Getting my ass handed to me.

[civ4lyfe]

Well I'm once again having problems when switching over to an older version of Civ. It's actually funny because I started with 5 just this last year and worked my way down to where I'm at now with three. I have to say, Civ 3 complete is pretty much my favorite and it's what I know as the 'true' civ, because long ago when I was 11 I had this game. Playing it brings back great memories and this game just feels more like 'civ' than any of its predecessors.(IMO) I'm 21 now so it's also a good bit of nostalgia for me.

Well having said that, I don't remember this game being so hard, maybe I just really suck, or maybe the makers of this game have really dumbed down the game in it's 2 latest releases.(well atleast with 5)

Anyways, it seems within the first 20 turns or so, within the first handful of factions I meet, one of them demands that I give them a tech. I usually say no because at this point in the game I haven't built any sort of relationships with these factions. Usually my no, ends up with war, and I just can't seem to stave off the agressor. Mind you I'm only playing on chieftan or whatever the 2nd difficulty level is. I'd also like to point out I didn't settle any of my cities near him whatsoever.

For a while I was holding my own, and decided to see If i could get a peace treaty out of Ghandi, the agressor in this case. Well he said yes, but wanted my city which really wasnt even near his borders and he already had 10 cities compared to my 5. so i said ''F" that. He eventually took that city anyways, and then i tried for another peace agreement. He said yes, but again this time he wanted a city that was right next to my capitol. There were cities much closer to his borders than that. It also seemed stupid he went to war with me over not giving him a tech. They're way more agressive than they are in 5, where as in 5 it seems like they're fairly passive.

Well It always seems all the other factions have 10 cities to my 4 or 5. It definitely seems they expand much quicker in this than they do in civ 4bts and a hell of a lot faster than they do in V. I feel quite overwhelmed by their expansion and pretty damn nooby. On top of all this my science adviser is always telling me to increase my science spending, which I just cant seem to figure out and that also seems to be having an adverse effect on my game as well. well any help would be great as i just cant seem to get past the early stages of the game without being severely crippled.

 

[vmxa]

Been too long for me to recall IV, but V is very easy (at least it was last time I played it). If you are playing Warlord on III, it should be very easy.

Demands means that you have little or no offense. I cannot say I ever ran into a demand early or ever at Warlord though. Do build a few warriors to scout the land, maybe three fairly quickly. Get 1 up in any town as soon as you see the AI.

Swords once you have that, no spears. Archers, if no iron or IW and more than 1 AI unit in your land. Do not build new towns far from your current border. Yeah I know you want the lux or whatever 8 tiles away, but it will be yours in good time.

Get workers up so you have a road to all towns and to all tiles that are being worked and you should be golden. Check on my Warlords roadmap in Strategy articles for a few tips. I think it was a very easy game, but I hope I put in some useful concepts.

 

[bigFRANK]

First thing first, welcome back to civ3.

Second your talking about more than the first 20 turns as no AI (on chieftain or warlord level) is going to have 10 cities in 20 turns. There are a number of excellent opening strategy guides already posted so I wont put one of those up but in order to avoid being bullied by the AI you need a credible military to go with your city expansion, in the early stages its often good to build a warrior (to go look about, find other civs and pop goody huts) whilst you wait for your city to grow to three or more population when you can build a settler, don’t forget to make workers too to connect your cities up and hook the iron and horses up.

As to your science slider that’s on your advisers screen (the one that lists your cities) in the top right hand corner), in the early part of the game the two ideas are all or zero.

 

[CommandoBob]

Mind you I'm only playing on chieftan or whatever the 2nd difficulty level is.

This doesn't sound like chieftain or warlord AI behavior but more like sid or demi-god.

Is this the second difficulty from the right or left sides of the screen?

If all else fails, post a save.

 

[Theov]

This can mean anything.
Do you build enough roads, for money? Do you place your cities close enough, to reduce corruption? Do you have enough workers, for improvements? Do you build to many buildings you don't need, like barracks or happy buildings you don't need? Do you not have any firepower - which causes the AI to go at war with you? Do you settle next to rivers, so you don't need aquaducts? Do you build wonders, which take up all your production?
Post a save or screen shot, so others can take a look.
Oh and for the love of mike, don't play any lower than what you are playing now, lower levels will give you bad habits.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Keep reading and keep playing! It just keeps getting better and better!

The Science Slider for me is about the trade-off between turns-to-next-tech and gold-per-turn. Watch those two as you move the slider up and down. Sometimes you'll want more money and sometimes you'll want quicker next tech. There's definitly a sweet spot where you if you do any more % to tech you get major drop in money.

 

[Ataxerxes]

A couple of observations about III.

Unlike IV, the Civ III AI is more, shall we say, rational. It doesn't care about how nice you are, the AI only respects credible military power. If you are weaker than the AI, expect demands and DOW's. It's much harder to use diplomacy to keep out of war (I never have). The AI looks at it's military advisor to see if it can intimidate you. If you get a demand and are weaker than the AI the odds are very good that refusing will get you attacked unlike IV. The AI also respects offensive units (Archers) more than defensive units (Spearmen). At Warlord I would never build a Spearman.

