GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[scoutsout]

@Mistfit: I'm glad you got something out of GK2.1. Skirmishing is powerful stuff, and it can be used quite effectively against the widely feared Persian Immortal. I've seen Immortals rip through maginot lines like they weren't even there.... and I've taken down stacks of Immortals with lowly Horsemen.

I've used skirmishing effectively in 2 other SGs recently, once with Modern Armor. Imagine having Modern Armor and still being outnumbered/outgunned, and not allowed to invade the AI under variant rules. Those 7 turns were some of the wildest turns I've ever played.

 

[alerum68]

Yeah, was very nice having an army of fast movers we could use, without having to worry about throwing away alot of other turns! I believe SK is up here, and I know he's up in DGIT... DGiT is really close to completion, (FINALLY!) and no offense, but I'm hoping he does that one first. He may feel the same way, so it may be a while before he'll claim it. I think it's pretty straight forward what we should do... attack Zulu for ~10 turns, then take out Persia, and make the contient ours!

 

[GJ]

@thread leaders: one more thanks for GK2.1. Not only did I get some tactics out of it, I got to play with a new font in the screenshot.

If you're looking for someone to fill Binyo's slot, I'd very much like to join the GK2 SG proper.

Thanks again for the exercise.
--GJ

 

[Sir Bugsy]

So after having done the simulator, does that change any of your long term strategies, or your approach to assaulting Persia?

 

[Mistfit]

Anyone heard from GK recently? I hope he's not passed out under someones front stoop after partying from class being out. Edit: well actually I more wish that I was with him passed out somewhere.

Edit#2 I didn't see Bugsey's question - It really dosen't change the long term goal of taking Persia but it would change the WAY I would plan to take them. I like the idea of making war with them, waiting for the initial onslaught, setting up our own killing fields to take them on our terms instead of theirs. and then rushing down to take out the cities once the majority of their Immortals have been slain at the choke point. I would however still try to plant a spear or two on their iron to make sure they aren't able to make more Imm's. (those things are really mean)

 

[coletite]

I still think going after Persia first is a strong option. If we station a good number of MWs in Panama, we can almost exactly repeat the simulation. Wait for the barrage of Immortals to attack Panama, then skirmish them to death. Throw in the spears taking out the Iron mountain and Persia should fall quickly.

 

[Mistfit]

@ coletite

IMHO after the simulation I do not believe we have enough MW's at this point to take them out. I would prefer to have enough to wipe them from the planet, not just put a dent in them, and wait for 20 turns to finish the job. That seems to much like Iraq with George Sr. and Geroge Jr. (please do not take offense to this comment)

Edit: if I can believe my own turn report we only have 2 in Panama and 2 or 3 with in a turn or two from there

 

[coletite]

I agree. I'm not sure how many MWs we have right now. Of course, if we send our Swords against Zulu and continue to produce MWs, then we could always attack Persia before we are done with Zulu. Of course this does assume something that I am not sure about right now:

That we have enough swords to finish Zulu without building more.


Also, how many MWs do we want against Persia? Are the Zulu an open and shut case?

[edit] Just saw Mistfits edit... definetly not enough! I guess Zulu it is!

 

[Mistfit]

For what it is worth in his massive write up shadowing my turns on turn three GK said he thought we had enough swords for a while. I typically build to many because I am afraid of bad RNG. Although I must say in my set of turns the RNG gods were with me.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

For what it is worth in his massive write up shadowing my turns on turn three GK said he thought we had enough swords for a while. I typically build to many because I am afraid of bad RNG.

I think some of the things you guys are learning in the simulation will help a "bad RNG." I think sound tactics can overcome most RNG hiccups. It is sort of like making your own luck. If you don't have any units exposed to Immortal attack, they can't be killed. The skirmishing that you are learning will be very effective. I think you will be surprised at how nice the RNG will get.

Now don't think that X-man will have as many Immortals as you saw in the simulation. I think with the proper tactics, 10-12 mounted warriors will be fine.

