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getting over the reroll + general tips

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by newbie2, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. newbie2

    newbie2 Chieftain

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    I haven't played Civ VI (or any other 4X) in a while/ a few months, this weekend was my first game with the arctic summer update. I need to get used to some changes (some questions later about that), but my main issue is that I fell back into an old habbit of regulary reloading a start where I wasnt happy with how things looked. Not necessarily at turn 1, but also like a few turns later, when I would find there is like little settle area, or the AI ****s me n some way early on etc..

    It's not that I don't want a challenge. I loved doing an ironman legendary run inxcom 2.
    It's mainly that constantly playing catchup isnt my idea of fun. Thats why I only play on Emperor. Playing higher just limits your options: You have to go to war (which isn't interesting I find in civ because the AI sucks at it and the combat is boring), you can't have a religion, you have to use as much exploits/tricks as possible...

    Offcours when you then don't reroll, you feel like a POS because you think "i'm only doing good because I had a lucky start". So my question is twofold:

    -How do you stop yourself from rerolling (yes Ive said to myself many times "im not gonna restart" and I end up doing it anyway)

    -Secondly, how do you manage a bad start? Im talking like flat dessert with a civ that isnt suited for it. Little expansion room. Low production yields... Or all those things combined

    To add to the last part, what tends to be the "meta" for the first 20 turns these days? I knew of the selling luxuries to the AI for a flat 120-140 gold, but that doesnt seem to work anymore. I tend to wait with most of my settlers untill my ancestrall hall is ready, which is probably I a habbit I should kick...


    any advice is greatly appreciated
     
    Zakkage likes this.
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I mostly play emperor, always have. It is the most popular. I do not want to be an iron man, they wear budgie smugglers.
    Why? The idea has always been push culture which in turn gives early ancestral. It’s a question of what turn you are considering it.
     
  3. dcp

    dcp Chieftain

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    highlighted priority for potential eureka

    selective perception at best (or to be more precise: worst):
    Religion: Saladin, Kupe and chop guarantee religion
    War: not necessarily, esp. Canada
    pro strats: not necessarily, personally i hate (and so i dont) chop (it just feels wrong), but chopping is neither a trick nor an exploit. beelining techs or advanced strategics (like flanking a pincer attack for enemy capital, when all his forces have been moved to the initial front) is not a trick. an exploit would be the AI resource reselling bug.


    a psychological issue. above prince the AI has more optimal start conditions. iam sry for ur inferiority complex, but this is also selective perception. ofc the AI is the AI and not comparable to a human brain, right? so the AI receives better starting conditions (like 3settlers + prod. etc boosts) to compensate.

    y would i restrain myself from fun by playing a disliked map? its like eating a bad dish.
    if there is potential use the force /reroll.

    worker, chopchopchop for Scout, monument (PP) then settler or military (warriors, slingers), Gorgo (no monument, wildcard slot) for ez mode.

    have fun!
     
  4. Hammurabbit

    Hammurabbit Chieftain

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    Stopping re-rolling: I would recommend looking at each game as an experience rather than something you need to win, and need to win in an optimal way. "Wow, I'm Inca, but there are only a few mountains around. This will be an unusual game!", "Holy ****, neighbours in every direction, no way to expand, this will be something different.", etc. On higher difficulties it seems like there is no way to avoid catchup anyway. Even if you realize at some point that game is lost and choose to restart you may have encountered a few new situations and tried out some new strategies.

    Managing bad start: I think greatest threat is to be invaded early by more advanced units coming at you at a great number. So I usually try to prioritize military tech (archery, iron working) early, as AI usually gets that a little later even if they have much higher science production than you. By being smart with terrain you can hold off a quite sizeable army with a smaller one as long as you have competitive units. Use whatever means that are available: City states (suzerain bonus or conquer), eurekas, free roaming settlers, alliances, lucxury trade etc.
     
