Please check it. If needed I'll make some screens for you.

 

[Thomas SG]

Thomas SG, could you have a look at the culture over trade routes (again?). I produce quite a lot of my own culture in my capital (2-3 wonders - one of them now with 16 culture I think - plus quite a number of buildings), but I am down to 49% own culture versus 51% foreign culture. With a maximum of 10 foreign culture per turn that seems a bit odd. New foreign trade routes seem to reduce only my own culture, but not (so much) foreign culture. Could that be? Or am I imagining that?

I'll check it before I release 4.29I.

_________________________________________

Okay. Here we are. I know I'm late but here is the promised release of CCV 4.29H+. And although it's not today I've got a gift for you. I've decided to give you once again one of my never released features from my HDD. I've implemented the basic "Bonus Production by Buildings" code. What it is? What do you expect? No, this is not what you know from AND! Never ever think so. This is hot and new D although the basic code is about 2 years old )! The current use may be small but the effects are fine. And there is for sure a lot we can do with it in the future. And of course I've also teached the AI.

There are new tags in CvBuildingInfo.xml that allow you to define a bonus to be consumed while another bonus is produced. In CCV 4.29H+ this new concept is used to create the new resources steel and fuel. Those replace iron and oil for the modern units. You need an intact modern infrastructure to produce and support them. Fuel is now also needed to get the move bonus from automobiles. So if you have no source of steel or fuel your modern units will heal only with half speed. You remember - only half heal speed if you are short on spare parts. And if you are out of fuel many units will be slowed down. The fuel reserve supply of your nation is reserved for your airforce, navy and armored units to keep them running. No waste of fuel for the mobilization of your infantry units.

For sure this new concept is good for the sense of the "Advanced Bombing Missions" and it gives us urgent needed effects independend from the "Require Infrastructure" mod!

Let's make an example to show more in detail how the new concept works. Let's say we got city A, B and C. A and B are connected (trade network). C not. A has got an iron resource as well as C. A and B share the iron of A. So both have got the benefits of 1 iron. And C has got it's own iron. Now we build a steel mill in B. The 1 iron in A and B will disappear and both will get the benefit of 1 steel. C still has got 1 iron. Now we connect C with the trade network of A and B. Now A, B and C all get the same benefit of 2 steel. All iron has been removed or in other words has been used to produce the steel. The steel mill in B uses the one iron from A and the one iron from C and produces two times steel.

This is how we do it...

And here the complete change log from 4.29H to 4.29H+:

Spoiler :

Changelog 4.29H -> 4.29H+:

Art:
- some new button arts
- new unsurfaced road art
- mastery victory video added
- tried correct positioning of GP bar text and research bar text for high resolutions
- CCV options buttons is now optional via BUG option interface
- bug fix for wrong chinese and standard longswordsman and maceman art style
- fixed two wrong event images paths from BAT Mod
- added some early celtic unit art
- using now mini flag buttons and if neccessary a 5% hurdle to limit the shown civs with cultural influence in the plot help

AI:
- teached the AI the effects of gold cost for (rail)roads
- teached the AI to handle the bonus production of buildings

Gameplay:
- Apo and UN don't require (for construction) a special victory; both are still required for diplo victory
- diplomatic victory votes are only possible if diplomatic victory is enabled and mastery victory is disabled
- build (rail)road costs now some gold
- new game option: Realistic Culture Spread (improved version from AND)
- new game option: Peace fixes Borders
- increased number of animals
- number of animals independend from total number of barb units
- allow barbs almost all unit types
- barbs can be spawned on ships
- animals can appear now in all eras
- animals are ignoring cultural borders
- super carrier can carry 1 paratrooper or cyborg
- paratrooper and cyborg can perform paradrops from super carriers
- air units can just rebase to plots in 3x unit airrange
- new resource steel
- steel can be used as substitute for iron
- modern units require now steel instead of iron
- eiffel tower now faster with steel
- new building steel mill
- ironworks needs now steel mill instead of forge
- Creative Constructions consumes now steel instead of iron
- new resource fuel
- modern units require now fuel instead of oil
- new building oil refinery
- Standard Ethanol generates now fuel instead of oil
- move bonus from automobiles for land units only if fuel is available
- need now steel to build railroad

