AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
or W-W-SW or NW-SW-SW, depending on hills.
General Planning: War Gaming the Map
- Thread starter Krill
- Start date
Krill
Deity
Yeah, that's the route we ought to be taking...
Ronnie1
Deity
Warrior #2 comes out of city on route 4777?...? depends on what we find at the third 7 of course.
Settler comes out on route (47)(17)(7)(?)...with 4th move dependent on what the warrior has found...if no food N of the wheat, then 4th move is (12) to the production site...if food is found N of wheat, then it changes of course.
Settler comes out on route (47)(17)(7)(?)...with 4th move dependent on what the warrior has found...if no food N of the wheat, then 4th move is (12) to the production site...if food is found N of wheat, then it changes of course.
Ronnie1
Deity
What if we have no roads? What if warrior #1 finds more copper east or horses east! I am still not convinced we need Wheel before AH.
Wellilltrymybest without running the exact numbers(i can do that at work in 12 hours if you wish)
in any event if horses were a priority we should of research that #1 instead of mining ==>bw.
as it stands now out settler will be doen before we discover AH and as such lose time if we wait to discover it. this is still on the unknown fact if we have copper or not.
So since the AH play doesn't affect settler #1, it can only affect settler #2 placement. if we follow this logic then settler #2 won't be done until after we have discovered the wheel (and AH if it is next). thus gettign the wheel first gives our workers, of which we will have 3, lots to do. every turn at the beggining of the game count (that move point for the settler is huge)
roads make things go faster in our heartland, which is more important that chariots IMO.
in any event if horses were a priority we should of research that #1 instead of mining ==>bw.
as it stands now out settler will be doen before we discover AH and as such lose time if we wait to discover it. this is still on the unknown fact if we have copper or not.
So since the AH play doesn't affect settler #1, it can only affect settler #2 placement. if we follow this logic then settler #2 won't be done until after we have discovered the wheel (and AH if it is next). thus gettign the wheel first gives our workers, of which we will have 3, lots to do. every turn at the beggining of the game count (that move point for the settler is huge)
roads make things go faster in our heartland, which is more important that chariots IMO.
Ronnie1
Deity
Well BW allows us to chop...VERY valuable imo...but I would rather have AH before Wheel to make a better informed decision about settling. I believe at least 1 other regular poster said the same thing.
I believe we can still have AH before settler #1.
I believe we can still have AH before settler #1.
azzaman333
meh
The wheel is needed to connect the copper.
Therefore, my vote goes to the Wheel.
Therefore, my vote goes to the Wheel.
Krill
Deity
There's something else I've spent a short while thinking about on the train home. The copper city is a great production city, and should keep us safe from barbs. The capital is a good city for pumping workers and settlers when at size 5. How far, though, do we want to expand? 5 cities? 6? Or will we want to slow down before then. How much militray will we need? What should we build if we don't want to expand past 5 cities?
I just ran a quick and dirty sim trying to oracle alphabet (Writting>pottery>AH>myst>med>preidthood, ignoring IW, assumption is we find someone and can buy it off them. NOt a good assumption I know...) and at the same time getting out that quick third city, primary focus being on the third city and just teching to priesthood as tech allowed without. Basic numbers are that we could oracle alphabet by 1720BC in the capital using 1 forest chop (to get a mine up and running in the cap so that the cow city could use the grass hill, so the forest had to be chopped anyway).
This is in no way a suggestion that we do this, I just wanted to thorw these numbers out to see if someone else would like to have a look at it.
I just ran a quick and dirty sim trying to oracle alphabet (Writting>pottery>AH>myst>med>preidthood, ignoring IW, assumption is we find someone and can buy it off them. NOt a good assumption I know...) and at the same time getting out that quick third city, primary focus being on the third city and just teching to priesthood as tech allowed without. Basic numbers are that we could oracle alphabet by 1720BC in the capital using 1 forest chop (to get a mine up and running in the cap so that the cow city could use the grass hill, so the forest had to be chopped anyway).
This is in no way a suggestion that we do this, I just wanted to thorw these numbers out to see if someone else would like to have a look at it.
Krill
Deity
OK, and back to normality; Ran a few sims on the copper city; if we irrigate the wheat, then mine the copper, road the copper, road the plains adjectent to the copper and city, then mine a river plains hill with one worker, we can get the copper city to size 4 by turn 53, having produced 2 axes and 3 warriors, and will be working on the grassland hill mine. That's 105 hammers in 19 turns from a city settled on turn 34, which isn't shabby. At that point it could either knock out a quick worker to help road down to the gems and start chopping jungle or carry on with military if wanted. We could have the gems city settled by turn 65 easily, along with the 4 workers to improve it (and most of the mpreimproving it as well, which might be overkill...)
Krill
Deity
Sim has been updated.
Viva_Chingon
Condition 1
Krill...you're pretty far out there with your sims but I wanted to compare notes.
