Gigantic Earth map with only 1 starting civilization / Barbarian cities spawn

[tebriz]

I want to start a game on the default Gigantic Earth map that is included in C2C (the one where there are 5 starting civilizations: Sumeria, Egypt, India, China and Maya). I want the world to be completely empty with only myself as a starting civilization somewhere in Mesopotamia. So, I have edited this map and removed all other starting civilizations (and even tribal villages) from the map.

What I want to achieve: A dynamic world from the very beginning where barbarian cities and thus new civilizations start to apprear ASAP.

What is the problem: Barbarian cities don't spawn in the old world in early stages of the game. The only other barbarians cities that are present in the game by the time I discover Tribalism, are in Americas (I have selected "0" in "eras behind" in BUG options). This definitely doesn't suit me, because I want a dynamic old world even in Prehistoric era.

As a solution, I tried to give myself an extra Tribe unit using WB from from the very beginning of the game. I thought founding my 2nd city will cause barbarian cities to spawn earlier. But it didn't work. It only gave me a huge buff, so I was able to settle a vast area by the time I reached Tribalism, and barbarian cities were present still only in Americas.

So, my question are:
1) How can I solve this problem? What should I do in order that barbarian cities start to spawn ASAP?
2) Could removing all tribal villages play a negative role in it?
3) In case if founding my 2nd city is a must have for this - what is the optimal time to build it? (I don't want to found my 2nd city right from the beginning when it will not cause barbarian cities to spawn anyway and will only be a buff for me). I want to grant myself a Tribe and found 2nd city AFTER the moment when it will ACTUALLY cause/help barbarian cities to spawn. So, is there a specific turn representing x% of game that has passed when barbarian cities start to spawn in C2C (with Marathon speed, Noble difficulty and w/o Raging Barbarian option)?

P.S. It this Earth map updated with latest C2C version (does it have all new resources, animals etc.)?

 

[Toffer90]

Start with barbarian world so that there's at least 1 barbarian city at turn 0, there will be one per starting civ..
Perhaps even the raging barbarians option as that will increase barb city spawning.

There may be a hardcoded delay before barb cities can spawn though, it scales by gamespeed, but can be made smaller by selecting a higher difficulty level.

A second city is not required for barb cities to spawn.

 

[tebriz]

Thank you very much for clarifying that 2nd city plays no role!

I will try to start with BarbarianWorld option, but I am pretty sure it will not add barbarian city at turn 0. Because it is a scenario, not a custom game. Anyway, I will try. Also, if you think that it will help to achieve my goal, I can put a barbarian city from WB at turn 0.

I will also try Raging Barbarians option.

What about tribal villages (goody huts) do their presence in game affect barbarian city spawn rate?

 

[Toffer90]

What about tribal villages (goody huts) do their presence in game affect barbarian city spawn rate?

They do not.

I will try to start with BarbarianWorld option, but I am pretty sure it will not add barbarian city at turn 0. Because it is a scenario, not a custom game. Anyway, I will try. Also, if you think that it will help to achieve my goal, I can put a barbarian city from WB at turn 0.

Right, a scenario, I don't know if the option will add a city at turn 0 then, but I know the option still influence how many barb cities can be placed relative to how many civ players+cities there are on the given map size.

Thank you very much for clarifying that 2nd city plays no role!

Number of non-barb cities can play a role.
With only 1 player and 1 non-barb city on gigantic map size:
Barbarian world: Barbarians can't have more than 3 cities on the map.
Without barbarian world: Barbarians can't have more than 2 cities on the map.

If you found a second city the max is:
Barbarian world: Barbarians can't have more than 4 cities on the map.
Without barbarian world: Barbarians can't have more than 2 cities on the map.

The equation is:

    // Hard limit on barb/civ city ratio.
    const int iMax = iCivCities + (countCivPlayersAlive() + GC.getWorldInfo(GC.getMap().getWorldSize()).getDefaultPlayers()) / 2;
    if (isOption(GAMEOPTION_BARBARIAN_WORLD) ? iMax <= iBarbCities * 3 : iMax <= iBarbCities * 8)
    {
        return; // @tebriz: return means: don't create more barb cities.
    }

I could make some changes to it if you'd like, but I will have to think on it a little, we can't have it over-flood the map with so many barbs that any civs would surely be conquered by multiple barb stacks of doom coming from all directions. lol.

 

[tebriz]

OMG! Thank you VERY much for your clarifications! This is exactly the information I was looking for!

So, if you are alone on map with Barbarian World option ON - you can get up to 3 barbarian cities spawned before discovering Tribalism... It seems OK for me and I don't think this limit should be increased...

