GeoRealism Graphics Requests

[ls612]

ls612 has a point. The way I set it up should cover most things. I am pretty happy with them. Most of what he said seems like just variations on the same type of biome.

The only think might want changed still is making the black terrain "Volcanic" with rich yields and then re-color the Barren terrain.

Things like Northern Grassland or Savanna seem to be already possible. Likewise most of the issue seems to just be aesthetic.

@primem0ver

Can't you just use the terrain we already have?

On a related note, we should probably add some stuff that links in to the Outcrop feature, currently the only effect of that is to increase the defense on that tile by a bit.

 

[Hydromancerx]

On a related note, we should probably add some stuff that links in to the Outcrop feature, currently the only effect of that is to increase the defense on that tile by a bit.

I think there were plans for it to have a Tourist spot improvement or something.

 

[AIAndy]

ls612 has a point. The way I set it up should cover most things. I am pretty happy with them. Most of what he said seems like just variations on the same type of biome.

The only think might want changed still is making the black terrain "Volcanic" with rich yields and then re-color the Barren terrain.

Things like Northern Grassland or Savanna seem to be already possible. Likewise most of the issue seems to just be aesthetic.

@primem0ver

Can't you just use the terrain we already have?

Terrain feels like the easiest way to get some extra looks as unlike features it does not need models, just texture.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

On a related note, we should probably add some stuff that links in to the Outcrop feature, currently the only effect of that is to increase the defense on that tile by a bit.

There is a tourist improvement like the the forest preserve for forests.

 

[ls612]

There is a tourist improvement like the the forest preserve for forests.

OK then the pedia entry for that feature needs changing, currently it says it has nothing linked to it in the strategy text. I can do that this weekend when I add some documentation for Disease and make some existing new concept documentation more robust/up to date.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK then the pedia entry for that feature needs changing, currently it says it has nothing linked to it in the strategy text. I can do that this weekend when I add some documentation for Disease and make some existing new concept documentation more robust/up to date.

It is the Nature Preserve however there is nothing I can see in the pedia about the Forest Preserve and that is a vanallia improvement.

 

[primem0ver]

@primem0ver

Can't you just use the terrain we already have?

As AIAndy suggests, using a variety of graphics as terrains makes things more realistic without having to rely on models and adding extra (multiple) features to the same tile. And using terrains as soil types makes a lot of sense from the coding and simulation perspective. I am developing a pretty elaborate model without having to change the underlying structure of what is in the game (at least for biomes).

I have already done a significant amount of XML coding involving the new terrain types that I plan to add and they are working quite nicely. I will probably release some of this coding next week. I have kept the old terrains as requested (even lush... but I will be changing its use slightly) with one exception. I think the results will be satisfactory for everyone. If not, we can change it. The only terrain I may not use from C2C is barren. Honestly, that is more of an "otherworld" terrain and it never made sense to me when playing. I also will probably not use two or three of the terrains from the terrains mod as I don't like their effect as much as I thought I would.

 

[primem0ver]

I like the tourism idea. I had already been thinking of a way for the GeoRealism engine to identify tourist spots

 

[Thunderbrd]

As AIAndy suggests, using a variety of graphics as terrains makes things more realistic without having to rely on models and adding extra (multiple) features to the same tile. And using terrains as soil types makes a lot of sense from the coding and simulation perspective. I am developing a pretty elaborate model without having to change the underlying structure of what is in the game (at least for biomes).

I have already done a significant amount of XML coding involving the new terrain types that I plan to add and they are working quite nicely. I will probably release some of this coding next week. I have kept the old terrains as requested (even lush... but I will be changing its use slightly) with one exception. I think the results will be satisfactory for everyone. If not, we can change it. The only terrain I may not use from C2C is barren. Honestly, that is more of an "otherworld" terrain and it never made sense to me when playing. I also will probably not use two or three of the terrains from the terrains mod as I don't like their effect as much as I thought I would.

That all sounds pretty alright to me. But we'll have to analyze for promo changes once it goes into effect.

