Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
gorm - I'd just like to see what's under that dark spot north of green dot. One or two tiles from our western warrior would be sufficient. It may help out in our city placement.
GK1- The Wrath of Khan!!
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
I'd like to see some more northwest of Berlin! But it can wait!
gormdragan
King
I think you are both talking about the same spot. In any case, I will post a screenshot, once we get IW and let's start the discussion again from there. Screenshot will be tonight though.
Bede's tuppence:
Liz approaches from the West Riding. If her capitol is to the south west she's mired in the jungle and can't be very productive. If her capital is to the west or northwest it becomes imperative that we lock down the western approaches with a walled town on the hill above the river. It is defensible ground and with proper unit placement we can force her approaching warriors into the open killing ground west and south of the river or towards the NW.
We know where Joanie's borders are, we haven't found Liz's border yet. Once we know that we need to take the war to her, and develop our backline cities to the north and east. Incense on line and Settler production at Berlin will solve the happiness and lux tax problem. With Berlin at pop 5-7 we can alternate builds between military and settlers.
I can't buy the 20 warrior plan. That's 400 gold to upgrade and meanwhile they are not much more than MP's and each one costs 1gpt meanwhile.
I would want to take the war towards Liz. It will keep her poor and stunt her growth.
Good hunting, gorm.
Bede
Liz approaches from the West Riding. If her capitol is to the south west she's mired in the jungle and can't be very productive. If her capital is to the west or northwest it becomes imperative that we lock down the western approaches with a walled town on the hill above the river. It is defensible ground and with proper unit placement we can force her approaching warriors into the open killing ground west and south of the river or towards the NW.
We know where Joanie's borders are, we haven't found Liz's border yet. Once we know that we need to take the war to her, and develop our backline cities to the north and east. Incense on line and Settler production at Berlin will solve the happiness and lux tax problem. With Berlin at pop 5-7 we can alternate builds between military and settlers.
I can't buy the 20 warrior plan. That's 400 gold to upgrade and meanwhile they are not much more than MP's and each one costs 1gpt meanwhile.
I would want to take the war towards Liz. It will keep her poor and stunt her growth.
Good hunting, gorm.
Bede
gormdragan
King
Preturn:
Good news!!! India already has the wheel, and mystism. French has mystism. I should be able to trade for the wheel and mystism the next turn.
Trade 25gp for a french worker.
2150:
Berlin makes war, starts settler.
Trade IW for Wheel+29gp. India got IW IBT.
I will stop here, so that we can discuss. This is a very bad start. We have neither iron nor horse and only 1 single luxury (don't even have extra for trading). We are in for a rough ride.
To be continued.
Good news!!! India already has the wheel, and mystism. French has mystism. I should be able to trade for the wheel and mystism the next turn.
Trade 25gp for a french worker.
2150:
Berlin makes war, starts settler.
Trade IW for Wheel+29gp. India got IW IBT.
I will stop here, so that we can discuss. This is a very bad start. We have neither iron nor horse and only 1 single luxury (don't even have extra for trading). We are in for a rough ride.
To be continued.
Gengis Khan
Deity
The only iron I see is in the SW mountain & I don't see a single horse. I'm sure I'm missing some(I really hope so at least).
Can you edit your map with the iron & horses highlighted or circled or something to make it easier to plan.
Thanks in advance!
Can you edit your map with the iron & horses highlighted or circled or something to make it easier to plan.
Thanks in advance!
gormdragan
King
Red circle denotes Iron. No horses in sight.
Gengis Khan
Deity
See I was missing something..................one freaking iron source.I remember saying this challenge would be tough, but I don't remember naming it Mission Impossible. Looks like our first dozen battles will be fought with *gulp* archers.
:suicide:
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
My first view:
No chance with iron! It is gonna take a 100 turns before it is hooked up to our capitol.
Since we have no horsies at all (you did make the screenshot after the IW-wheel trade? Of course you did, just wishful thinking here), we have no choice, I think!