Others:
- modified and moved Era Stopper Mod to in-game-options under "Optional"
- new config tab "Diplomacy" where you can choose in-game the possible diplomatic options (similar to AND option tab)
- new config tab "Automations" where you can configure AUA or even hide the AUA missions (similar to AND option tab)
- correctur of typo in CivilizationsInfo
- correctur of wrong ARTSTYLE for China in CivilizationsInfo
- reduced interference of CCV with other mods
- fixed bug in canBuildSubtest (workshop bug)
- set right text path for (un)happy specialist text
- fixed broken spy pedia text
- fixed bug that allowed units to choose a non valid withdraw plot
- update to RevDCM 2.82/629
- new map "PerfectWorld2g"

DOWNLOAD CCV 4.29H+ (from AtomicGamer)

 

[CellKu]

Awesome, Thomas! I am looking forward to seeing the new feature (steel and fuel) in action! (Btw, since you mentioned , can we expect more of your hidden HDD-featues for December 6? Or December 25?) (sorry couldn't resist)
If I understand you correctly, steel and fuel can only be produced (by the steel mill or the oil refinery), we cannot find them as "resource" on the map.
And I could also produce steel/fuel if I don't have an iron/oil resource, but import iron/oil and have a steel mill/oil refinery? Or I import steel/fuel directly, correct? So, there are several ways to get steel/fuel.
Well, it is nice to see a concept implemented which uses "derivative" resources for production!

What has been improved in the mapscript "perfectworld2g"?

 

[CellKu]

Afforess Realistic Diplomacy Mod has got a component that allows to trade workers or collateral units from catapult to modern artillery. This code is also included in CCV. But I don't like it. So it was not in use and hidden. But if you want to use it you can now do so. A better version of unit trade will maybe come with CCV 5. Depends on my free time.

Thanks for all your clarifications. Why don't you like that trade units code? Because of how the code is written or the concept itself (trading workers and collateral units, but not other units)?

 

[Thomas SG]

Awesome, Thomas! I am looking forward to seeing the new feature (steel and fuel) in action! (Btw, since you mentioned , can we expect more of your hidden HDD-featues for December 6? Or December 25?) (sorry couldn't resist)

If I understand you correctly, steel and fuel can only be produced (by the steel mill or the oil refinery), we cannot find them as "resource" on the map.

Of course not.

And I could also produce steel/fuel if I don't have an iron/oil resource, but import iron/oil and have a steel mill/oil refinery? Or I import steel/fuel directly, correct? So, there are several ways to get steel/fuel.

Well, it is nice to see a concept implemented which uses "derivative" resources for production!

And there will be soon some more with the advanced "Bonus Production by Buildings" code.

What has been improved in the mapscript "perfectworld2g"?

That's the log from the file.

Spoiler :

## Version History
## 2.06g - RevDCM version that tries to create two big vertically oriented
## continents with some smaller islands for the purposes of Old World
## games especially suited the Revolutions mod. North/south passage
## are randomized so that the player cannot preguess the required
## route for globe circumnavigation. Includes Fuyu's changes from
## version 2.06f.
##
## Region adjustments are:
## 1) Better tundra and polar regions
## 2) Better more extensive jungle/river regions
## 3) More plains regions
## 4) Huge Himalayan mountain regions
## 5) More broken coastline with the possibility of interior lakes
## 6) Less desert but still present. Unavoidable when the land masses
## are broader as they are in this mod.
##
## Resource adjustments:
## 1) Includes a python debug printout of the ratios of corporate
## relevant resources for better balance of the corps.
## 2) Modifies the number of corporate relevant resources to better
## balance the competitiveness of the late game corps. For
## example Sid Sushi should be less dominant.
##
## Notes:
## 1) Search for "RevolutionDCM" to find the mods specific changes
## 2) Occasionally instead of producing two relatively uniform
## landmasses, a few landmasses emerge heavily broken up into island chains.
## 3) Has not been tested on really huge maps or really tiny maps.
## 4) To further curtail sea resources, plug in some WoC sea resources that
## are corporation neutral and that displace even more of the stock
## corporate sea resources like fish. For example plug in pearls and shrimps.
## 5) In terms of land area, small maps have almost as much as standard.
## 6) Report any suggestions to the RevolutionDCM forum.
##
## 2.06f - Fuyu mods Latest Perfect World

 

[Thomas SG]

Thanks for all your clarifications. Why don't you like that trade units code? Because of how the code is written or the concept itself (trading workers and collateral units, but not other units)?

Both. Just enable the feature and try to trade a special worker. That may be impossible. And you are right. Why just collaterals? Fighters, tanks,... are much more popular trade units. But the answer is clear if you look at the current system.

 

[Thomas SG]

Hi guys.

