[R&F] Getting Rolled on Deity

[MarigoldRan]

If you consider Nubia too OP, then Gorgo. At least you get stuff by killing all those warriors.

Also, change sea level to low so there's more space for everyone.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I don't like replaying but decided to on this one.
If you make the perfect moves you can steal 2 settlers and wreck havoc on Jaya.

Spoiler Second Try Turn 72 :

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I don't like replaying but decided to on this one.
If you make the perfect moves you can steal 2 settlers and wreck havoc on Jaya.

Spoiler Second Try Turn 72 :

View attachment 514237

You should try larger maps. I'm having allot of fun rolling this ludicrous sized map @ standard speed. I've done it on marathon, and didn't think it could be done @ standard without the new expansion (ie. GDR's); However, it looks like it can. I was thinking of posting a ludicrous map size/standard speed deity domination victory challenge to the board. What do you think?

Spoiler :

 

[MarigoldRan]

Ludicrous starts lagging. Try huge instead, low sea level, Pangea.

You're less likely to get crapped on early game by AI.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

The way I understand it is that the larger the map the more difficult it is on the AI.
Perhaps that isn't true for Civ VI.
Gonna be difficult for me to play anything other than the usual Deity/Stand/Stand/Pangaea.
However, I don't mind downloading a shared game for some fun.
The one thing I like to do to make the game even more difficult is to choose the AI vs my weaker Civ.
I seen Victoria talk about this before comparing the difference between a bottom tier Civ vs different AI.
This will completely change the game and if you mix in a bad start with bad land it gets more difficult.

Altering the settings or changing Civs isn't the solution for me.
I just have to face the fact that on the settings that I play that if one doesn't make perfect moves they can get rolled.
I think it is becoming more clear on Deity/Pang/Stand/Stand that not all starts are winnable playing blind and with no reloads.
I have rolled my share of horrendous starts where I am basically in the middle of desert and Tundra with nothing close for expansion.
Very difficult land for the Capital.
This just happens from time to time.
If I change the settings it will just dilute the game and the game will be less challenging.
It appears the main challenge is surviving the Early Game.
Once you do that it is very difficult to lose.
Whereas in previous versions of Civ you actually could be in danger of losing before turn 300.
Some games around turn 250.

Don't mind me... I am just grumbling about how lopsided the game is compared to other versions.
To each his own... I just like sharing the times that the game gets out of control on the losing end.
We all know that playing better Civs make the game too easy.
We all know that if you alter the settings to have more space the game is easy as well.
After that you can start implementing rules or trying to win in fewer turns to make it more competitive.

 

[MarigoldRan]

One possibility: instead of playing Civ 6 for purely competitive purposes, which is meaningless, make it a challenge so that you have to Role Play your civ.

So for example, if you're Spain you HAVE to go for religious victories and attack heathens with your Conqs. If you're Nubia you can't settle or conquer a city without access to a desert tile. If you're Aztecs, well, you just try to kill everyone (same as normal), except that EVERY builder must eventually be sacrificed and you're not allowed to build builders of your own. The Dutch can't build cities except on rivers and within 3 tiles of a coast. As Germany, you have to declare war on every city-state that you meet. As Khmer every city must have an aqueduct and a Holy Site. As England, you're only allowed to have 3 cities on your home continent and you must declare war on Scotland the moment you meet them. For Scots, you can only build cities on hills, you're not allowed any archery units (as archers are considered unmanly), and must declare war on England. Etc.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

The way I understand it is that the larger the map the more difficult it is on the AI.
Perhaps that isn't true for Civ VI.
Gonna be difficult for me to play anything other than the usual Deity/Stand/Stand/Pangaea.
However, I don't mind downloading a shared game for some fun.
The one thing I like to do to make the game even more difficult is to choose the AI vs my weaker Civ.
I seen Victoria talk about this before comparing the difference between a bottom tier Civ vs different AI.
This will completely change the game and if you mix in a bad start with bad land it gets more difficult.