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  5. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Chieftain

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    Why force yourself to stop rerolling? Playing a game against your preferences seems contrary to the very idea of gaming as an ejoyable activity. I sometimes try to play a game even if the starting location is not up to my standards, but I almost always end up abandoning it later anyway for lack of enjoyment. My wife on the other hand will play any game, almost regardless of what the initial location looks like. I enjoy one thing, she enjoys another. It's not like one of us is right or wrong.
     
  6. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    This, mostly

    I hope it's not because some nobody on the net decided your game was invalid because you rerolled, reloaded, or weren't playing on a high enough difficulty while balancing an apple on your head, since unless they actually work on the game, their opinion doesn't mean anything. Especially not when compared against your own time.
     
  7. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    My question would be, why do you think rerolling is a bad thing? Take some time to try to dig through layers of reasons. Did someone tell you it was bad? Why? Do you think it makes you a better person in some way to play out the first start? How does that work? Are you putting unnecessary expectations on yourself? Why? What do you want out playing Civ, anyway? Observe yourself as you play and as you contemplate rerolling.

    Perhaps you will come to be comfortable with your current habits and not be so hard on yourself. Or perhaps you will see good motivations behind your desire to not reroll and lean in to those goals in playing out your first roll. Only you can really know. And good luck!
     
    newbie2 and Chefofrats like this.
  8. Icicle

    Icicle Chieftain

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    Honestly my favorite games are the ones where I come back from a bad start, since a bad start is the only time this game can really go bad. Once you get that feeling a few times, I think the desire to reroll goes away completely. Then again I was never really a re-roller to begin with, so ymmv.
     
  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Re-rolling isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if I'm going to invest hours into a game, I at least want it to be fun. Playing an Inca game without mountains, or an Aztec game where I'm isolated don't appeal to me too much, so I got nothing wrong with trying again.

    Of course, it's easy to get into a bad habit, and suddenly realize that you've spend 2 hours and haven't played more than 20 turns on any save. So yeah, sometimes it's better to just struggle through a tougher start and see what you can do with it.

    Some things I've found in those cases - be extra careful about planning, and decide when to strike. Honestly, if you're in a terrible spot, the best way out of that is to take over a neighbour. So based on the layout and the land, try to think of the time that you can best make a dent. Does that mean just spamming archers and trying to outgun them early? Or gear up for a Knight rush? You do have to be careful - too often I think "oh, let me try to swordsman rush" and suddenly realize they just got knights and walls, and now I don't have any hope. Or if you really don't think you have a chance at that early, then make sure you have enough defense ready in case if they declare on you, but maybe plan to slingshot ahead later with something. If you can get that well-timed golden age, for example, that can be an ideal time to either faith-buy settlers/builders everywhere and double or triple the size of your empire. Or if you have lots of CH/Harbors, you use it to double your science rate to jump ahead. Or if not a golden age, then when you get T2 governments and can faith-buy a larger army, maybe that's your opening.

    But basically, if you don't like playing catch-up, then playing a bad start might not be your idea of fun, so don't play them. Try it out. Go 50 turns, and if you are in a terrible spot, nobody's going to fault you from saying, "well, I think this game is lost". It's your game, play it your own way.
     
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  10. newbie2

    newbie2 Chieftain

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    Thanks for the advice all. I opened this thread before I knew about the June update, so I guess the part about starting tips will become somewhat irrelevant now. Althouhg it would be interesting if I can find some of these bad/ low production start tips

    I've come to an age where I don't care how people tell me how to play my singleplayer games. I play the new Anno with easy AI's because Anno for me is a chill citybuilder. I play AC oddyssey. on normal because otherwise stealth becomes very tricky (no one shot assassinations).

