General Strategic Questions

[Idiodyssey]

I just got into Civ 4 about two months ago and while I have a pretty solid grip on the game, I have some strategic questions. Keep in mind this is vainlla Civ 4, although I did just buy the expansion but haven't had a chance to install/play it yet.

1. What's a good maximum number of cities to build? Traditionally, I play as Catherine with Financial and Creative. I go for 8 cities, because I need banks in eight cities to build the Wall Street wonder and build it in my capitol. I tend to emphasize my capitol, using the civic Bureaucracy. Is this a good strat? It's fairly easy for me to win the Space Race/Tech race on Noble every game I play.

2. What buildings are essential for every city? I'm familiar with the concept of city specialization, but there are still times where I tend to build lots of the same buildings in every city. For example, in new cities I always build a granary and a barracks. However, I almost always have a problem with unhappiness (which leads to my next issues) due to overcrowdedness, so is the granary bulding, which increases growth, a bad choice? Is the barracks a bad choice for every city? Later on I tend to build courthouses in every city, as well as gold increasing buildings such as grocers and markets since I tend to go for tech races. Is there a core set of buildings that every city should have, and then decide on what other buildings to build based on what that city's specialization is?

3. Unhappiness is almost always a problem, although I've gotten much better about managing city growth. I think part of the problem is that I never go for early religions, I almost always go for Christianity, and if I miss that, Islam, which means I don't have the added happiness from state religion/temples. Are there particular instances where late religions are better? For my gold/research oriented strategies, I don't rely on religion-related income, espicially since I hardly ever generate a great prophet.

4. I don't think I've ever built a lumbermill or watermill, and I tend to wait on improving hills until machinery in which I can build windmills. Are lumbermills/watermills particularly useful?

5. When I capture enemy citites, it seems like I don't get any of the cultural/health/happiness benefits from pre-existing buildings in that city, and it's almost as if I have to build tha city from scratch. Is there a certain amount of time until buildings in that city will start enacting their benefits (that differs from the amount of turns the city is in revolt when initially captured)?


Also, I'd like to say how both relieved and disappointed I am that the Cossack has been downgraded to 15 strength. I always play as Catherine, and the Cossack is my ace in the hole midgame. I usually play a defensive game while I beeline to Military Tradition and Gunpowder, taking note of which civs have been pissing me off and which have higher scores than me. As soon as I can build Cossacks, I funnel all production into Cossacks and turn my research down to 0% for a few rounds so I can afford upgrades to Cossacks for any horse archers/knights I have. At this point any other civ is lucky to have even a knight. It's pathetic. I can completely slaughter any civilization of my choice at this point. So, while it will be sad to see this strategy have less usefulness, I always recognized how cheap it was and I'm glad I can't be tempted to use it anymore.

Not to mention Catherine is no longer Creative/Financial, my favorite combo. Kind of sucks that no civ is Creative/Financial anymore.

 

[zyphyr]

1- Number of cities?
What difficulty level, map size, number of enemies, leader, and intended victory condition?

2- Required buildings? Happiness generating buildings (unless you have low food). Granaries. Maybe forges.

3- You don't have to found religions to get the benefits of them. Let some spread in on their own and build temples. In the early game, your only real alternatives for managing unhappiness are Slavery and Hereditary Rule. Get that whip cracking. Late game, there is always Theaters and Coloseums to help out.

4- I generally don't use watermills, but I do on rare occasions find myself doing a few lumbermills.

5- When you capture a city, the normal culture generating buildings get destroyed. The wonders stop generating culture. Some other buildings get wiped out. You should, on the other hand, be getting the health and happiness from anything that manages to survive once the resistance ends.

 

[Idiodyssey]

Normal game conditions are Noble, Continents, Normal speed, huge map, 11 AI. I usally go for space race/tech climb, which is why I go for eight cities with banks in each so I can build Wall Street wonder in my capitol, which almost always produces the most commerce. That 100% increase in commerce is a huge advantage and after that, no other civ has a chance of beating me in tech climbing, assuming I'm playing with the emphasis on commerce/science.