If you have 4-5 cities when the AI has 10 there are serious problems. Unlike IV there is no such thing as too many cities. Cities cost no maintenance and provide unit support. In CivIV, if you had some iceville as your only remaining city site you wouldn't build the city due to maintenance. In III you would build the city for a few research points and more unit support. In the early game you have to expand quickly. You try to find the quickest way to get a lot of cities. For most games you will build few or no Ancient Age wonders. Expansion is that important. You build settler farms to get settlers faster and claim more cities. You can also tolerate more overlap than in IV. After all the land is settled peacefully, it's time to get the land the non-peaceful way. And the AI understands this.

III is more of a military game. Gone are the days of being on an island having a lovefest with Izzy and Gandhi all sharing one religion and loving each other.

Final note: tech trades are easy in this game. Nobody won't trade a tech because of WFYBTA limits, monopoly techs or other such garbage. AI has more self-interest in thsis game. If you are larger, however, resource trades get harder. Mid-way through most of my games the AI wants an arm and a leg for a luxury because it knows I get more out of the luxury through markets and more cities than it does. Very practical AI in this game. Most of my later wars are decided by who has what resource they won't give me.

 

[civ4lyfe]

This can mean anything.
Do you build enough roads, for money? Do you place your cities close enough, to reduce corruption? Do you have enough workers, for improvements? Do you build to many buildings you don't need, like barracks or happy buildings you don't need? Do you not have any firepower - which causes the AI to go at war with you? Do you settle next to rivers, so you don't need aquaducts? Do you build wonders, which take up all your production?
Post a save or screen shot, so others can take a look.
Oh and for the love of mike, don't play any lower than what you are playing now, lower levels will give you bad habits.

Well i read some guides and took peoples advice. As far as I know when i first posted I wasn't building enough workers or making enough improvements. I was also focusing more on wonders and buildings and not so much on settling or expanding, which I have changed. I guess i just wasnt used to the AI agressiveness in CIV III. I also have much stronger military in my current game and I also believe I have one of the strongest militarys in game, besides maybe MAO. But you know those Chinese always havin the biggest and the best... Also I would post screenies but I'm not too sure on how to do it. I have windows 7 btw.

A couple of observations about III.

Unlike IV, the Civ III AI is more, shall we say, rational. It doesn't care about how nice you are, the AI only respects credible military power. If you are weaker than the AI, expect demands and DOW's. It's much harder to use diplomacy to keep out of war (I never have). The AI looks at it's military advisor to see if it can intimidate you. If you get a demand and are weaker than the AI the odds are very good that refusing will get you attacked unlike IV. The AI also respects offensive units (Archers) more than defensive units (Spearmen). At Warlord I would never build a Spearman. I took this into account reading a guide and haven't done since.

If you have 4-5 cities when the AI has 10 there are serious problems. Unlike IV there is no such thing as too many cities. Cities cost no maintenance and provide unit support. In CivIV, if you had some iceville as your only remaining city site you wouldn't build the city due to maintenance. In III you would build the city for a few research points and more unit support. In the early game you have to expand quickly. You try to find the quickest way to get a lot of cities. For most games you will build few or no Ancient Age wonders. Expansion is that important. You build settler farms to get settlers faster and claim more cities. You can also tolerate more overlap than in IV. After all the land is settled peacefully, it's time to get the land the non-peaceful way. And the AI understands this.
Yea, my first few games I was goin for ancient wonders, now I know the error of my ways.

III is more of a military game. Gone are the days of being on an island having a lovefest with Izzy and Gandhi all sharing one religion and loving each other.

Final note: tech trades are easy in this game. Nobody won't trade a tech because of WFYBTA limits, monopoly techs or other such garbage. AI has more self-interest in thsis game. If you are larger, however, resource trades get harder. Mid-way through most of my games the AI wants an arm and a leg for a luxury because it knows I get more out of the luxury through markets and more cities than it does. Very practical AI in this game. Most of my later wars are decided by who has what resource they won't give me.

Yea, I feeel like the AI has a lot more 'cojones' in this game too, compared to IV.

 

[civ4lyfe]

sorry, not meanin to double post but just saw this guys post.

Keep reading and keep playing! It just keeps getting better and better!

The Science Slider for me is about the trade-off between turns-to-next-tech and gold-per-turn. Watch those two as you move the slider up and down. Sometimes you'll want more money and sometimes you'll want quicker next tech. There's definitly a sweet spot where you if you do any more % to tech you get major drop in money.

I'm not too sure on where this science slider is located.

 

[Ataxerxes]

I'm not too sure on where this science slider is located.

It's located in the domestic advisor, the top advisor. The top slider is for research, the bottom is for happiness.

