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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
Getting Started
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
That explains it - the news hadn't reached the CFC front page yet, so I didn't know about it. Thanks for the heads up. 
And when people discuss the DLC and thus CiV, your mod inevitably comes up.
Hi Thal,
First of all, great work on the mod. I'm very impressed by its quality and your commitment.
I just have a comment which I believe relates to the feature:
I only just fired up civ5 yesterday (haven't played for a few months or so) and gave the UP+VEM a try. I kept noticing the worker turns not completely making sense.
I don't know what discussion there may have been that lead to this change, but I keep seeing that if an improvement requires, say, 3 worker turns it will say 2 turns to completion. I can see the reasoning (I think) for this. If the worker starts the improvement this turn, in 2 turns from now it can be finished. (e.g. if it's a road it could be used 2 turns from now) However the worker's turn on this, the next and the 2nd turn from now is used, so it seems to make just as much sense to say 3 turns.
It also looks a bit weird when a worker is interrupted (by user or by the game) and it says there are 0 turns left to build the improvement. This is obviously when it takes one more worker turn and can be finished this turn. This is a departure from how previous civ games have counted the worker turns. Or am I just missing something?
If it's entirely intended to be this way, then please don't take this as a complaint. But it's a comment that I feel I should make nonetheless, even if it bothers me so little and doesn't detract at all from this awesome mod!
First of all, great work on the mod. I'm very impressed by its quality and your commitment.
I just have a comment which I believe relates to the feature:
I only just fired up civ5 yesterday (haven't played for a few months or so) and gave the UP+VEM a try. I kept noticing the worker turns not completely making sense.
I don't know what discussion there may have been that lead to this change, but I keep seeing that if an improvement requires, say, 3 worker turns it will say 2 turns to completion. I can see the reasoning (I think) for this. If the worker starts the improvement this turn, in 2 turns from now it can be finished. (e.g. if it's a road it could be used 2 turns from now) However the worker's turn on this, the next and the 2nd turn from now is used, so it seems to make just as much sense to say 3 turns.
It also looks a bit weird when a worker is interrupted (by user or by the game) and it says there are 0 turns left to build the improvement. This is obviously when it takes one more worker turn and can be finished this turn. This is a departure from how previous civ games have counted the worker turns. Or am I just missing something?
If it's entirely intended to be this way, then please don't take this as a complaint. But it's a comment that I feel I should make nonetheless, even if it bothers me so little and doesn't detract at all from this awesome mod!
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Mod
Say it's turn 100 and there's a luxury we're hooking up, which will complete on turn 102.
current turn + turns remaining = turn we can use the luxury
Turn 100: 102-100 = 2 turns remaining
Turn 101: 102-101 = 1 turns remaining
Turn 102: 102-102 = 0 turns remaining, can use the luxury this turn
Vanilla
Vanilla displays one of two things:
A
Turn 100: 2 turns remaining
Turn 101: 1 turn remaining
Turn 102: 1 turn remaining
- or -
B
Turn 100: 3 turns remaining
Turn 101: 2 turn remaining
Turn 102: 1 turn remaining
It can also switch between A and B every turn. It's impossible to know when we'll get the luxury just by looking at the turns remaining. The bug is due to a combination of a rounding error and inconsistently including progress on the current turn.
Say it's turn 100 and there's a luxury we're hooking up, which will complete on turn 102.
current turn + turns remaining = turn we can use the luxury
Turn 100: 102-100 = 2 turns remaining
Turn 101: 102-101 = 1 turns remaining
Turn 102: 102-102 = 0 turns remaining, can use the luxury this turn
Vanilla
Vanilla displays one of two things:
A
Turn 100: 2 turns remaining
Turn 101: 1 turn remaining
Turn 102: 1 turn remaining
- or -
B
Turn 100: 3 turns remaining
Turn 101: 2 turn remaining
Turn 102: 1 turn remaining
It can also switch between A and B every turn. It's impossible to know when we'll get the luxury just by looking at the turns remaining. The bug is due to a combination of a rounding error and inconsistently including progress on the current turn.
Yeah that makes sense.
But you're saying the current way it works is intended (in the mod), yes?
Yet, if there's 0 turns remaining, and you don't manually instruct the worker to complete the improvement on this very turn, then you won't get to use it this turn, but the next, no? As you hit 'next turn', the improvement finishes but your turn is already over. How does ending your turn differ between an improvement with 1 turn remaining and 0 turns remaining?
So a new (official) patch is out today. I'm wondering how much effect it might have on my current game using this mod (VEM+UP).
FYI I just loaded an old 9.1.17b save and it crashes. That has happened before as well. I've really got to set my steam settings to NOT automatically update...
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
It's like if a unit is fortified. We can move the unit, but if we hit next turn, we obviously won't be able to move it this turn. The "0 turns" simply shows us we have the option to use the improvement this turn. Whether or not we choose to do so is up to us.
On a side note, this is one reason why I miss the ctrl+A to immediately move all units with queued orders.
The "0 turns" simply shows us we have the option to use the improvement this turn. Whether or not we choose to do so is up to us.
But is there any reason why you would not want to use it as soon as possible? That's extra happiness towards a golden age, or a strategic resource you could put into use this very turn. Also, the game does nothing to communicate to you the fact that somewhere on the map there's a worker that could complete his task right now if you told them so.
I think you shouldn't be able to complete the improvement that turn, and the turns remaining count should show +1. This way, all improvements consistently finish and the timer is accurate and there's no interface-limited micromanagement (which is one of this game's biggest flaws).
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
We're unable to change how the actions actually work with our current modding tools - only can alter the display.
That's a bummer. My game is crashing as well on attempting to load a savegame. *grumbles about civ5 being steamworks*
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I think something is wrong (feel not alike vanilla) if a city state gives a quest to destroy a barbarian camp and shortly after it manages to complete the quest by itself because of having many military units. Moreover, if your city is nearby a city state there is no need to worry about barbarian unit running around because all will be destroyed by city state's units.
Have you experienced the same?
Have you experienced the same?
I was quite shocked to see such a hard nerf to Korea within 24 hours of it appearing as a civ. That is very unlike you to make such a drastic change to a non-beta without substantive playtesting. I will be the first to admit they are VERY good, albeit still weaker than Babylon, Germany, China, and Siam in their respective playstyles.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@timbuktu
If citystates have fewer units, it's easier to steal workers from them or conquer them.
@Sneaks
It was straightforward because there's a comparison between Korean and Ottoman traits:
The Ottoman trait is very powerful since specialists are more accessible and useful in VEM than vanilla. The Korean trait is even more powerful. I also buffed the Turtle Ship by moving it to an earlier tech.
If citystates have fewer units, it's easier to steal workers from them or conquer them.
@Sneaks
It was straightforward because there's a comparison between Korean and Ottoman traits:
- Ottomans: +1 specialists
- Korea: +1 specialists, free research with each science building
The Ottoman trait is very powerful since specialists are more accessible and useful in VEM than vanilla. The Korean trait is even more powerful. I also buffed the Turtle Ship by moving it to an earlier tech.
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