General Turn Discussion

there is none....so far all there is krill myself and karhu talking about the wheel if we saw copper and it wasn't on a river.

the other discussion was going AH first if we saw no copper.

BTW althought it is set to wheel right now, no "research" has been done yet. changing to AH wouldn't lose any time.

but we need to know before the next turn.

my vote is: wheel, pottery (so city #2 can build granary, barracks, *axeman and then our defence is taken care of)

but would be very open to wheel, ah, pottery....but then city #2 grows slower.
 
I am pretty sure we will have horses reasonably near by - but we KNOW we have copper pretty near by, in a good site, as well.

Nice thing about Wheel/Pottery/AH is that we get granaries fast, and we can also get our first cottage up faster - we can get through Wheel/Pottery/AH faster than Wheel/AH/Pottery.

That said, the argument about food being king is reasonable.
 
I like Pottery for the granaries...but I have concerns about early cottages. We can work a coast tile for the same return as a riverside cottage and better than non-riverside cottage.

If we intend to move the cap later...do we even want to cottage it now?

My vote is AH>Wheel>Pottery
 
From General Planning thread...

"well right now we are 1 and 1.

so everyone else can officially vote:

wheel

AH

when the turn comes up most popular is what we'll do."

I voted AH...Memphus voted Wheel

I would like to point to this post for some of my justifying arguments for AH, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7561158&postcount=333
 
My argument is that we need copper for weapons -- with or without horses. We already know where the copper is. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

(Hook it up!)
 
We haven't even seen a threatening warrior...let alone the need for an axe...are you always this paranoid Viva? :rolleyes:
 
I vote the wheel and I am also a fan of pottery for granary and cottages. With a financial civ, a riverside cottage is a huge early play.

It is not that huge when you can work an unimproved (no worker turns needed) coastal tile for the same yield.
 
It is not that huge when you can work an unimproved (no worker turns needed) coastal tile for the same yield.

sure it is. because each turn today on a cottage is an investment on tmrw. each :commerce: tmrw is more :gold: :science: or :espionage: ....when building multipliers are there.
 
Civ4ScreenShot0016-2.jpg


so Wheel was the consensus from what i gathered.

the moved NE proved great! Viva your map was great :)
 
I think E.

Ronnie1 - great discussion. That's one of the things I love about Civ IV - there is literally no right choice - everything has consequences.
 
We can make it back to IS from here. W2 is due momentarily and should start heading W to make sure no one sneaks in and to guard the settler while in transit. I think W1, however, should see how the terrain looks further to the E; but obviously not too far. It would be nice to find a hill or two E of W1 and SE of the cows from which to survey this area.

2 Sugar tiles are nice -- is the conventional wisdom to use one city to grab these or two? I.e. there is a wheat tile further south of W1 -- would you build one city to grab 2 Sugars and 1 Cow -or- 2 cities to grab 1 Sugar/1Cow (city a) and 1 Sugar/1 Wheat (city b)?

As it is, I favor 2 cities since there are river tiles all over the place down there -- cottage spam!

T19Hills.jpg
 
keep in mind rivers also = watermills. so if in that dark area is soem hills, we cna have anotehr power house production city with a couple of hills, a whack of wattermills and workshops, and finally superjacked with levee. potentially using the wheat we can have our super irownworks production city :) (wonder builder)
 
(OK, I'm not really sory to do this, even if it is against forum etiquette. The next few posts will be split up into different topics, so I'll probably end up with at least a triple post, it just makes it easier for me to think and explain the differnt reasons I'm about to give).

---

OK, that was a great turn for disucssion. I'm sorry I didn't comment earlier, but I had a busy day and skipped most of the conversation so only really commented on the pics.

I think that W1 should move E next turn onto the hill. The capitals border will expand in a few turns and uncover the majority of the FoW that is uncovered as of yet, leaving only the tiles south and east of the commerce city sign. After that reconsider, but the warrior could head NE and uncover all of the FoW around the cow if desired, or wander off to the wilderness. Personally I favour looking around the cow, but a city on that commerce city sign looks to be an awesome cottage city, so good that I would have to consider moving our capital there, even without looking into the FoW.

As to the worker: DO NOT MOVE HIM ONTO A HILL. I can not state that loudly enough, we need to move him onto another forest immediately afterwards without doing any tile improvemtns to get the settler out on by turn 30 (OK, end of turn 29, if you want to be picky). Ideally we should move the worker 3 (SE) onto the grassland forest, chop, then after the forest has been chopped, we move one worker to one grassland forest, and the other worker to the other river grassland forest (ie, Worker 1 would then move SE, 3, and Worker 2 would move W, 4 onto the other remaining grassland forest).
 
As to the Wheel/AH debate...if we research the wheel next we are able to hook up copper, but due to woker turn issues, is not a factor because we shouldn't get the copper hooked up till around turn 48 anyway IMO, to facilitate the growth of the wheat city to size 4 asap (which should happen, if we go fastest, by turn 52, making a total of 67 hammers over 17 turns, hitting size 4 with 1 food remaining or 69 hammers/0 food spare, if my calculations are correct). The wheel does however, allow us to get the settler to the new city site one turn earlier, so all wonders built in that city we get 1 turn sooner, every settler built from that city is settled 1 turn sooner...pretty big deal.

AH allows us to settle the cow city. I like the cow city. It's easier and safer for us to settle. It allows us to see horses, and the best case scenario for the cow city is that it lets us work horses. However, the copper city is a beast, making 16 hammers at size 4; the best the cow city can do is 12hpt, but that requires us to settle at 233 and not 333. If we setle the cow city as the 2nd city but settle at 333, the highest hpt we can get is 9hpt and 1 cottage (and 3fpt) assuming it has horses; due to the cottage requirement, the city can;t hit it's full potential until we have pottery anyway. It also has a lower food per turn output due to only having a grass cow and not an irrigated wheat, making it take a few turns longer to grow to size 4, and even though it is a closer city site, it only gets settled one turn sooner.

The conclusion I draw from this is: the copper city is awesomely powerful as an early game production city We can throw in a barracks (it's a better early site than the capital as the capital 14hpt+2fpt) to make the military and let the capital make the settlers and workers, with the copper city only making workers when military is not required. The cow city is still a good city, but not quite on the same scale; that said, the fastest we can get the third city up and running is turn 44 but that slows the improvement of the copper cities' hills (it could still hit size 4 by turn 52 with copper hooked, and an irrigated plains tile{irrigated wheat (requried for quick growth) but no other hills improved. Still capable of 11h/3fpt), the settler is built 1 turn after we research AH, and that was with AH researched after pottery. So we should settle the copper city first, and that city has no use of AH, but makes use of the wheel. AH is only good for showing us horses, and we will have AH ready before the second settler is complete even if we do wheel next (not sure on pottery though, but are we going to be making cottages?)
 
I vote wheel over AH right now cause I hate "wasting" :hammers: building warriors. Would much rather build the next generation of troops that can last a long time against barbs. And, like AutomatedTeller, I think barbs are the only threat right now. This map is to big to launch a significant attack on another civ.

Now, I am willing to look at AH before Pottery depending on how fast our 3rd city will be settled. This will take some siming.

Finally, I'm in favor of sending W1 East.
 
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