Maybe someting shows up northwest of Berlin?
No chance with iron! It is gonna take a 100 turns before it is hooked up to our capitol.
Since we have no horsies at all (you did make the screenshot after the IW-wheel trade? Of course you did, just wishful thinking here), we have no choice, I think!
Maybe someting shows up northwest of Berlin?
General thoughts:
Ouch. no iron, no horse.
Looks like a war of attrition.
Won't have the muscle to launch an offensive against Liz till we get cats (where the h... is she anyway?). She's at least 14 squares away to the W or SW and probably already has IW from India. If she keeps coming at us from the W an outpost city on that hill and river to the NW will help. If there's a barb camp between us and Liz that may slow her down a little.
What about pushing bow/spear pairs toward Liz, once we find her, and try a park and pillage tactic? That will stop her growth and we can pick her mililtary to pieces as they emerge into the open.
Good hunting, gorm.
Ouch. no iron, no horse.
Looks like a war of attrition.
Won't have the muscle to launch an offensive against Liz till we get cats (where the h... is she anyway?). She's at least 14 squares away to the W or SW and probably already has IW from India. If she keeps coming at us from the W an outpost city on that hill and river to the NW will help. If there's a barb camp between us and Liz that may slow her down a little.
What about pushing bow/spear pairs toward Liz, once we find her, and try a park and pillage tactic? That will stop her growth and we can pick her mililtary to pieces as they emerge into the open.
Good hunting, gorm.
gormdragan
King
Some, including myself, consider a pillage growth tactic as abusive. I like to know the group's opinion on this.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
I don't have experience with the pillage growth tactic. It seems a bit abusive, but I think it is fair in this game 
!
We are not in a hurry! We don't need to finsih lizzy rigth now!
I keep saying that settling on the right spots still is the most important thing to do! We should focus on that first!
!We are not in a hurry! We don't need to finsih lizzy rigth now!
I keep saying that settling on the right spots still is the most important thing to do! We should focus on that first!
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Just throwing options out here:
Option #1 How about a spear archer rush on Paris. I know we're not suppose to start our AW with Joan until Liz is dead, but that doesn't mean we can't start a limited war much earlier. Paris could be our western city and we could put three more in between Paris and Berlin. Many the cyan dot, the cow dot, and the dot by the game from my post earlier. With a force of 7 archers and 3 spears, we could take Paris. We would then sue for peace when Joanie will talk to us.
Advantages - Don't have to clear jungle, Good defensible land. Iron, wine
Disadvantages - Not as many rivers. Two front war for a few turns.
Option #2 - Settle down by the iron, then have a city north of that by the dyes, the coastal city from my turns and probably gorm's green dot.
Advantages - we get the lux and iron. A lot of rivers
Disadvantages - We have to clear that jungle. Better go slave hunting.
Option #3 - Work our original plan. save one or two cities for remoter locations. Bring in resources with colonies and long roads.
Advantages - We get production up quicker.
Disadvantages - Scattered cities, defending colonies
Option #1 How about a spear archer rush on Paris. I know we're not suppose to start our AW with Joan until Liz is dead, but that doesn't mean we can't start a limited war much earlier. Paris could be our western city and we could put three more in between Paris and Berlin. Many the cyan dot, the cow dot, and the dot by the game from my post earlier. With a force of 7 archers and 3 spears, we could take Paris. We would then sue for peace when Joanie will talk to us.
Advantages - Don't have to clear jungle, Good defensible land. Iron, wine
Disadvantages - Not as many rivers. Two front war for a few turns.
Option #2 - Settle down by the iron, then have a city north of that by the dyes, the coastal city from my turns and probably gorm's green dot.
Advantages - we get the lux and iron. A lot of rivers
Disadvantages - We have to clear that jungle. Better go slave hunting.
Option #3 - Work our original plan. save one or two cities for remoter locations. Bring in resources with colonies and long roads.