So Wonders become useless in conquered cities? Do they eventually start generating their normal benefits again? Does any building generating culture get destroyed, or buildings generating only culture? For example, I can imagine a Theatre, which only generates culture getting destroyed, but what about a Library which also generates science?

 

[Preston85]

I just got into Civ 4 about two months ago and while I have a pretty solid grip on the game, I have some strategic questions. Keep in mind this is vainlla Civ 4, although I did just buy the expansion but haven't had a chance to install/play it yet.

Sounds a bit like me so i'll try and reply with what I've learnt.

1. What's a good maximum number of cities to build? Traditionally, I play as Catherine with Financial and Creative. I go for 8 cities, because I need banks in eight cities to build the Wall Street wonder and build it in my capitol. I tend to emphasize my capitol, using the civic Bureaucracy. Is this a good strat? It's fairly easy for me to win the Space Race/Tech race on Noble every game I play.

I don't place a limit, I build as many as I can support with keeping research above 60% unless at war so am not building infrastucture. In that case it will drop a bit lower but switching to Organized Religion once war is over helps build things quickly to get research back up.

2. What buildings are essential for every city? I'm familiar with the concept of city specialization, but there are still times where I tend to build lots of the same buildings in every city. For example, in new cities I always build a granary and a barracks. However, I almost always have a problem with unhappiness (which leads to my next issues) due to overcrowdedness, so is the granary bulding, which increases growth, a bad choice? Is the barracks a bad choice for every city? Later on I tend to build courthouses in every city, as well as gold increasing buildings such as grocers and markets since I tend to go for tech races. Is there a core set of buildings that every city should have, and then decide on what other buildings to build based on what that city's specialization is?

I personally build in every city:
Grannery - growth
Library - helps borders even in military cities
courthouses - important once you have 5 or so city's especially if they get 2 or 3 city's away from the capital.

Barracks I only do in my early cities(first 3 or 4) and later production cities. I usually have a lot of hybrid cities but I think thats just through dodgy placement and lack of forsight on my part.

You need to use the "stop growth" button. Also look up Slavery, I'm just getting used to using it, its much better to use the whip if you have low happyness. Granary helps city's recover from your whipping.

3. Unhappiness is almost always a problem, although I've gotten much better about managing city growth. I think part of the problem is that I never go for early religions, I almost always go for Christianity, and if I miss that, Islam, which means I don't have the added happiness from state religion/temples. Are there particular instances where late religions are better? For my gold/research oriented strategies, I don't rely on religion-related income, espicially since I hardly ever generate a great prophet.

Ease off the farms, population grows quite quick at low population so its worth working a cottage to build its size up. You'll be limited by happyness/heath before food.

If you don't get one of the early 3 religions make friends with someone who has a religion, get open borders and there religion should spread quicker. Once you have it spread about and happyness under control you could then attack your religious partner later on and take that shrine for yourself!

If you get one of the early 3 religions try for oracle, and no other wonders in that city so your sure to get a prophet. Add a stonehenge (nice if not creative and have close neighbours) and you can get a few prophets.

4. I don't think I've ever built a lumbermill or watermill, and I tend to wait on improving hills until machinery in which I can build windmills. Are lumbermills/watermills particularly useful?

Forests add health, you can't work all the squares until much later on in the game, so try to save some (especially in production cities). Lumbermill can add as many hammers as a mine but you also get that extra health. Even in commerce cities I try to leave a total of 4 hills/forests so I can still get some production hammers for market/grocer ect.

Lots of forest on a grassland river area is a great place for a commerce city, you can chop some of the forests for great library for example and then cottage the square when you can work it. Watermills are usually used with windmills, you don't get the high food squares + high production squares of a typical production city but get a good all round food + production place, it needs lots of rivers though so I normally make a commerce city, depends on map if I need a production or commerce city.