Altering the settings or changing Civs isn't the solution for me.
I just have to face the fact that on the settings that I play that if one doesn't make perfect moves they can get rolled.
I think it is becoming more clear on Deity/Pang/Stand/Stand that not all starts are winnable playing blind and with no reloads.
I have rolled my share of horrendous starts where I am basically in the middle of desert and Tundra with nothing close for expansion.
Very difficult land for the Capital.
This just happens from time to time.
If I change the settings it will just dilute the game and the game will be less challenging.
It appears the main challenge is surviving the Early Game.
Once you do that it is very difficult to lose.
Whereas in previous versions of Civ you actually could be in danger of losing before turn 300.
Some games around turn 250.

Don't mind me... I am just grumbling about how lopsided the game is compared to other versions.
To each his own... I just like sharing the times that the game gets out of control on the losing end.
We all know that playing better Civs make the game too easy.
We all know that if you alter the settings to have more space the game is easy as well.
After that you can start implementing rules or trying to win in fewer turns to make it more competitive.

It's too bad you don't have the processor for large maps, as there is often a "bogey man" civ that's steamrolled a few other AI's off on the other end of the 200x100 board that keeps things interesting. I was thinking that at standard speed/deity knocking the AI's out before they won a science victory might not be feasible. Then again, as you say, I chose Macedon. I'd bet it'd be considerably more challenging with even a mid tier civ. I'd also bet that using a mid tier (or lower) civ on the ludicrous map (200x100) wouldn't be the "auto-win" that is such a common theme in these threads.

Spoiler :

I will keep you updated as I play weaker and weaker civs…

Edit update: Closing in on the ludicrous map size/standard speed deity win...

Spoiler :

Edit update2: Just closed this game out with a T197 domination victory: Macedon, ludicrous map size, standard speed. Before a few moments ago I didn't think that was possible.

Spoiler :

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Ludicrous starts lagging. Try huge instead, low sea level, Pangea.

You're less likely to get crapped on early game by AI.

Not sure why this is happening, but my game was seriously lagging. Then I took a break and restarted from the save. Just like smaller maps. Maybe just a little bit slower, but it's really really fast for a game with all these trade routes (present count 78). Edit: I think if you restart it resets whatever loopy issue it's trying to endlessly work through.

Spoiler :

 

[Victoria]

Are all games winnable no matter the start?

Nope... and as a pretty much pure continent player I would say it does not matter if Monty is on a continent or a Pangea, if he wants you early with 5 warriors you are toast. I do not always build warrior first but when I do not I sometimes get whipped for it, Deity is about survive then grow and this does slow up your game a bit.
next time you have a death like that post the start save if you have it.... people here love the challenge of a deadly start.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

I think it is becoming more clear on Deity/Pang/Stand/Stand that not all starts are winnable playing blind and with no reloads.

This only proves the start is lose-able for some people.

An unwinnable start is a 4000BC save that cannot be won by anyone.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

This only proves the start is lose-able for some people.

An unwinnable start is a 4000BC save that cannot be won by anyone.

With or Without prior knowledge?
You did not answer the question.
Does an unwinnable start at 4000BC exist or are all games a win from turn 1 no matter what?
No Prior Knowledge. Playing Blind.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

With or Without prior knowledge?
You did not answer the question.
Does an unwinnable start at 4000BC exist or are all games a win from turn 1 no matter what?
No Prior Knowledge. Playing Blind.

In Civ6 all games are win no matter what (other than obviously bugged maps) That's why no one can post an unwinnable save.

For comparison, CIV Warlords had unwinnable starts. One of them is still attached to the first Warlords Deity GotM.

 

[TheDouche]

I think there are unwinnable starts for everyone.

Umm, when you posted one I played to t100 and someone else won a deity cv peacefully by T150.

How do you do that? Is it like a perfect scenario where the stars align? Natural wonder start, harvest, 4 culture CS and kilwa?

