General Turn Discussion

[Viva_Chingon]

First of all, I would suggest Stuyvesant HIP for one turn.

General_W is N of city site 3 right? That should take him, what, 3 turns to make it south of CK? What was the plan with him (G Dub) once he left our borders? If he's going to road the gems (the only thing I can think of that's useful, and not even ATM) then he should have good enough LOS to get him out of there if need be.

We're expanding pretty aggressively and are experiencing a slight shortage of warriors for our operations, IMO. It would be nice to have one more ATM (but we don't). Were we planning on moving Barentz down to guard the settler for city 3? What if there is a land bridge? Just throwing some thoughts out there for discussion...

 

[Krill]

Current plan: W3, Hudson, is forted on the tile that C3 is going to be founded. General_W needs to road the tile SE of the tile he is on to, then irrigate a grassland in the capital. The settler will only be out of our borders for one turn, and it should be gaurded by Hudson.

Barentz is not required for guard duty, and can continue to scout.

The gems won't be in a borders until t65 at the earliest, assuming that we do not get CK as a holy city but do get the Oracle there. Workers Remake20, Viva_Chingon and Worker 5 (the one being built in CK, to be named Kylearean) will be the workers to improve CK and chop for the oracle, and they can also hook up the gems. Workers G_W, AutomatedTeller and Worker 6 (to be built a bit before t60) will be the ones to improve city 3 and hok up the ivory.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Isn't there some Daimyo that should be keeping a running list of the plan for ease of reference? I hate to keep asking what the plan is...it would be nice to have an ongoing turn-by-turn 'projection' of build and unit orders to refer to...plus it would be a good historical record.

 

[Memphus]

yes please, maybe a thred that has X number of turns "simmed" out

Krill you should create this thread and post the turn out to the completion of the Oracle.

 

[Ronnie1]

Heal Stuie....we could run into barb archers I think. I am not positive, but I believe animals disappear after barb troops appear.

 

[Krill]

What exactly is wanted? A thread containing each worker action, and movement, for each phase of our game? As well as slider settings and work force allocations?

 

[Memphus]

yeah a thread one post for the plan. that post then simply gets edited as we make changes.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Beautiful work over in the CDP Thread, Krill...

 

[Krill]

I'm actually suprised I got it down to 15 turns from now. For comparisson Metal Casting would take 31 turns to research if we started now according to F6.

---

Explorers: Barentz...wait and see.
Stuy, S.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

That lion is likely the same lion that we ran from earlier -- spawned before the barb warrior. I don't think an animal that is already spawned disappears until killed.

Krill nails it...Barentz should will likely kill the lion inter-turn and Stuyvesant should move S onto the hill.

By the looks of things we have no workers leaving S of CK for a bit now, right? Who's gonna be watching the Southern approach for barbs? Will there be time to move Houtman to CK if one does show up?

 

[Krill]

No, there isn't time to move Hout back to the city, and if a barb turns up before CK is size three we would have to swap to slavery to get an axe built in time to defend if the warrior entered our borders. However, there is a thread on the front page of the strat forum where someone who went through the SDK found that barbs only enter a civs land when the number of cities on the continent per civ = 2 for certain reasons, and the same applies with # of cities = 3 as well. I'll go find the thread and link to it. We may be all right without a guard there. Personally I would like to keep Stuy at the entrance of the valley, but I thought the rest of the team wanted to scout.

EDIT: Here it is http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299483

 

[Krill]

Naahh!! There can only be one Guru -- and his name is

Spoiler :

Josh ∞∞

Well, here is what I found digging through the 3.17 SDK (finally with a new Debug dll, yeah!):
Barbs enter cultural borders if an appropriate mission is chosen in CvUnitAI::AI_barbAttackMove(). This function is only called for barbarian units with UNITAI_ATTACK (barb animals always have UNITAI_ANIMAL and they cannot enter owned plots anyway). So this represents a direct effect of the difficulty level as non-animal barbs (Warriors and Archers) spawn earlier plus in greater numbers on the higher levels. The indirect effect is indeed given by the conditional behavior of the barb units depending on the total number of non-barb cities on the whole map (not continents! -- the continents(=areas) only determine their number of needed barbs according to their unowned tiles).