 

[Mistfit]

If that is the case, I think that we could prolly start a war with him after about 10-15 turns. I do think, however, that taking the Zulu out with in 10-15 turns will be difficult but by the end of 10 turns we should have no problem fighting a two front war because the Zulu should be on the ropes and counter attacks will be nil at that point, Shaka will be hanging on for dear life.

Edit to make the post legable...good lord my mother would be ashamed of me (she was 24yrs an Engligh teacher)

 

[denyd]

Another possibility would be to start the war with the Zulu using swords and with most of the MW on the southern front. Once Shaka is down to 1-2 cities, attack with a weakened unit with a MW (have a couple ready in case of bad RNG) and kick off your GA. That would allow you a couple of turns of GA production of MW before beginning the Persian war.

If you wanted to be really sneaky, you could enlist X-Man against Shaka and then let him move most of his offensive forces into your lands before you declare war on him. That way his forces are all exposed in open territory and vunerable to your first strike. (Known as the SirPleib corridor of death maneuver)

 

[coletite]

Hmm... interesting... "Corridor of Death" I like it. The rep hit is a gamble, but if we wipe out the Zulu and Persians before they make contact with anyone else...

 

[denyd]

There is no rep hit really, as long as Shaka is still alive, you didn't break your alliance with Persia. In fact if you got X-man as an ally when the war started, you might even let him get his troops to the north and finish off Shaka for you, then he'd be breaking the alliance since he ended the war. With the alliance over you could declare on him and attack his exposed units before he could react.

 

[coletite]

I don't think I understand... if we allign with Persia, he sends troops into our lands, then we attack those troops, won't that cause a rep hit?

 

[DJMGator13]

I've used skirmishing effectively in 2 other SGs recently, once with Modern Armor. Imagine having Modern Armor and still being outnumbered/outgunned, and not allowed to invade the AI under variant rules. Those 7 turns were some of the wildest turns I've ever played.

Now combine the skirmish tatic with artillery or bombers and you can weaken the approaching troops before sending the first mobile unit into combat. I always try to keep all my artillery & bombers on the front line to weaken the counter-attack. (Hopefully this game will continue long enough for us to experiement with that.)

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We plan on taking this game all the way to the modern age, and we plan on seeing all governments.

 

[denyd]

Coletite: don't think I understand... if we allign with Persia, he sends troops into our lands, then we attack those troops, won't that cause a rep hit?

Denyd:
Step 1: Declare war on Shaka
Step 2: Ally with Xerxes against Shaka
Step 3: Begin attacking Shaka while X-man starts marching his troops through our lands (we don't complain). Since he doesn't have an ROP, his Immortals only move 1 tile per turn even on roads
Step 4: We save the last Zulu city for X-man
Step 5: X-man kills off Shaka, thereby ending our alliance and taking the Rep hit
Step 6: Declare war on X-man and kill off his exposed Immortals
Step 7: Land spears and pillage the iron source
Step 8: Wipe out a Persia without having to face many Immortals

The corridor of death from a devilish trap set by SirPleib

READ ABOUT IT HERE

 

[alerum68]

Question for you Denyd... you said the Persia will get a rep hit for remove Shaka... so if you sign an aliance with party A against party B, and you finish your missing and wipe out party B, you take a rep hit?!

 

[scoutsout]

@Denyd: There's a slight problem with the "Funnel of Doom" tactic in this game vis-a-vis Persia: We've got 2 chokepoint cities between us and the X-man... (Though I would love to set up a funnel... it's a tactic that has absolutely no basis in reality, which is why it was such an eye-opener for me when I first read that...I would never have thought of that...)

@Team: Don't get too antsy to take on Persia - there are some larger issues we need to look at. Namely: What does our current military positioning look like? i.e. where are we strong, geographically?

Logistics plays a huge factor in this... If we take a few MW's south to Panama "just in case", we now know that we have little to fear from the X-man.... but bringing our swords back from the edge of Japan... that's a maneuver that would make Longstreet proud...

A little insight for my former teammates: I'm a decent tactician; but there is a difference between tactics and strategy. I still consider myself a student when it comes to some of the strategy stuff in this game. Just because we just had a nice little slugfest with Persia in GK2.1 does not necessarily mean that's the way I think we need to go...