Sorry that I had to skip the release of the edition. But we had a fantastic winter desaster here in Germany especially in my area and so all my free time was consumed by my personal fight against snow and ice.

So the new feature could not be finished in time. But the good thing is that you will get the full version now. Again a part of version 5 in version 4. It's time for a revolution. So here are three screens that show you a small part from the current development. It's not finished!

Spoiler :

 

[CellKu]

Again, an awesome teaser, Thomas! It seems CCV switches slowly from a direct unit-building dependency ("you need a certain building to build a unit") to an indirect dependency (you need a certain commodity to build a unit, and you need a certain building to produce that commodity). Really nice! I like that.
Btw, in Colonization the amount of units of a certain product that a player can produce per turn depends on the number of resource units he/she mines/imports or has stored (storage facility/granary). Will you implement something like that as well? (You might need something like that mod comp of The Lopez's for that, which limits the access to resources to a certain number per turn depending on the proximity of the resource, trade networks etc.)

How is the new feature coming along? (I.e. do you have a target date for the next release with these new features?)

I hope you overcame all that ice and snow and you are able to focus again on CCV.

 

[Thomas SG]

Again, an awesome teaser, Thomas! It seems CCV switches slowly from a direct unit-building dependency ("you need a certain building to build a unit") to an indirect dependency (you need a certain commodity to build a unit, and you need a certain building to produce that commodity). Really nice! I like that.

How is the new feature coming along? (I.e. do you have a target date for the next release with these new features?)

The current system knows to ways. Transform and produce with. So a smelting works/steel mill transforms iron into steel. So if you have 3 iron available in the city with the mill it will remove those 3 iron and add 3 steel. With the same effect to the network. A forge works different. If there are 3 iron the forge will produce with it 3 iron weapons, 3 muskets, 3 rifles,... but doesn't remove the iron itself. That gives you the chance to support a network of trading partners with weapons, medicine,...! Also a second forge would increase the number of products. The second forge would also produce 3 iron weapons, 3 muskets, 3 rifles,... .
But this is an object I would like to change in the future. I would prefer a forge that can only produce 1 iron weapon, 1 musket, 1 rifle,... even if there are 3 iron available. It should not be so overpowered. But that would make the code once again more complex and difficult. You need to test the current code first!

____________________

The release. I wanted to release tomorrow. But although created the greek unit art is still not added and I have destroyed the technology entries in the pedia. And I don't know what has damaged them. The last things I have done are the new "missing spare part buttons" in the unit help. I thought that it would be useful to see what is missing and causes the unit to heal just with half speed.
I will do what I can but I don't think that I can do it. So maybe within one week.

 

[PreLynMax]

Very good mod! You should see my YouTube LP video for this mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLPT78hE8E

Discuss the video on this thread!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402353

You know you want to click it...

 

[Thomas SG]

You know you want to click it...

I have clicked it (part one) last night. Fantastic idea. I hope you won't run into trouble with this version.

 

[Thomas SG]

Hello.

I'm uploading CCV 4.29H++ at the moment. And here is the change log:

Spoiler :

Changelog 4.29H+ -> 4.29H++:

Art:
- some new button arts
- city screen shows now all corporations in standard setting
- unit info shows now missing spare parts (-> unit heals half speed)

AI:
- improved AI handling of Advanced Cargo

Gameplay:

- new bonuses: riding horses, bronze weapons, iron weapons, crossbows, muskets, rifles, infantry equipment, steel products, oil products, heating oil, sulphur, pharmaceutical products, chemicals, explosives, ammunition, bauxite, copper wire, electronics, nuclear fuel
- new buildings: chemicals factory, electrolysis plant, nuclear industry
- new technology: refining
- many changes to unit bonus and buildings requirements
- many changes to production buildings
- airship comes now with combustion
- pikeman, phakak and halbertman require now feudalism instead of engineering
- longbowman, abyssinian archer, maceman, samurai and beserker don't require machinery anymore
- radio requires now steel
- combustion requires now refining
- factory needs now steam power instead of assembly line
- nuclear weapon project faster with nuclear fuel instead of uranium
- workers set to 50% basic work speed
- metal casting gives +100% work speed
- metal casting cheaper and iron working more expansive
- forge now possible with metal casting
- units will heal with full speed if all required resources to train are available somewhere in the empire. No need to be concentrated in a single city. If not it will heal with half speed.
- land units with engine (tank, modern armor, mobile SAM,...) have now 1 move per default, 2 moves with fuel like all other land units
- spawned barb unit types are more realistic
- surplus health gives no additional food
- tech trades only possible if both team members are able to trade techs
- public transportation gives 2 health and 1 health with environmetalism
- coal plant is now a thermal power plant that can provide energy with coal or heating oil
- reduced AI contacts to trade contacts about 50%