Advantages - We get production up quicker.
Disadvantages - Scattered cities, defending colonies
gormdragan
King
I think you hit the nail with the first option, for the following reasons.
(1) Paris has iron.
(2) We get our 2nd luxury in the wine south of Paris.
(3) We still have a decent defensive placement strategically.
Here is my take on a new dotmap based on your option #1.
Our 5 cities can be:
(1) Berlin
(2) Red or Blue (we can do a palace jump).
(3) Paris
(4) Cyan
(5) Yellow or Orange (or even a city west of Berlin).
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Boy, Bede's archer and spear build is looking smarter all the time.
I would go for the tile between yellow and orange. It gets the game without having two mountains in its 21 tiles.
As for palace jump, I'd do it only if we do it with a leader. Disbanding Berlin would cripple us.
Do we want to consider the cyan dot one tile south for a coastal site, or are we in enough trouble that we should max production?
I'd go for blue dot for more shield producing hills.
I would go for the tile between yellow and orange. It gets the game without having two mountains in its 21 tiles.
As for palace jump, I'd do it only if we do it with a leader. Disbanding Berlin would cripple us.
Do we want to consider the cyan dot one tile south for a coastal site, or are we in enough trouble that we should max production?
I'd go for blue dot for more shield producing hills.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Just so option two get's a hearing, here's a potential dot map:
Pro's: once that jungle is cleared we will have a lot of Grassland. Grabs the iron and dyes. Defensible land without horses.
Con's: Jungle
Pro's: once that jungle is cleared we will have a lot of Grassland. Grabs the iron and dyes. Defensible land without horses.
Con's: Jungle
gormdragan
King
To be frank, I think option #2 is very problematic.
(1) We need to road 4 grassland, 4 jungles, 1 mountain and 1 hill to bring iron back to Berlin.
(2) I very must doubt our settler will make it there b4 anyone else.
@Bugsy
The square between yellow and orange does not have river access. That's why I picked Orange. Having a token number of mountains is actually good for production so I dun see what;s wrong with yellow.
When I said palace jump, I meant building or rushing. Disbanding Berlin is a Free Palace Jump. Sorry about the confusion.
(1) We need to road 4 grassland, 4 jungles, 1 mountain and 1 hill to bring iron back to Berlin.
(2) I very must doubt our settler will make it there b4 anyone else.
@Bugsy
The square between yellow and orange does not have river access. That's why I picked Orange. Having a token number of mountains is actually good for production so I dun see what;s wrong with yellow.
When I said palace jump, I meant building or rushing. Disbanding Berlin is a Free Palace Jump. Sorry about the confusion.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Gorm, I'm not convinced option 2 is our best option either. I just thought it should be given a fair hearing. If everybody else thinks it's 
Then it should be given it's last meal and shot at dawn.
Another reason to consider orange, more river tiles=more commerce.
I didn't know the spot between yellow and orange didn't have river access. Which makes yellow more problematic. With the red/blue site not being on a river, we're already having to build one aqueduct. Not having to spend another 100 shields on a second aqueduct would be a good thing.
Then it should be given it's last meal and shot at dawn.Another reason to consider orange, more river tiles=more commerce.
I didn't know the spot between yellow and orange didn't have river access. Which makes yellow more problematic. With the red/blue site not being on a river, we're already having to build one aqueduct. Not having to spend another 100 shields on a second aqueduct would be a good thing.
gormdragan
King
We definitely should consider all our options. Therefore, my response were merely my first thoughts on option 2.
Edit - now that you mentioned it, can someone confirm that the spot between yellow and orange has river access? If so, I think it's a better spot.
Edit - now that you mentioned it, can someone confirm that the spot between yellow and orange has river access? If so, I think it's a better spot.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Let's see if I can open up the game here at work.
*opens multiple databases to obscure the task bar*
*opens multiple databases to obscure the task bar*