There are 2 thresholds:

A) NumCities > 2*NumPlayersAlive:

• Barbs will enter your territory if they can pillage an improvement on their next turn, so the common 1 barb Warriors and Archers will intrude to pillage improvements in your border tiles. I'm not certain about 2 mounted barb units (do barb Chariots spawn regularly?). I know about a random event which places barb Horse Archers on the map, but they demonstrate "special" behavior (they directly target the barbs' TargetCity of the area).
• Barbs will enter your territory if they can attack a city on the same turn --> this should only be possible for the uncommon 2 units.

B) NumCities > 3*NumPlayersAlive:
The restrictions for the missions are lifted to

• pillage on the 3rd turn
• attack city on the second turn
• If the barbs have calculated AREAAI_OFFENSIVE for their AreaAI (huge numbers of ATTACK barb units, most likely after random event; normally it's AREAAI_MASSING) they will straight target their chosen city without any such restrictions.

With GAMEOPTION_RAGING_BARBARIANS it gets even worse (NumCities is irrelevant then):

• pillage on the 4th turn
• attack city on the 3rd turn
• target city when AREAAI_OFFENSIVE

Important things to keep in mind:

• Barbs will ALWAYS enter your borders if they can attack one of your units directly (--> watch your Workers!).
• Once they have entered your territory, they will consider the following options for their current turn

1. pillage an improvement (50%)
2. attack somebody
3. depending on conditions A and B move to another tile to pillage or attack a city (or target a city)
4. patrol --> here they always prefer to move into unowned tiles (this is why they don't enter in the first place; if possible they will move out again; if they somehow get boxed in by cultural borders they might also "have to" enter your territory with this mission)

• Hence they can also change their minds - if they enter to pillage on their 3rd turn, they will choose to attack somebody on their second turn if possible (if you move a defending unit to an adjacent tile).
• There are certainly special situations where barb behavior might contradict the above rules (the code for unit AI is pretty complex...)

1234567890

 

[Memphus]

we just killed a barb. live life on the edge. no risk no reward we will be fine have faith.

(remeber all you nay sayers about city 2 and our warrior being able to defend it?)

 

[Krill]

Now we don't even have a warrior to defend it though!

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I'm thinking we'll be fine too...but then again, I thought I'd be fine against you (Memphus). With that said...

I'm on the fence -- I'd like to scout but I'd rather keep Stuyvesant around for fog busting if we can't reasonably defend CK until after Oracle.

 

[Krill]

If the current CDP plan holds up, we should have an axe in CK produced EoT t55, so Stuy could wander off a little before that. Also, when CK grows to size 3 we can build a 3 turn axe from scratch, so we should be fine then, on turn 52. It's 8 turns of scouting then, really...

 

[Memphus]

we are fine. scout away. we can move our LoS warrior 1 tile S then he can get to CK to defend if that makes it beter?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Remember, we have a 2-move warrior who won't die easily to do scouting, too.

and if we are lucky, he'll get a 3rd promo and will get his woodsman 3, so we'll be well on our way to a super-medic!!

 

[Ronnie1]

The safe route is to fogbust obviously...The city 5 tile would probably be best for that duty.

IF we had to...we could always insert a warrior into the CK que, (yes I know it screws with Krills perfect Oracle plan).

I say scout on ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[Viva_Chingon]

According to the CDP we finish our first axe (out of IS) on T54...10 turns from now. But it seems that we're not at risk of barbs entering our land (and taking cities, anyway) just yet -- unless we have a worker on our border.

Looking at the CDP by itself I cannot tell if this is the case or not...but as long as we aren't inviting barbs in by posting workers on our borders I believe we'll be fine with sending Stuyvesant off and waiting for our first Axeman according to plan.

-----------------------------------

The CDP does not mention what we're doing with Axe1, however...what were the thoughts on that?

ATM it seems like we should move him to CK and then move the Axe popped from CK (RTM T55) to C3 and then advance Hudson S for some more exploring.