 

[Laskaris]

About the question: "Can't you just use the terrain we already have?" I understand that a change to a major component like terrain is not something that is made lightly or easily. But I like the direction primem0ver is going, and am curious to see what he comes up with.

From what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong), C2C currently uses terrains that were originally taken from a Dune Wars mod. So, understandably, there is an over-abundance of desert terrains: salt flats, dunes, desert, rocky, barren... The terrain palette is well-suited for making Dune-like worlds. But for someone like me who makes Earth maps, it is far from ideal. I don't have use for so many different desert terrains, and at the same time, I am missing some terrains I would need to more accurately represent Earth-like climate zones and biomes.

So, for me, an overhaul would be very welcome.

 

[primem0ver]

@Laskaris

You may be able to make use of my testing of this mod! The ultimate test that I want to use for the accuracy of the climate engine is to use an Earth map and see how well it reproduces the climates on it, putting them where they are supposed to be. The vegetation layout may end up slightly different because there is some randomness involved but the goal is to have it reproduce the locations of the different climate zones as precisely as possible. I will tweak the xml, values, and engine methods until I get a decent replica. If it works, you will only have to make minor modifications/tweaks to the result

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Laskaris just to set the record straight we got the extra Earth terrains from all over not just the "Dune Wars" mod.

Additionally you wont have seen the lunar, Martian and space terrains that are also in the mod yet.

primem0ver one biome which I have not seen mentioned is Temperate Rain Forest.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The only terrain I may not use from C2C is barren. Honestly, that is more of an "otherworld" terrain and it never made sense to me when playing. I also will probably not use two or three of the terrains from the terrains mod as I don't like their effect as much as I thought I would.

Like I said before, could you please chnage the graphic of Barren to the Terrain mod's texture of "Arid Desert". And then use the Barren desert texture as a new biome called "Volcanic"? Thus ...

Barren = 0, 0, 0
Volcanic = 2, 1, 0

This would represent rich volcanic soil and useful volcanic rocks. Should probably be the same as Rocky but with the extra food bonus. Such as defense and can build mines on it.

From what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong), C2C currently uses terrains that were originally taken from a Dune Wars mod. So, understandably, there is an over-abundance of desert terrains: salt flats, dunes, desert, rocky, barren... The terrain palette is well-suited for making Dune-like worlds. But for someone like me who makes Earth maps, it is far from ideal. I don't have use for so many different desert terrains, and at the same time, I am missing some terrains I would need to more accurately represent Earth-like climate zones and biomes.

While many of the graphics were taken from Dune Wars the stats were not.

primem0ver one biome which I have not seen mentioned is Temperate Rain Forest.

Isn't that just Pine Forest + Muddy Terrain?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Isn't that just Pine Forest + Muddy Terrain?

Not in the southern hemisphere it isn't. In Australia it is Eucalypt Forest + Muddy, of course everything here is Eucalypt+ . IIRC Eucalyptus are broad leaf evergreens. Then there is the "island that time forgot" which has forests of trees like the first trees and first flowering plants - no that should be a natural wonder also.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Fine then Deciduous Forest + Muddy. We have different types of Forest types. You could even have Bamboo + Muddy if you wanted. I think it all depends upon where its located on the map.

 

[primem0ver]

[primem0ver one biome which I have not seen mentioned is Temperate Rain Forest.

The temperate rainforest is not considered a biome as it is a feature of several biomes though I would agree it should be were it not for the different types that exist, Temperate rainforests (of slightly different types) are found in Humid Sub-tropical, Humid Continental, and the Biome I am calling "Cool Continental" (an unofficial title I have given the Dfb Koppen Climate).

The problem with these three climate types in the Koppen system is that they are really divided into separate sections, each of which could be considered its own biome (which is why I am subdividing biomes into coastal, inland, highland, rainshadow). East of the Mississippi, the US continent would be one giant forest were it not for civilization. At one point in US history, it was rumored that a monkey could travel from the Atlantic to the Mississippi without ever touching the ground. That would probably still be true were it not for highways, though the path taken would have to weave around our cities.