    So yeah its mainly for myself that I want to kick this habit. A) because it will make me a better player (with the idea of playing some MP someday and not getting my behind handed to me), and you dont really improve by easy games B) because I think it will bring me more enjoyment/fullfillment (no more "I won because of a lucky start" self torturing, but rather "I persevered and actually did it, despite the odds") and C), as UWHabs said. playing 2-3 hours and then realising you didnt really play, you just hit restart a lot. Which isn't really good use of your time. A I'm also getting to an age where video games time becomes shorter and shorter :)
     
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  11. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Warlord

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    Honestly, except when a new expansion/patch comes, my civ habits basically end up "reroll for like 3 hours until I get an insanely good start position while watching TV, then play until about the late renaissance era, then get bored becuase the thing I like most is placing cities + exploring and that's finished by that point... then restart the process"
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Rerolling because you are all grass is perfectly understandable. If you are on a level you are comfortable playing then it can be a fun challenge but on a level you are pushing yourself it is not nice and you are investing many hours of time so just reroll.

    I 100% agree you need to kick the habit of restoring after a bad combat unless you are wanting to try a scenario where you want to find a relic in a goody hut, then restore until you get one, it is your game. Restoring for smaller reasons interrupts the games flow and in a way causes more frustration than not.

    A bad situation is typically followed by a good situation, the more RNG the more average things become (unless that RNG is game changing like a hurricane) so roll with the good time and the bad to me feels better than restoring to have just good time which no longer feel good, just expected.
     
  13. SxSnts9

    SxSnts9 Chieftain

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    The #1 goal with any game should be fun. I personally think rerolling is a crutch for newer players and you should try to get rid of it asap, but if it leads to a higher amount of fun for you, who cares? Plus, once you beat the game enough times you'll relish the odd or crappy starts as a challenge.
     
  14. pkaem

    pkaem Chieftain

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    I reroll starts some times. If you really get a location with no production there is just not much opportunity for a fun game. But things get better fast, often. So I almost always give the map a chance of 25 or 30 turns. Some I strait up lose, most often playing to greedy with a bad start. When I'm pushed against a wall of tundra and go scout/scout/settler to put my 2nd city at Montys door for example. He will kill it and I can't do much about it. If you grab an okay start and don't fall to early personal blunders, you'd likely win. Here ia the main problem for me. At turn 130 all set up and on the road to victory, I skip the rest and start a new one.
     
  15. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    I use to reroll all the time whenever something bad happened early in the game. I'd lose my starting warrior in the first x turns, an AI would take one of my cities, etc. At one point, out of shear concentrated power of will, I just decided not to reroll and power through those challenges. Eventually I realized that those early losses weren't that big of a deal and overcoming those setbacks can be ultimately be a more fulfilling experience.

    I still reroll from time to time if I can't achieve what I want out of that game. The first time I played Brazil I really wanted to use their rainforest bonus since that is what makes them unique. Of course I started in the tundra on my first 6 games. I ended up sticking with the 7th game as I was finally out of the tundra, but no rainforest until I settled my 3rd city.
     
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  16. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Also keep in mind, people don't always just reroll for a crappy start. Plenty of times I've started a game and the early going just ends up being too crazy good that I don't want to continue. Like, I've had starts where I'm like 2 tiles from Roraima, and have a well defended area to settle 5 or 6 cities. I'm not rerolling as a crutch, but sometimes it's nice to actually have a challenge :)
     
  17. SxSnts9

    SxSnts9 Chieftain

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    That's fair, but I'm pretty sure when people discuss re-rolling that they mean re-starting due to a difficult or non-optimal start 99% of the time.
     
  18. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    Don't take it the wrong way but the picture in my mind is one of an hamster running on a cagey wheel :)
     
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  19. Mahi

    Mahi Chieftain

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    Best way to avoid re-roll is... just don't do it. I never do a re-roll but I don't win all my games either, which is how the game should be played. Winning each game gets boring really fast. It's more finishing a losing game that's the problem for me.
     
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  20. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Chieftain

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    Which is how the game should be played according to your preferences - it is not some divine revelation. Enjoying a loss is as alien a concept to me as not enjoying one is to you. Please do not force your subjective opinion as a universal standard on everybody.
     
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