Others:
- fixed CTD bug by Next War (Automations) event
- fixed bug that avoided new late in game created civs to become full civs
- fixed bug that didn't allow humans to trade techs via diplo screen
- repaired events DISSIDENT_PRIEST and CLASSIC_LITERATURE
- update to RevDCM 2.83/635
- repaired civic promotions
- debuged MALI MINT settings
- Require Infrastructure Option removed (-> standard setting)


Known Problems:
- shown mini resource buttons in world builder are wrong (-25 position offset) -> reason unknown
- trouble with new greek unit art -> so not included in this version

I've got trouble with some of the new greek unit arts so they are missing in this release. I'll add them asap. And please have a look at the gold values for contact and unit trades. Are they better now? And are the counter offers of the AI now okay?

 

[CellKu]

I'm uploading CCV 4.29H++ at the moment.

Great! Thanks! I am very excited about the new resource/bonus system.

I understand most of the changes, but may I ask you why you did the following:

- radio requires now steel
- factory needs now steam power instead of assembly line

I would have thought that an assembly line was/is very important for quick production and thus makes the difference between a factory and a manufacture.

I've got trouble with some of the new greek unit arts so they are missing in this release.

Well, IMO that's not such a big problem. IMO your new conceptual ideas/features are much more important than new art.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Hello.

I'm uploading CCV 4.29H++ at the moment.

Where is it? I mean, the thread and such all still say H+?
Or did I miss something?

 

[Thomas SG]

I would have thought that an assembly line was/is very important for quick production and thus makes the difference between a factory and a manufacture.

You are right that an assembly line increases productivity. But that is not the main difference between a manufacture and a factory. In a manufacture typically a human did all steps of production. And many things were done manually or with simple machines. In a factory we have got the concept of "division of labour"! That's important. You don't need an assembly line for this. And many things that were done by men or horse power in the past are now done my machines that are powered by steampower.

The production of cloth is a good example and also the beginning of industrialism. The Spinning Jenny - was the first real machine and is the symbol for the industrial age.

 

[Thomas SG]

Where is it? I mean, the thread and such all still say H+?
Or did I miss something?

No. The upload takes some time. And the first attempt was broken. AtomicGamer says 40 Minutes left. So I will go with my dog now and check it again when we are back.

It is done. Check the database for the new version.

 

[Thomas SG]

Please check the database for the latest patch.

 

[CellKu]

Thomas, you are faster producing new patches than I can play/download...

Since I haven't been able to play your latest patches, please take the following with a grain of salt. In the bug thread you posted:

Yes, resources are still limitless. And yes, two forges can and should produce two rifles. But they should only produce two rifles even if there are 10 iron in the cities available. With the old system they would have produced 20 rifles. Now exactly two.

This is intentional because you should be able to sell weapons (and medicine) to friends even if you only got one basic bonus but several production buildings.

Now, I got a question/thought:
Have you connected the production of units with the production of resources? Meaning: If the player has two cities and in each of them a forge and trades on set of rifles away to an AI, can the player still produce two riflemen (one in each city) or only in one of them? If each rifleman that the player builds would require one "production stream" of rifles, setting up multiple production facilities (in this case: forges) would make sense and at the same time world wide resource production would not result in a total overflow of end products (e.g. rifles).
But perhaps you are already working on something like that.

 

[Thomas SG]

Now, I got a question/thought:
Have you connected the production of units with the production of resources? Meaning: If the player has two cities and in each of them a forge and trades on set of rifles away to an AI, can the player still produce two riflemen (one in each city) or only in one of them? If each rifleman that the player builds would require one "production stream" of rifles, setting up multiple production facilities (in this case: forges) would make sense and at the same time world wide resource production would not result in a total overflow of end products (e.g. rifles).
But perhaps you are already working on something like that.

The overflow of weapons and medicine is intentional. And the behaviour is like in BTS. As long as there is the bonus available in the network you train as many units as you like (have cities).

EDIT: And I'm already working on a new patch that is going to improve the AI. At the moment the AI handling is not so good.

EDIT: It's done! The AI can handle the new system now as good as the old system.

 

[Thomas SG]

Patch I for 4.29H++ is online.