The biggest cause for the change in vegetation is the Appalachian mountains. They provide a barrier to a lot of moisture but not enough of a barrier to cause a rain shadow (because they are not high enough in elevation). Another reason for the lack of rain shadow is the Gulf of Mexico.

West of the Appalachian's the number of trees lessens noticeably until you get to the Mississippi at which point they quickly disappear as you travel further West. Yet the Humid Continental/Subtropical Biomes reache all the way through most of Kansas, Iowa, and Oklahoma where most trees are found only along rivers and where the groundwater reaches close to the surface (except in the Ozarks... because the higher elevation causes condensation of the remaining moisture).

But while some (including me) might argue these forests should be a separate biome (much like tropical rainforest and the monsoon climates are separated), the Koppen system does not separate them out, partly because they of the subtle differences in between tree species between the three climates that still exist in their western reaches.

Sorry... I guess I tend to be a bit too informative at times

 

[primem0ver]

Like I said before, could you please chnage the graphic of Barren to the Terrain mod's texture of "Arid Desert". And then use the Barren desert texture as a new biome called "Volcanic"? Thus ...

Barren = 0, 0, 0
Volcanic = 2, 1, 0

I am doing something similar to what you ask though I am not sure I will include the "Barren" climate yet. I will be using the "Tropical Rainforest" terrain from the terrains mod as the standard volcanic island terrain because it is perfect. Rich dark green with vegetation and dark with volcanic soil. The barren terrain might suffice for "rocky" parts of the island.

I will be using the "Temperate Steppe" terrain for "Arid" (BSk... because of its slightly vegetated look) and the "Arid Desert" terrain will probably be used in the "Tropical Steppe" (BSh... tropical meaning "hot"... it is still dry) climate.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@primem0ver

I advise you to use all the existing terrains since there are buildings/promotions/units that depend on them. Such as the Nazca Lines wonder depend upon the Barren terrain. Not to mention many of the culture wonders are linked to terrains. And there are terrain promotions ...

Arctic Combat
Ice, Permaforst and Tundra

Desert Combat
Desert, Dunes and Salt Flats

Rugged Combat
Scrub, Barren and Rocky

Wetland Combat
Lush, Muddy and Marsh

Also most animals are linked to terrain types too.

I will be using the "Temperate Steppe" terrain for "Arid" (BSk... because of its slightly vegetated look) and the "Arid Desert" terrain will probably be used in the "Tropical Steppe" (BSh... tropical meaning "hot"... it is still dry) climate.

Is that the same as "Arid Steppe"?

 

[primem0ver]

@primem0ver

I advise you to use all the existing terrains since there are buildings/promotions/units that depend on them. Such as the Nazca Lines wonder depend upon the Barren terrain. Not to mention many of the culture wonders are linked to terrains. And there are terrain promotions ...

Arctic Combat
Ice, Permaforst and Tundra

Desert Combat
Desert, Dunes and Salt Flats

Rugged Combat
Scrub, Barren and Rocky

Wetland Combat
Lush, Muddy and Marsh

No problem (except Barren and Barren still works anyway... it will just be in a different climate zone). All these names will be the same. You will just need to add a few.

EDIT: "Lush" may need to change. Lush is no longer a wetland since wetlands aren't lush in terms of soil. If you want to keep the XML tags the same that is fine. But we will need to change the text displayed at the very least.

Also most animals are linked to terrain types too.

Good. Although it may involve some XML coding changes. I was already planning on including an animal spawning section in the C2C version of the Vegetations file.

Is that the same as "Arid Steppe"?

Depends. I am referring to the names given in the picture. The two names for terrains in the terrains mod are "Temperate Steppe" and "Arid Desert". I am renaming "Temperate Steppe" to "Arid Steppe" and "Arid Desert" to "Tropical Steppe" for the time being. (See the picture you posted earlier in this conversation).