It's important to play with it. Unlike CivIV, there's no carryover of exces, so the excess research is lost. What I do is that on the turn before a tech is researched, I turn the slider down as far as I can and still have the research take one turn. This can often get you a good amount of gold.

 

[civ4lyfe]

thank you. Another query of mine is that in about 100 or so turns, maybe more im at like 1100a.d. so im not sure but it seems alot of my cities are stuck at 6 population and it says growth until next turn is 9999 turns, but i have plenty of food and the people aren't 'starving' or unhappy. What could the problem be?

 

[Theov]

thank you. Another query of mine is that in about 100 or so turns, maybe more im at like 1100a.d. so im not sure but it seems alot of my cities are stuck at 6 population and it says growth until next turn is 9999 turns, but i have plenty of food and the people aren't 'starving' or unhappy. What could the problem be?

Lack of fresh water.
Your city needs to be next to a river or a fresh water lake to grow beyond 6. If the city doesn't it needs an aqueduct to grow past 6. You can see fresh water from rivers and fresh water lakes as free aqueducts. (is aqueduct spelled with an e in the middle?!!?!! Never new that. Doesn't make sense either.)
If you want to know if your city is on fresh water, check the city and see if you can build an aqueduct, if you can, you're not on fresh water and need it to make the city grow past 6.
It's kinda tricky to figure out if a tile is on fresh water when you're founding a city though. But it is worth to find out since you can build other toys with the shields.
Post a save.

 

[Desertsnow]

On the first issue, the AI is not normally so aggressive at lower levels unless you are very weak.

Build up a good road system for one thing, and for another thing build up your military strength. The AI assesses your strength in terms of attacking power, so build mostly offensive units--build a couple defenders and then build attackers. Another reason for building offensive units is to attack their attackers as they come in.

Also, you need more cities. Set up one of your early cities with a good food supply as a settler farm. If one of your early cities has a good food supply, build a granary, irrigate food-bonus tiles (wheat or cattle) and crank out settlers. If you set it up right you can get a settler every four turns from such a city, who go on to found more cities, where you can build up military strength and possibly a few more settlers to found yet more cities. You'll also need workers to work the land, but if you get everything right, you'll be expanding right into the AI's face and have be able to defend yourself.

Also, yes, as Theov said, build an aqueduct if your city reaches size 6 and doesn't have access to fresh water.

Another thing: if the AI is attacking cities far from its main territory or deep inside yours (or asking for them in peace negotiations), those cities have access to resources (possibly not yet revealed) that the AI wants or needs--defend these cities as these resources will be useful to you.

The bottom line is lots of cities, just enough defense and a lot of offense, lots of roads (plus mines and irrigation), well developed cities, and enough military power to intimidate the AI.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Desert Snow made me think of another difference. In IV Open Borders are nice. They give trade, diplo points (diplo rules in IV) and enemy units are kicked out upon declaration of war.

In III Right of Passage is very dangerous. Diplo doesn't matter as much (I've been attacked by Gracious AI's) and there are no trade routes providing commerce. However, the AI will use the RoP to get units right up against a city some distance from the border, DOW and take the city. You can't keep a strong defensive force in every city. And if you're in Republic and have core cities without military . . .The AI looks at that like an alcoholic looks at free wine. It's like a narcotic to the AI. You will never be trusted again if you do that but the other AI's will overlook it if one of them does it to you.

Edit: By the way, I've had the AI take an undefended city with an ROP on Chieftain. With 4x the AI's power.

 

[TheOverseer714]

You can create internal borders during a ROP with units, if the AI is blocked, it will have to declare to unblock.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . .If all else fails, post a save.

Post a save. That's the only way for us to really see what's going on.

 

[Ataxerxes]

You can create internal borders during a ROP with units, if the AI is blocked, it will have to declare to unblock.

True. But if I have that many units to spare I've been disgustingly peaceful.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Slaves, artillery, any unit will do. Use chokepoints to shorten the line. Box intruders in to guide them out.

 

[jtb1127]

I agree with the op and I am in the same situation as you. I recently started playing civ III again and I find it is the most addicting game there is. For the first time in a while I do not want to turn the game off. When I hit quit I feel bad to say "Yes, Immediately!" because its a lie. I need to go to bed sometime before 3 am more often. But I have also seen the game is a lot harder. In the first file I played I went as Russia (unaware that they are so awful) quickly invaded a neighbor (Monte) and then got my ass handed to me when my invasion force was killed and a few jaguars were parked outside Moscow. I didn't stick around for the last turn when Moscow would be burned to the ground my vicious Aztec Jaguars. Now I am going as Japan and having doing a lot better as I have grasped a little bit more of the strategy. I'm only on chieftain difficulty.

 

[vmxa]

Nothing wrong with Russia, but their UU is middle age. You just have to take advantage of the expansion trait at low levels. They are exp and sci right? Anytime you have a civ with an early 2 move UU near you, you have to prepare for it. JW are cheap and can be a pain so early in the game.