 

[Victoria]

How do you do that? Is it like a perfect scenario where the stars align? Natural wonder start, harvest, 4 culture CS and kilwa?

Nope but @DanQuayle is an excellent player and things help but it is a lot about chop and timing as well as a lucky map.
Choose a map you want to play CV and then post it asking how well people can do... then when you play it yourself ask people how they did better.... or play it a few times, that is the best learning path.... also playing GOTM helps a lot.
Concentrate all your efforts on the CV, do not get frivolous with your builds.
It is not about getting a T150, it’s getting under 200 that should be possible on most maps... most.

 

[TheDouche]

Concentrate all your efforts on the CV, do not get frivolous with your builds.
It is not about getting a T150, it’s getting under 200 that should be possible on most maps... most.

Look, I'm getting around 200-220 most of the time. I tend to like playing peacefully, my last game I got 7 cities only, no place for natural parks, and a trajan nuts on culture, and I still snatched a 220 win.

Are people just warring early, to get the snowball going? I doubt 150-180 is a normality for peaceful games.

 

[Victoria]

Are people just warring early, to get the snowball going? I doubt 150-180 is a normality for peaceful games

Warring for a faster victory, yes but it is not about number of cities like an SV but speed of tourism.
The faster CV are ironically peaceful on deity. This can be done with what the Chinese call a salted fish strategy... I just call it a normal fast push. Basically get writers k.in theatres as fast as possible and then push to printing.
Deity helps because the AI has a lot of gold to give away. Peaceful helps because you can chop slinger and galleys for longer.

 

[TheDouche]

What's the second district you focus on Victoria? Campus? IZ?

 

[Casualty of war]

Two ways I've withstood a close Monty on Deity: one, if coastal, is parking a Galley in my capital which amps the city defense through the roof and two is bushwacking their wounded Warriors in the field if they stop to snipe a City State. Otherwise, good day, Sir. I SAID, GOOD DAY!

I started playing crowded maps to ensure a close starting neighbor and it's helped me with my rush defense. I usually build whatever combat unit will finish as soon after I hit 2 population, then Settler, buy Slinger, then my build order gets real conditional depending on the pressures of the world.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think there are unwinnable starts for everyone.



How do you do that? Is it like a perfect scenario where the stars align? Natural wonder start, harvest, 4 culture CS and kilwa?

Maybe it is possible in principle (outside of bugs). Have we seen any that actually were unwinnable?

 

[Victoria]

With Monty it’s just getting that first war out of the way, he is happier once he has been beaten. Find a spot to entrench warriors on hills with archers behind. The archers shave enough feathers off the eagles before they land a blow. Archers in essence, keep Monty in open ground and ye should do OK. Once he eagles are but a small clutch he will capitulate, it is the early rush you will struggle with.

What's the second district you focus on Victoria? Campus? IZ?

Every game is different for me, I only play optimum or deity sometimes. With deity campus is always going to be high, IZ never on deity, theatre if I am there is a great option. With GS encampments are going to be rather higher on the list.

The really big things are the multipliers @TheDouche ... what I mean is 25% for open borders, 25% for trade route, 15% for Monarchy, these things increase the tourism you have. Also finding every civ earlier. Warring can mean no open borders and no good gold trades so for cultural victories it can be better being peaceful, it’s just on deity that’s not easy.
A good compromise is to war until the Medi age ... so war and expand, place but do not finish districts. Once you hit feudalism pump out builders and chop everything in, amazing how this strat works so well, at T80 you can be on 20 culture and T100 200 culture.
I used to say just concentrate everything n your victory conditions, that’s not good enough really. The keY is every action you do either increases or decreases your win time. Finishing a second district early rather than getting a settler out can cost you 10 turns of victory, chopping in a 5 charge builder rather than hard building can save you 2-3 turns of victory, getting an inspiration or eureka, a turn or 3 each... pillaging that quarry before taking the city.

Finally, if you want an answer put @ in front of a user name or we do not get alerted.