Also, I'd like to say how both relieved and disappointed I am that the Cossack has been downgraded to 15 strength. I always play as Catherine, and the Cossack is my ace in the hole midgame. I usually play a defensive game while I beeline to Military Tradition and Gunpowder, taking note of which civs have been pissing me off and which have higher scores than me. As soon as I can build Cossacks, I funnel all production into Cossacks and turn my research down to 0% for a few rounds so I can afford upgrades to Cossacks for any horse archers/knights I have. At this point any other civ is lucky to have even a knight. It's pathetic. I can completely slaughter any civilization of my choice at this point. So, while it will be sad to see this strategy have less usefulness, I always recognized how cheap it was and I'm glad I can't be tempted to use it anymore.

Play a higher level then

Not to mention Catherine is no longer Creative/Financial, my favorite combo. Kind of sucks that no civ is Creative/Financial anymore.

Can't say I used Catherine a lot so I haven't notaced anything personally.

 

[wioneo]

How can you not use watermills? They are the best thing to have on a river in a production city(other than a farm). A grassland river can be 2 hammers, 2 food, and 1 commerce. A self supporting 2 hammer tile is very good, and I think that state property adds another hammer...

No lumbermills? That's just dumb, if they came earlier, my lands would be covered in lumbermills. They are production tiles that actually give health(in pairs)!

 

[illram]

Read through the "condensed tips for beginners" thread and the strategy articles in the war academy, and keep playing the game! You'll learn almost everything you need to know by playing and keeping in mind what every building and unit does (thru the civilopedia) and acting accordingly. I could write a novel just answering your questions.

Generally: the games where you think you're going to lose are the games where you learn the most by perservering and trying something new.

 

[Idiodyssey]

Thanks for the replies! I'll definitely try getting more use out of Lumbermills/Watermills. I think the reason I've never used them before is that I tend to completely develop all my land with cottages/farms (mostly cottages) before I even have the option of building water/lumber mills. At that point I'm hesistant to tear down a village or town to build a mill. I save hills for windmills though, I never build mines unless it's on a metal/stone/marble resource.

Quick question about religions..is it possible to switch state religions at will, and if so, how?

 

[Cam_H]

You should build quarries on Stone and Marble if you want to access the resource.

Determine the role and food requirements of each city before determining whether a Mine or a Windmill may be the right choice.

You can use <F7> to access the religious menu, and select the religion you wish to convert to (there's also the 'praying hands' symbol towards the top-right of the normal game view which brings up the same screen). There are some conditions that may prevent you from converting "at will", for instance; you may be in the Free Religion civic, you may not have the desired religion in any of your empire's cities, or you may be in anarchy.

 

[Sisiutil]

I just got into Civ 4 about two months ago and while I have a pretty solid grip on the game, I have some strategic questions. Keep in mind this is vainlla Civ 4, although I did just buy the expansion but haven't had a chance to install/play it yet.

Welcome to CFC and your new addiction.

1. What's a good maximum number of cities to build? Traditionally, I play as Catherine with Financial and Creative. I go for 8 cities, because I need banks in eight cities to build the Wall Street wonder and build it in my capitol. I tend to emphasize my capitol, using the civic Bureaucracy. Is this a good strat? It's fairly easy for me to win the Space Race/Tech race on Noble every game I play.

It varies depending on what you're trying to do. For most beginners, I recommend not worrying about the number of cities--use your research slider as a guide. The "60% rule" is helpful when you're starting out: expand (either peacefully or through war, take your pick) until research drops to 60% in order to still earn some gold per turn. Then consolidate your economy until you're very comfortably in the black, at which time it's time to expand again.

2. What buildings are essential for every city? I'm familiar with the concept of city specialization, but there are still times where I tend to build lots of the same buildings in every city. For example, in new cities I always build a granary and a barracks. However, I almost always have a problem with unhappiness (which leads to my next issues) due to overcrowdedness, so is the granary bulding, which increases growth, a bad choice? Is the barracks a bad choice for every city? Later on I tend to build courthouses in every city, as well as gold increasing buildings such as grocers and markets since I tend to go for tech races. Is there a core set of buildings that every city should have, and then decide on what other buildings to build based on what that city's specialization is?

