GeoRealism Graphics Requests

[primem0ver]

Calling Mod Artists!

New Terrains/Features Needed!

I am creating this thread as a place to discuss the need for graphics to be used in the GeoRealism addition to the C2C mod. This will primarily consist of terrain and feature graphics although I wouldn't rule out bonuses. We need to expand the availability of "wet" environment terrains. I will post pictures of environments to give the creators an idea of what each terrain/feature should look like.

Here is a list of what we need (so far... this list and status will be updated as needed).

New Terrains

1. Tropical Rainforest floor: a brown (darker than plains) floor streaked with tiny the green fronds of ferns. 0 food, 0 work, 1 coin. See picture post below for ideas.
2. Northern climate grass: a lighter, grey, slightly yellow green. Probably the same stats as regular grass. See picture post below
3. Mediterranean/Savannah climate grass: These are the kinds of grassy hills one sees on the west coast. Typically brown yellow (tan?) most of the year but turn green during the winter and spring. Make them a tan-yellow with a hint of green (or tiny green fronds here and there). See picture post.

New Features

1. Karst: See this post
2. Tower Karst (land): See the above post.
3. Tower Karst (water): See pose for Karst.
4. A dry grass feature (yellow or tan).
5. A variety of the forest feature: A Mixed forest that mixes both deciduous and coniferous trees (variety 1 and 2 combined into a single variety).

P.S. Thunderbird... you're hired (since you volunteered )

 

[primem0ver]

Example one:

Example two: (larger version here)

Example three:

 

[primem0ver]

Sort of a happy medium color between the ones shown below

Example 1:

Example 2:

Example 3:

Example 4:

 

[Hydromancerx]

@primem0ver

New Terrains
Tropical Rainforest floor: a brown (darker than plains) floor streaked with tiny the green fronds of ferns. 0 food, 0 work, 1 coin. See picture post below for ideas.
Northern climate grass: a lighter, grey, slightly yellow green. Probably the same stats as regular grass. See picture post below
Mediterranean/Savannah climate grass: These are the kinds of grassy hills one sees on the west coast. Typically brown yellow (tan?) most of the year but turn green during the winter and spring. Make them a tan-yellow with a hint of green (or tiny green fronds here and there). See picture post.

What happens if there no jungle on the terrain?

I would say the following could be achieved as ...

Tropical Rainforest = Jungle + Muddy

Norther Climate Grass = Tundra + Tall Grass OR Plains + Tall Grass

Mediterranean/Savannah climate grass = Scrub + Tall Grass OR Rocky + Tall Grass

Not every type of clime has to match the exact soil color.

 

[primem0ver]

Example 1: (yes that is grass in the background!)

Example 2:

Example 3: (When it turns green. Larger picture link)

 

[primem0ver]

@primem0ver
What happens if there no jungle on the terrain?

I would say the following could be achieved as ...

Tropical Rainforest = Jungle + Muddy

Norther Climate Grass = Tundra + Tall Grass OR Plains + Tall Grass

Mediterranean/Savannah climate grass = Scrub + Tall Grass OR Rocky + Tall Grass

Not every type of clime has to match the exact soil color.

I am currently making due with the graphics/terrains we have. Laskarsis is right though. We have far more dry climate terrains than wet climate. The current ones don't always look right and the stats aren't always right. I am having to mix terrains too much to get the overall affect. I will do some mixing anyway to provide variety but it would be nice to have a predominant type.

Here is my reaction to your suggestions:

Tropical Rainforest: Mud is what you would have left... but it would look nicer and quite probably have different stats. The Muddy color doesn't really work...it gives a no-floor, no-plant life impression.

Northern Climate Grass: Plains + tall grass won't work. That is for humid continental plains such as Kansas and Oklahoma. I am not even using plains for this environment. It is currently set for grasslands. Tundra doesn't have grass. It is too cold (which is why it isn't green).

Mediterranean: Scrub looks almost right. But wrong stats and it would be nice to have the right color. Rocky won't work.

I can make what we have work... it would just be nice to have a balance of options between wet and dry.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Here is an example of some combos ...

 

[primem0ver]

It looks like your "Scrub+grass" is actually mud+grass. scrub was a different color as i recall.

Plains + grass visually looks similar to the northern grass. You must have changed the plains color though because this is a more subdued brown than the original. However, this isn't going to work unless we overlay additional features because we need to be able to add forests to that since many northern climates are forested (until we get to tundra). I would much rather work with a terrain since it will work better with the Vegetation system I am adding to the GeoRealism mod.

