Getting Started

[Babri]

When was policy & promo saving set as default again ? Policy saving makes sense but what is rationale behind promo saving.

 

[wobuffet]

Maybe you want to save the +4hp boost until later when you might need it.

Alternatively, maybe you think you'll probably want your Knight to get Shock III, but it seems you're not going to fight for a while. So you can put off the promo until the next time it'll have to fight: maybe you'll find out next turn that Monty has Cannons already, in which case you'd rather take Cover I to survive some ranged attacks.

 

[Thalassicus]

Saving promotions is a strategic option (as wobuffet described), and a goal of the project is to increase the game's strategic depth. Civ4 had the capability to save promotions so it has precedent.

 

[Babri]

Saving promotions is a strategic option (as wobuffet described), and a goal of the project is to increase the game's strategic depth. Civ4 had the capability to save promotions so it has precedent.

Thanks for clarification. I ask these questions because I was absent for quite a while before I started playing ciV again lately.

 

[skodkim]

What would happen if you loaded a map with a scenario with promotion and policy saving off?

\Skodkim

 

[Thalassicus]

I'm not really sure. These settings work strangely... it was a challenge figuring out how exactly they're detected and used.

 

[sojourner99]

I like this mod a lot but can not fathom why oil was made next to useless. Only the battleship and tank use it now? These were some of the least commonly used units. Additionally by making the bomber now use aluminum there are no options for air artillery for players who lack aluminum. At least before if a person had oil they could make bombers or if they had aluminum the fancier stealth bombers.

Additionally by not having the original oil using units keep to using that it makes the game too unbalanced as you don't have to choose anymore between say fighters and tanks.
Kind of disappointing as this takes away a lot of the fun to play out one in your games one of the modern conflicts of our time, the battle for oil. Now its the battle for aluminum?

EDIT: Additionally I was trying to simply disable VEM to use only the unofficial patch part of the mod but adding the underscore doesnt seem to work. In fact deleting my whole VEM folder doesnt seem to work :/ Am I missing something? Thanks.

 

[Zaldron]

I like this mod a lot but can not fathom why oil was made next to useless. Only the battleship and tank use it now? These were some of the least commonly used units. Additionally by making the bomber now use aluminum there are no options for air artillery for players who lack aluminum. At least before if a person had oil they could make bombers or if they had aluminum the fancier stealth bombers.

Additionally by not having the original oil using units keep to using that it makes the game too unbalanced as you don't have to choose anymore between say fighters and tanks.
Kind of disappointing as this takes away a lot of the fun to play out one in your games one of the modern conflicts of our time, the battle for oil. Now its the battle for aluminum?

There was quite a discussion about how to handle modern resources when this change was made. I'm not quite sure about the process to split oil and aluminum they way they were but recall that Thal changed resource allocation so that every civ will have each strategic resource nearby so you can always build a few respective units. Also battleships and tanks are far from useless in VEM so there's much more incentive to build them than in vanilla.

 

[Thalassicus]

Bombers used to be the only reason to get oil in vanilla. Tanks, battleships, and fighters were not useful. Once we acquired stealth bombers, oil lost its importance entirely for vanilla. It was only valuable for that narrow window of opportunity between the Bomber and Stealth Bomber technologies.

Vem made oil much more important for any advanced land or sea warfare in the Industrial and Modern eras. I strongly buffed tanks to 5 and 2 sight range (was 4, 1) and nerfed Mechanized Infantry to 3 (was 4). Battleships are more powerful with +50% vs cities, higher base strength, and 6 movement (was 4). Modern armor, nuclear subs, and rocket artillery now require oil (unlike before).

Unlike vanilla, in vem each player's territory always has exactly 3 oil and 4 aluminum, as described in how players/resources get placed. Deposits are also 50% more numerous than vanilla. This makes it nearly impossible to lack a strategic resource.

These use resources:

Oil

• Tanks
• Modern Armor (was aluminum)
• Rocket Artillery (was aluminum)
• Battleships
• Missile Cruisers
• Nuclear Submarines (was uranium)

Aluminum

• Fighters (was oil)
• Bombers (was oil)
• Jet Fighters
• Stealth Bombers
• Spaceship Factory

None

• Hydro Plant (was aluminum)
• Helicopters (was aluminum)

 

[PinkRose]

Hello. Long time lurker. Been using the CiVUP and Thal mods since they first were posted.
I'm not a serious player so I don't follow all the serious discussion closely, but this made me want to post.
How come Nuclear Subs don't use Uranium?

 

[Thalassicus]

Glad you like the mods!

I decided to focus subs on oil for two reasons.

From a realistic perspective, most world events about nuclear energy involve 1) nuclear missiles or 2) civilian nuclear power plants. I haven't seen subs in the discussion, or the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers (which also run on nuclear power). So in Civ terms... these units do run on uranium, just not enough to count as consuming an entire "uranium resource."

From a gameplay perspective, the deadliness of a nuclear submarine is very different from a nuclear bomb or missile. With the choice of using uranium on subs or nukes, I suspect everyone would use it on the nukes (I know I did). To make those equivalent the nuclear weapons would probably have to use 5-10 uranium.

I'll rename the unit to "Missile Sub," which should make more sense. I think that's what it was called in Civ 4.

 

[black213]

What was the reason behind reducing experience from military buildings?

 

[Thalassicus]

I described it in the Late Game Conquest thread, third paragraph.

 

[Txurce]

What was the reason behind reducing experience from military buildings?

I described it in the Late Game Conquest thread, third paragraph.

I had the same question as black213, as the slight nerf seems like a little less fun for infinitesimally slower conquest.

All i see in the third paragraph of your OP is stuff about courthouses and a vague reference to an idea of EmperorFool's.

 

[Seek]

All i see in the third paragraph of your OP is stuff about courthouses and a vague reference to an idea of EmperorFool's.

It's the paragraph above that one.

 

[Txurce]

It's the paragraph above that one.

Thanks, Seek. That covers buffing the Military Academy, but not the recent reduction to the Barracks. Again, I don't think the nerf is a big deal. I'm just not sure whether it's worth it.

 

[Seek]

Yeah, I don't build barracks in more than one city until lategame as it is, and may not even build that now.

 

[Thalassicus]

A similar idea is late game experience buildings (like the Military Academy) could provide a larger bonus than early buildings.

I realize now it was a little vague, but what I meant is a shift from early to late. Early game is slightly lower, and midgame is higher (Militarism moved to the Renaissance from Industrial).

Barracks are very powerful for a conqueror like myself because our units can immediately start with +20% strength. It gives the edge needed for initiating warfare. I like this style of play myself, and wanted to make it more challenging. The change is small because we still begin with the +20% bonus. It just takes an extra 1-2 battles to reach the second promotion.

 

[Babri]

Did u nerfed dojo as well or just barracks ?

 

[Thalassicus]

The dojo was left alone because it's intended to let units start with 2 promotions. I'm okay with the slight buff since Japan didn't rank in the top tier of the favorite leaders poll.