Do we have anything better in the pipe for T43 than:
Quite a bit of carry over from the chop VC just finished in IS toward next build.
The placement of C2 might not be optimal now that I look at it...mtns. Looking at it, I'd have placed it SE(3) doing it again.
Warrior 3 is offscreen too...I just fortified them off in the hills somewhere.
Do we have anything better in the pipe for T43 than:
- 4 Warriors
- 3 Workers (4 total on T44, start building axeman)
- 2 cities (settled between wheat/copper), IS= size 3, C2 = size 2
- 2 Wheats and 1 Copper, connected to capitol
- Wheel->AH->Pottery->2 turns into next tech (I chose sailing to get galleys up and exploring the coast...HR if we have horses)
Quite a bit of carry over from the chop VC just finished in IS toward next build.
The placement of C2 might not be optimal now that I look at it...mtns. Looking at it, I'd have placed it SE(3) doing it again.
Warrior 3 is offscreen too...I just fortified them off in the hills somewhere.
Krill
Deity
Krill
Deity
Questions we need to ask:
- Do we need a road to the copper city? when the borders pop 5 turns after settling, so long as we found on the plains hill we will have the trade route via the river. (Thanks Sullla)
- Does the copper city have enough tiles to work if we only give it one dedicated worker?
- Do we really want to cottage the capital or do we want to leave the capital as a pure hammer city in the early game?
- How many forests do we chop pre maths?
- How many explorers do we want, and would we prefer warriors, axes or chariots to explore for us?
- What about fogbusters? How many would we be willing to use, and what units would we like them to be?
Viva_Chingon
Condition 1
A new city ungarrisoned? Is that settler going it alone then (un escorted)? I'm not sure about that -- unless we have a warrior overlooking the route to make sure it would be barb free. To that end, I don't remember what was said earlier (2 or 3 cities up before barbs) but we'd be getting close to that point.
Where did you insert the third settler?
Where are we at on research?
How much longer till copper is connected?
From my perspective I will agree with you -- faster but maybe not better. I'd like to see if we can find some middle ground. We might be able to have 3 cities up, garrisoned, and be working on the road for copper already -- maybe have it all up ~T55?
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I suppose we don't need one ASAP, but I think having one up for units is important.
After we get the Farm and Mine up, I don't think it would have to grow that fast -- one worker might suffice...but I'd like to play with that idea a little bit.
I like putting up cottages ASAP IOT get them started toward full capacity early. Otherwise there are 2 plains hills there which will each produce 4
and 1 
ea.
I like the minimum here (as many as we need to get the workers/settlers we want by 'due date'), unless we decide on a pre-math wonder...
I love chariots for scouting -- they're cheap and strong against early barbs (-archers) and have double movement in the open. By the time they're getting killed by swordsmen/archers we should have a good idea of the land between us and our rivals.
As many as we need...we shouldn't need many though. Usually 2-3 long distance scouts are good for me; and I usually delete them if they get trapped or are obsolete by the time they've completed their mission(s).
Where did you insert the third settler?
Where are we at on research?
How much longer till copper is connected?
From my perspective I will agree with you -- faster but maybe not better. I'd like to see if we can find some middle ground. We might be able to have 3 cities up, garrisoned, and be working on the road for copper already -- maybe have it all up ~T55?
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I suppose we don't need one ASAP, but I think having one up for units is important.
After we get the Farm and Mine up, I don't think it would have to grow that fast -- one worker might suffice...but I'd like to play with that idea a little bit.
I like putting up cottages ASAP IOT get them started toward full capacity early. Otherwise there are 2 plains hills there which will each produce 4
and 1 ea.I like the minimum here (as many as we need to get the workers/settlers we want by 'due date'), unless we decide on a pre-math wonder...
I love chariots for scouting -- they're cheap and strong against early barbs (-archers) and have double movement in the open. By the time they're getting killed by swordsmen/archers we should have a good idea of the land between us and our rivals.
As many as we need...we shouldn't need many though. Usually 2-3 long distance scouts are good for me; and I usually delete them if they get trapped or are obsolete by the time they've completed their mission(s).
Krill
Deity
The settler only leaves our borders on the turn it settles, and as stated in the above post, if we move warrior two from garrison duty in the copper city 2 turns before warrior 3 is built there, warrior 2 can garrison the new city. The Copper city should be perfectly safe. Copper connected turn 47 as stated in the above post.
Research is 25 beakers in IW (wheel/pottery/AH finished end of turn 41).
Research is 25 beakers in IW (wheel/pottery/AH finished end of turn 41).
Viva_Chingon
Condition 1
And the Hauge looks like it gets Cows+Sugar, right?
I like your plan; I wanna see Memphus'. Then I'll see if I can do any better...HA! A guy can try, can't he?
I like your plan; I wanna see Memphus'. Then I'll see if I can do any better...HA! A guy can try, can't he?