Also... we need another feature. I didn't realize how green the sword grass was. We need to change it to a yellow or tan (or would that be confused with wheat?). That plains + grass doesn't really look like the mid-west grasslands (none of those pictures do).

Visually Rocky + Jungle or Muddy + Jungle might work for rainforest. It would be nice to have the ferns though and the stats are wrong. Rainforest terrain would be 0 food, 0 work (+1 from jungle), 1 or 2 coin (+1 from jungle).

None of these really look like a Mediterranean climate zone.

EDIT: I don't mean we need to change swordgrass... we need to add another feature that is similar but has a yellow or tan color for "prairie" grass.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am currently making due with the graphics/terrains we have. Laskarsis is right though. We have far more dry climate terrains than wet climate. The current ones don't always look right and the stats aren't always right. I am having to mix terrains too much to get the overall affect. I will do some mixing anyway to provide variety but it would be nice to have a predominant type.

Here is my reaction to your suggestions:

Tropical Rainforest: Mud is what you would have left... but it would look nicer and quite probably have different stats. The Muddy color doesn't really work...it gives a no-floor, no-plant life impression.

Northern Climate Grass: Plains + tall grass won't work. That is for humid continental plains such as Kansas and Oklahoma. I am not even using plains for this environment. It is currently set for grasslands. Tundra doesn't have grass. It is too cold (which is why it isn't green).

Mediterranean: Scrub looks almost right. But wrong stats and it would be nice to have the right color. Rocky won't work.

I can make what we have work... it would just be nice to have a balance of options between wet and dry.

If you did have to make them could you at least pick a shorter name for them? Such as ...

- Duff
- Steppe
- Chaparral

Also scrub was made specifically with Mediterranean biome in mind.

 

[Hydromancerx]

It looks like your "Scrub+grass" is actually mud+grass. scrub was a different color as i recall.

Scrubland

I have also seen rainforests that resemble the muddy terrain.

Plains + grass visually looks similar to the northern grass. However, you must have changed the plains color because this is a more subdued brown than the original.

I am just using whats in C2C.

However, this isn't going to work unless we overlay additional features because we need to be able to add forests to that since many northern climates are forested (until we get to tundra). I would much rather work with a terrain since it will work better with the Vegetation system I am adding to the GeoRealism mod.

Can't you just have some Plains + Grass and then Plains + Forest next to it? You can;t even see though the Forest anyways.

Also... we need another feature. I didn't realize how green the sword grass was. We need to change it to a yellow or tan (or would that be confused with wheat?). That plains + grass doesn't really look like the mid-west grasslands (none of those pictures do).

Depends upon what it is contracted on. On the green terrain the grass looks more yellowish.

Visually Rocky + Jungle or Muddy + Jungle might work for rainforest. It would be nice to have the ferns though and the stats are wrong. Rainforest terrain would be 0 food, 0 work (+1 from jungle), 1 or 2 coin (+1 from jungle).

Again do we really need them to exactly match every type of soil type? I can find you more redish soil types for jungles in Australia, Hawaii and the Amazon. Also why do they near ferns? Won't that just be included in the Jungle terrain feature and not the terrain?

None of these really look like a Mediterranean climate zone.

Depends upon which one. I have seen Australian and Southwest and even South American scrubland look like that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@primem0ver

Spoiler :

Where will your new terrains fit into the terraforming upgrades? It currently goes ...

Ice -> Permafrost -> Tundra -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Salt Flats -> Dunes -> Desert -> Scrub -> Rocky -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Marsh -> Muddy -> Lush

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'll see what I can do in a bit when I have more time to offer and when you and H have hammered out some details.

But keep in mind the limitations we have that were discussed in the other thread. Pretty punishing they are. And my concept of a workaround may not be all that sound.

 

[primem0ver]

If you did have to make them could you at least pick a shorter name for them? Such as ...

- Duff
- Steppe
- Chaparral

Also scrub was made specifically with Mediterranean biome in mind.

From the look (and name) I thought scrub was supposed to be for arid (non-desert) landscapes such as Utah where the ground is covered with shrubbery but still largely dirt and sand. I was going to use it as the primary background for BSk climates (such as Utah, Wyoming, Western Colorado, Idaho, etc...). I will admit though your scrubland photo makes this nearly convincing for this type of environment.

Look, I will make these myself if I have too... Some of them just don't really fit well and we are just talking about some color changes aren't we? I have done it before. I made a swamp terrain in the Genetic Era mod by simply giving the plains terrain or grassy terrain... [I can't remember] a bluer look.