Very few buildings are needed in every city. Granaries are the only one I can think of, for the benefits to health and growth (not to mention ). Aside from that, it completely depends upon the city's specialization. Commerce cities get commerce and science multipliers, for example, while production cities will rarely get any of those. It makes little sense to build a library in a city that's producing less than 4 research points per turn; I guess it produces culture, but it seems like a waste of hammers to me. The best way to solve a cultural border problem is at the friendly end of a big pointy stick.

3. Unhappiness is almost always a problem, although I've gotten much better about managing city growth. I think part of the problem is that I never go for early religions, I almost always go for Christianity, and if I miss that, Islam, which means I don't have the added happiness from state religion/temples. Are there particular instances where late religions are better? For my gold/research oriented strategies, I don't rely on religion-related income, espicially since I hardly ever generate a great prophet.

Relying on religion to lift the happiness cap is problematic because it can lead to diplomatic issues. If you adopt a state religion and, as a result, get the wrong AI civ hating you before you're ready to deal with them, it is, literally, game over. Also, to reliably spread the religion you need to build missionaries, which divert hammers from other builds.

For that reason I think a late religion is fine; I usually don't convert to a SR until I feel I'm strong enough to deal with any unsavory consequences. I usually deal with the early happiness cap by whipping, and later, through resources and buildings (especially markets).

4. I don't think I've ever built a lumbermill or watermill, and I tend to wait on improving hills until machinery in which I can build windmills. Are lumbermills/watermills particularly useful?

I don't spam lumbermills, but I'll usually preserve at least 2 forests for the health boost (more if the city needs to overcome additional unhealthiness from flood plains), and lumbermills make the forests I keep productive.

Watermills are awesome in combination with State Property in the late mid-game. My ironworks city is always a city with lots of river tiles so I can spam watermills. It beats the living daylights out of a hill-heavy location any day. My Intermediate Tactics and Gambits article describes how to set up a "riverside ironworks" in detail.

5. When I capture enemy citites, it seems like I don't get any of the cultural/health/happiness benefits from pre-existing buildings in that city, and it's almost as if I have to build tha city from scratch. Is there a certain amount of time until buildings in that city will start enacting their benefits (that differs from the amount of turns the city is in revolt when initially captured)?

When you capture a city all cultural buildings are destroyed. Any surviving buildings work as before as soon as the city comes out of revolt. However, you may still have unhappy citizens in that city and that may affect the city adversely. I like to those unhappy citizens away--especially since the city is often starving and they'll just die anyway--and rebuild some of the buildings that are needed.

Also, I'd like to say how both relieved and disappointed I am that the Cossack has been downgraded to 15 strength. I always play as Catherine, and the Cossack is my ace in the hole midgame. I usually play a defensive game while I beeline to Military Tradition and Gunpowder, taking note of which civs have been pissing me off and which have higher scores than me. As soon as I can build Cossacks, I funnel all production into Cossacks and turn my research down to 0% for a few rounds so I can afford upgrades to Cossacks for any horse archers/knights I have. At this point any other civ is lucky to have even a knight. It's pathetic. I can completely slaughter any civilization of my choice at this point. So, while it will be sad to see this strategy have less usefulness, I always recognized how cheap it was and I'm glad I can't be tempted to use it anymore.

Not to mention Catherine is no longer Creative/Financial, my favorite combo. Kind of sucks that no civ is Creative/Financial anymore.

Yeah, but that gets to be a bit of a crutch after a while, doesn't it? Just like the Cossack bee-line you describe.

I'm currently having a lot of fun playing a game with every leader in turn. Each one requires slightly different tactics and even overall strategies to make the most out of their unique characteristics. The tremendous variation in this game is a big part of its appeal to me.

 

[Idiodyssey]

Sisiutil, I just finished reading through your ALC thread, very entertaining and I'm learning a lot! Now I feel compelled to read through your other ALC threads. Note I would be playing Civ 4/Warlords but I'm home for T-givings without my computer

 

[Preston85]

Sisiutil, I just finished reading through your ALC thread, very entertaining and I'm learning a lot! Now I feel compelled to read through your other ALC threads. Note I would be playing Civ 4/Warlords but I'm home for T-givings without my computer

Exactly what I did. I recommend checking his sig for guides, read them then read the ALC topics (start at 1) and you get some great practical / examples of the strategies and methods descriped in the guides.