What I would like to see indeed, is to get these 3 cities spawn a little bit EARLIER If you can do something in this regard, it would be awesome! Meanwhile, I will try Raging Barbarians option, hope it will also make them spawn a little bit earlier.

I think I just figured out that the reason for my previous frustration (for not having any barbarian cities in Old World) was "New World to be 0 era behind" BUG option. I guess this option was making it possible that first barbarians cities are spawned only in Americas. So, if I change it to "New World be 1 era behind", would it force first barbarian cities spawn exclusively in Eurasia/Africa?

 

[JosEPh_II]

OMG! Thank you VERY much for your clarifications! This is exactly the information I was looking for!

So, if you are alone on map with Barbarian World option ON - you can get up to 3 barbarian cities spawned before discovering Tribalism... It seems OK for me and I don't think this limit should be increased...

What I would like to see indeed, is to get these 3 cities spawn a little bit EARLIER If you can do something in this regard, it would be awesome! Meanwhile, I will try Raging Barbarians option, hope it will also make them spawn a little bit earlier.

I think I just figured out that the reason for my previous frustration (for not having any barbarian cities in Old World) was "New World to be 0 era behind" BUG option. I guess this option was making it possible that first barbarians cities are spawned only in Americas. So, if I change it to "New World be 1 era behind", would it force first barbarian cities spawn exclusively in Eurasia/Africa?

Instead of using Old World start Use Start Everywhere. It makes a Huge difference for Barb cities appearing in all my test games. ( I test for Civics and for tweaking Civics).

 

[tebriz]

Got it! I will use it when I play regular games.

But in this case it is a scenario, not a custom game. So, I can't use this option before starting game

 

[JosEPh_II]

Got it! I will use it when I play regular games.

But in this case it is a scenario, not a custom game. So, I can't use this option before starting game

Can you change the scenario set up?

 

[tebriz]

What exactly do you mean? I can choose custom scenario in order to change game options and victory conditions. But there is no way to select "Old World start" or "Start anywhere" option for this scenario there.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Are you Using Pit2015 UEM scenario?

 

[tebriz]

Actually no, I was using the other one with 5 preset civilizations... But after googling Pit2015 UEM, I think I will consider playing it instead

 

[raxo2222]

What exactly do you mean? I can choose custom scenario in order to change game options and victory conditions. But there is no way to select "Old World start" or "Start anywhere" option for this scenario there.

Those are mapscript settings, so its done during map generation.

Scenarios have this stuff baked in.

 

[Toffer90]

What I would like to see indeed, is to get these 3 cities spawn a little bit EARLIER If you can do something in this regard, it would be awesome! Meanwhile, I will try Raging Barbarians option, hope it will also make them spawn a little bit earlier.

There may be a hardcoded delay before barb cities can spawn though, it scales by gamespeed, but can be made smaller by selecting a higher difficulty level.

I'll look into tweaking it, my first thought is to perhaps make the "barbarian world" option remove this delay entirely.

 

[Toffer90]

I will try to start with BarbarianWorld option, but I am pretty sure it will not add barbarian city at turn 0. Because it is a scenario, not a custom game. Anyway, I will try. Also, if you think that it will help to achieve my goal, I can put a barbarian city from WB at turn 0.

You are right, barbarian world does not spawn barb cities on turn 0 for scenarios. The exe never asks the dll to run its CvGame::setInitialItems() function when starting a scenario, cause all it does is supposed to be handled by python code when reading in the scenario game data. I don't think I should add in python code for scenario read to add barb cities if the option is on as the map maker should control when and where starting barb cities should be. If I remove the delay for spawning barb cities when barbarian world is active this will make up for that pretty good imo.

 

[tebriz]

Are you Using Pit2015 UEM scenario?

Sorry for the noob question - but how can I get your scenario? I see no download link here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-and-svn-update-compatible-by-pit2015.552901/

 

[tebriz]

I think removing the delay for spawning barb cities when barbarian world is active is the perfect solution!

 

[raxo2222]

Sorry for the noob question - but how can I get your scenario? I see no download link here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-and-svn-update-compatible-by-pit2015.552901/

See attachments on bottom of that post.
That scenario is unbalanced, and will slow down a lot in later game, unless you don't want to reach midgame, which is Renaissance and later.
Also scenarios are useless for what you want to do for now, but Toffer is going to change it.

 

[tebriz]

What about the scenario I play right now? The Gigantic Earth map with 5 civs which is included in C2C?

 

[raxo2222]

What about the scenario I play right now? The Gigantic Earth map with 5 civs which is included in C2C?

Its old scenario, so may be unbalanced, or may have some missing resources.

 

[Toffer90]

I think removing the delay for spawning barb cities when barbarian world is active is the perfect solution!

It has been done. SVN rev. 11219.