Please don't take this as a knock of what has been done. The work you have done is amazing. The terrains you have made were a large part of what inspired me to do this mod. But there are at least 17 different climates, each with their own types of vegetation and groundcover with at least two variations in each to deal with. Some representations were bound to be lacking even with the terrains that exist. You have nearly twice as many dry climate terrains as wet ones. We need some more wet ones. I just thought I would make some suggestions as to what we needed based on my own ideas and what was said by Laskarsis (which confirmed my own thoughts). This was immediately followed by Thunderbird offering to create such terrains in the following post and more specifically in this post.

 

[primem0ver]

I'll see what I can do in a bit when I have more time to offer and when you and H have hammered out some details.

But keep in mind the limitations we have that were discussed in the other thread. Pretty punishing they are. And my concept of a workaround may not be all that sound.

I am not talking about terrains with height differences here. Just color alterations. See my last post. Shouldn't take much to create them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@primem0ver

DH once posted the files for another mod called the "Terrain mod". It had more types of terrains that than we have now. However at the time I did not think we needed more (I am still unsure).

They had ...

- Alpine
- Broadleaf
- Steepe Dry
- Savanna
- Mediterranean
- Monsoon
- Montane
- Semi-Arid Desert
- Sub-Dry Forest
- Sub-Rainforest
- Taiga
- Tree Savanna
- Xeric

As well as the vanilla civ terrains ...

- Grass
- Plains
- Desert
- Tundra

Here is a link to the Terrain Mod.

Here is an image of the different terrains. (See Attachment)

 

[primem0ver]

@primem0ver

DH once posted the files for another mod called the "Terrain mod". It had more types of terrains that than we have now. However at the time I did not think we needed more (I am still unsure).

They had ...

- Alpine
- Broadleaf
- Steepe Dry
- Savanna
- Mediterranean
- Monsoon
- Montane
- Semi-Arid Desert
- Sub-Dry Forest
- Sub-Rainforest
- Taiga
- Tree Savanna
- Xeric

As well as the vanilla civ terrains ...

- Grass
- Plains
- Desert
- Tundra

Here is a link to the Terrain Mod.

Here is an image of the different terrains. (See Attachment)

Now THAT is cool! Together with the traditional C2C terrains we have plenty to work with! I might modify the rainforest one though to make it a bit more brown. I will also probably end up changing the use of a few from what it was intended for but that's ok. We have all the variety we need with those (and more)!

Now we just need to worry about features. I added a request for yellow-tan swordgrass. There is one more feature I thought of but forgot about. I will post it when I remember and then I believe all we need will be on the table.

A big THANKS!

 

[primem0ver]

This graphic represents my planned terrains that will be included in the GeoRealism mod. Three of these terrains represent forest floors (T Rainforest, Mixed Floor, and Broadleaf). I think I am going to add a terrain timer that begins a turn countdown when a forest is cut down that will cause it to revert to an appropriate terrain for the environment.

ALSO... I remembered that last feature request and I have added it to the list in the first post. I am not sure how possible this is: but Mixed forest. A forest type that mixes the trees from both variety 1 and variety 2. This would actually represent another variety rather than another feature.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am the one who usually adds terrains and terrain features to C2C (XML & Python) just so we don't get to many people adjusting the files. So if you point the ones out you want added I can do it. I am still on "holiday" (which is an interesting concept when your are retired) so will be at my computer this week but away next week.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@primem0ver

Just to be clear I would like to keep the terrains we currently have in C2C which are ...

- Ice
- Permafrost
- Tundra
- Salt Flats
- Dunes
- Desert
- Scrub
- Rocky
- Barren
- Plains
- Grassland
- Lush
- Muddy
- Marsh

I don't think you should have coastal or island since you are never sure where the terrain will be placed. Thus my suggestions are ...

- Tropical Rainforest - Already used for the Lush terrain.
- Temperate Steppe - Made into a new "Steppe" terrain to represent cold plains.
- Arid Desert - Replace the Barren terrain and make the old Barren into "Volcanic" terrain that gives extra food.
- Tundra - Already used as Tundra.
- Polar - Already used as Ice.
- Alpine Tundra - Don't really need because we already have Permafrost.
- Temperate Broadleaf - Make into a new "Duff" terrain.
- Grassland Savanna - Make into a new "Prairie" terrain.
- Mediterranean - Add a new one called "Chaparral".
- Monsoon Forest - Add a new one called "Moor"
- Montane Forest - Already as Grass terrain.
- Semi-Arid Desert - Already uses this for Dune terrain.
- Sub-Tropical Dry - Maybe call it "Ferns" since what if it has no jungle on it?
- Sub-Tropical Rainforest - I agree this should be "Monsoon"
- Taiga - This is already used I think for Tundra. Plus Taiga is just Tundra with Trees.
- Tree Savanna - I agree this should be "Savanna", however the terrain feature Savanna should be renamed to something else.
- Xeric Scrubland - Already uses this for Dune terrain.