Oh and remember to book a week off work cos thats how long it will take to read all of them hehe

 

[JimT]

4. I don't think I've ever built a lumbermill or watermill, and I tend to wait on improving hills until machinery in which I can build windmills. Are lumbermills/watermills particularly useful?

5. When I capture enemy citites, it seems like I don't get any of the cultural/health/happiness benefits from pre-existing buildings in that city, and it's almost as if I have to build tha city from scratch. Is there a certain amount of time until buildings in that city will start enacting their benefits (that differs from the amount of turns the city is in revolt when initially captured)?

4: On Noble you may find Watermills/Lumbermills become useful too late in the game. They are good but I tend to only build them in the captured cities as I don't want to replace riverside villages/towns while most of my forests have been chopped.

5. I don't think anyones mentioned it but a captured city will have a reasonably high population so whip it for quick builds (make sure you use one turn of production on each building before you whip). This will allow you to quickly get rid of unhappiness from overcrowding, war weariness and wanting to rejoin their motherland' although you will get some for your slave driving

 

[miller4242]

Definitely, courthouses in every city

 

[Ray Patterson]

...and I tend to wait on improving hills until machinery in which I can build windmills.

You have to build mines in some cities I think. If you're going for a spaceship victory it may seem irrelevant for a long time, but it does pay off to get some cities with a really good production. And in the end, when you indeed are building that spaceship, a good production is obviously essential then as well, though workshops and watermills are actually better at that then mines. But in early and midgame mines are vital to keep production up. Try and let only your high-production cities build units (especially with Heroic Epic!), and let more commercially minded cities focus on building their own improvements (and not build their own defenders). If you work like that the value of mines and other production improvements become obvious.

But mostly, try other leaders or advance a level! Or both...

 

[Idiodyssey]

Just posting to say I tried out Warlords as Carthage. I really really miss the +2 culture bonus that Creative gives you, and the +1 happiness from charismatic didn't seem to help much. I think I'll try a Financial Imperialistic or Financial Organized next

 

[Sisiutil]

Just posting to say I tried out Warlords as Carthage. I really really miss the +2 culture bonus that Creative gives you, and the +1 happiness from charismatic didn't seem to help much. I think I'll try a Financial Imperialistic or Financial Organized next

That creative bonus is nice but not essential. I'm usually able to build Stonehenge in most games where I'm not using a creative leader, and it has the added benefit of Great Person points. Since Stonehenge essentially results in a free monument in each city, I would assume that Charismatic's +1 happy from monuments would apply to each city until Calendar (which grants its own happiness benefits from resources) if you build the 'henge. If that's the case, Stonehenge and the Charismatic trait have a very nice synergy for lifting the early happiness cap. Same thing later in the game for the Eiffel Tower.

I haven't played as a Charismatic leader yet, but if you're disappointed with the trait, I can't help wondering if you did enough warring to take advantage of its other (and in my opinion primary) benefit, the lowered promotion requirements. With the lowered XPs from barracks in Warlords, that strikes me as a huge benefit. But of course you have to warmonger to really take advantage of it.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

I really really miss the +2 culture bonus that Creative gives you

I used to be the same way when I first starting playing. The +2 culture is nice because you dont have to worry about making a building with culture right off the bat if you dont want to. But I eventually learned it was a crutch to me, and that the +2 culture wasnt as powerful as some of the other traits' abilities. I try to build Stonehenge when Im not Creative like Sisiutil. Its a cheap wonder that will solve your cultural problems early on. It will put a monument in each of your cities, worth +1 culture. And on Noble you should no problems building it.

Try playing some more without Cultural. You'll see that while it is nice, its not as necessary as it might seem, and other traits give you better advantages as the game goes on.

 

[The-Hawk]

How can you not use watermills? They are the best thing to have on a river in a production city(other than a farm). A grassland river can be 2 hammers, 2 food, and 1 commerce. A self supporting 2 hammer tile is very good, and I think that state property adds another hammer...

No lumbermills? That's just dumb, if they came earlier, my lands would be covered in lumbermills. They are production tiles that actually give health(in pairs)!

State Property adds an extra food... which is often unnecessary on a grassland tile. Better to use a workshop with State Property. The extra food offsets the one you normally lose for a workshop.

I rarely use watermills almost never use lumbermills. I don't think I'm dumb .

RE: Watermills.... in a production city, my riverside tiles often are farms. First of all, farms promote rapid population growth. Second, they allow early mines on hills. If a city is so food rich that it doesn't require farms to build mines... then I've probably made it into a GP or commerce city. Only time I've ever built a watermill is in a captured production city later in the game. Or, when I have an odd citizen and can't think of a better way to put him to work. In a commerce or science city, riverside is always a cottage. In a GP factory, always a farm (if anything).

RE: Lumbermills. These come so late in the game. In many games, I never even research replaceable parts. If I do (e.g. Spaceship victory), usually my core cities are long since paved over. I think the value of an early chop outweighs a late lumbermill (unless health is a big issue and I've saved some trees). However, if health is such a big issue that I've saved trees, it means I'm population limited... and those limited citizens are working more useful tiles. Besides, 9 times out of 10, its happiness that is the limiting factor, not health.

I think the only time I build lumbermills is spaceship attempts with a future era start. In that case, I'll save my forests until I am building spaceship parts (they are worth more then). I might put a couple of lumbermills down if I run out of open tiles for workshops (but they eventually get chopped).

So Wonders become useless in conquered cities? Do they eventually start generating their normal benefits again?

They are certainly not useless... you get their normal benefit. So, as an example, capturing the Pyramids allows you to access any Government civic.

2. What buildings are essential for every city? I'm familiar with the concept of city specialization, but there are still times where I tend to build lots of the same buildings in every city.

The short answer is "none". However, some become more essential depending on the victory condition. For example, its pretty inefficient to go for domination without building courthouses. I'd suggest you always challenge yourself if you start relying on "routine" strategies, it is all very situational. There are situations where building barracks when going for conquest is a mistake!

Last comment on this... if you are getting familiar with city specialization, then you are on the right track . It is essential for fast finishes at higher levels of play.

 

[Rathelon]

I put health and happiness buildings in all my cities. Granaries, aqueducts, stadiums, theatres, religious buildings, etc.

In production cities, I dont bother with any commerce or science buildings - likewise in science cities I dont build production buildings. The only exception is forges. If I have the health to afford them, I put them in every city. The science cities really need them to help building their buildings.

I also build barracks in most cities because I often use Nationhood civic (no upkeep, +2 happiness from barracks, can draft 5 units per turn).

For improvements, I've developed a fairly simple strategy:

1. Special resources get appropriate improvement (of course).
2. Plains get farms to make them self-sufficient.
3. Grasslands/flood plains get cottages in science cities, workshops or watermills in production cities.
4. Grassland and desert hills get mines.
5. Plains hills get windmills (makes them self-sufficient).
6. Forests bordering the cities get chopped.
7. Forests within the fat cross, but not touching the city, get lumbermills.
8. Jungles within the fat cross get chopped.

Some situations you have to alter the strategy, depending on the specific terrain. For example, in my last game, I had a (production) city where all 6 tiles east of the city were desert hills (two of them with gold deposits), and there was a river running through the western tiles with grasslands and a couple plains. In this case, I mined all the hills, and farmed all the flatland by the river to get as much food as I could to support all those desert mines.

 

[Ray Patterson]

1. Special resources get appropriate improvement (of course).

Now there's an interesting point. Really? I find that quite a few special improvements aren't that great. Elephant camps for example: meh. After industrialism I usually replace them all. And before I prefer to have only as many as necessary for myself and whatever I can export. And there are more: spice plantation can be nice if you miss food in the city, but if you don't rather build a cottage. And so on. All pastures are extremely good, and the farms and mines as well (except for the uranium mine), but the camps and plantations are rather a mixed bag of improvements if you ask me.