So something like this ...

- Ice
- Permafrost
- Tundra

- Salt Flats
- Dunes
- Desert
- Scrub
- Chaparral

- Rocky
- Volcanic
- Barren

- Savanna
- Prairie
- Steppe
- Plains
- Grassland

- Moor
- Lush
- Ferns
- Duff
- Monsoon
- Muddy
- Marsh

This way terrains can also exist not only without terrain freatures such as forest or jungle but can swap out. Such as ...

- Ferns + Pines = Redwood Forest
- Ferns + Jungle = Tropical Rainforest
- Ferns + Bamboo = Asian Cloud Forest

 

[primem0ver]

Just to be clear I would like to keep the terrains we currently have in C2C which are ...

- Ice confirmed
- Permafrost - doesn't look realistic. the permafrost in the Terrains mod is more accurate
- Tundra - is the same or similar so fine. confirmed
- Salt Flats - again, doesn't look realistic at all. I thought these were snow terrains in the middle of a desert... didnt make much sense to me. Salt flats are not perfectly white. They are interspersed with desert sand. Salt flats are basically mud-cracked desert surfaces around nearby lakes that have white splotches.
- Dunes -confirmed
- Desert either texture will do so confirmed
- Scrub - graphic should be replaced with one I marked with scrub in picture in previous post
- Rocky - confirmed
- Barren - confirmed
- Plains - confirmed
- Grassland confirmed (unless you used one of the terrains from the Terrain mod other than the one we have)
- Lush - doesn't really exist in the real world. Lush does not really occur except on volcanic islands (where I am putting the dark brown and green because it is very volcanic soil looking)
- Muddy confirmed
- Marsh confirmed. forgot about this one.

I don't think you should have coastal or island since you are never sure where the terrain will be placed. Thus my suggestions are ...

.

I don't think I have made myself clear about this. The GeoRealism terrain generator will REPLACE all terrains with ones calculated to exist using the air mass movement simulator. The Air mass will start over the ocean and move inland. Terrains will be marked as area specific based on a set of rules defining how wide a "coast" and such are, how far the water is, when we pass over hills and mountains, etc... All terrain areas will be detected and marked as such. Then, based on humidity levels, precipitation totals, temperature, latitude, coast direction, etc... they will be assigned a climate/biome type. This will determine the type of terrain and vegetation that get assigned.

- Tropical Rainforest - are NOT lush Tropical rainforests are the poorest soils in the world. All the nutrients are both locked up in the plants. Any nutrients remaining in the soil is quickly leached away by the constant rains that drain them.
- Temperate Steppe - Made into a new "Steppe" terrain to represent cold plains.
- Arid Desert - Replace the Barren terrain and make the old Barren into "Volcanic" terrain that gives extra food.
- Tundra - Already used as Tundra.
- Polar - Already used as Ice.
- Alpine Tundra - Renamed to BOREAL FLOOR
- Temperate Broadleaf - Make into a new "Duff" terrain.
- Grassland Savanna - Make into a new "Prairie" terrain.
- Mediterranean - Add a new one called "Chaparral".
- Monsoon Forest - Add a new one called "Moor"
- Montane Forest - Already as Grass terrain.
- Semi-Arid Desert - Already uses this for Dune terrain.
- Sub-Tropical Dry - Maybe call it "Ferns" since what if it has no jungle on it?
- Sub-Tropical Rainforest - I agree this should be "Monsoon"
- Taiga - This is already used I think for Tundra. Plus Taiga is just Tundra with Trees.
- Tree Savanna - I agree this should be "Savanna", however the terrain feature Savanna should be renamed to something else.
- Xeric Scrubland - Already uses this for Dune terrain.

Useful information. But if you want to change names its ok by me. I will name it what I name it for now. Just as long as the underlying terrains exist.

You should also note that a "terrain" per se is just being kept to make it backward compatible (and therefore easier to program). A terrain really refers to a soil/soil vegetation type in the Geo Realism mod.