Global Warming: Scientific Consensus Proved Wrong

[luiz]

The greater point here, IMO, is not that GW is worse than the models predicted. The greater point is that those computer models for the environment are totally unreliable.

I almost fall off my bed laughing when I see on Discovery Channel those "scientists" "proving" with their computer models that one more degree celsius in the South Atlantic causes one million new hurricanes in the Caribbean... that's some solid science.

 

[Ball Lightning]

Goodie, another combatant gets in on the issue to mix it up even more.

Things got real interesting with that recent NASA screw-up, and it just keeps getting better.

So now we have even more scenarios to choose from than we did before. Which one is actually gonna happen?

There may be more and more scenarios, but the actual FACTS have shown that we have UNDERESTIMATED the rapid melting of ice. So even if NASA, which is only one of many major scientific institutes around the world researching global warming, have stuffed up, we are seeing that what we stuffed up was that we thought it was going to be gradual, and we could stop it. But as more and more research continues, we relize that it is already happening, much sooner and faster then we ever thought.

 

[azzaman333]

There may be more and more scenarios, but the actual FACTS have shown that we have UNDERESTIMATED the rapid melting of ice. So even if NASA, which is only one of many major scientific institutes around the world researching global warming, have stuffed up, we are seeing that what we stuffed up was that we thought it was going to be gradual, and we could stop it. But as more and more research continues, we relize that it is already happening, much sooner and faster then we ever thought.

Or, we just really suck at making reliable calculations on global warming...

 

[Ball Lightning]

Which we did and still do to some degree, as we don't know all the factors and follow on effects from CO2 increase and CO2 from nature. But what we do know is that CO2 is going up faster then anyone expected and that ice is melting faster then anyone expected.

 

[El_Machinae]

The greater point here, IMO, is not that GW is worse than the models predicted. The greater point is that those computer models for the environment are totally unreliable.

Right, yes, the important thing in a story about how things are worse than the doomsayers predicted is that they were wrong. The idiots.

 

[Ball Lightning]

Right, yes, the important thing in a story about how things are worse than the doomsayers predicted is that they were wrong. The idiots.

The "Doomsayers" where wrong, very wrong. It was way worse then they predicted, we may within 20 years see no artic ice at all (that is being pessimistic) but if the artic is melting faster then anyone expected, what about greenland and antarctica.

The only problem with Antartica is that we have not known much about the thickness and actual amount of ice there. But have only started fully analizing it in the last few years, so we'll see how fast it is melting in the next 5 years.

 

[azzaman333]

The "Doomsayers" where wrong, very wrong. It was way worse then they predicted, we may within 20 years see no artic ice at all (that is being pessimistic) but if the artic is melting faster then anyone expected, what about greenland and antarctica.

The only problem with Antartica is that we have not known much about the thickness and actual amount of ice there. But have only started fully analizing it in the last few years, so we'll see how fast it is melting in the next 5 years.

So, we're already screwed? No point doing anything else to save the planet then, it's ****ed.

 

[Ball Lightning]

So, we're already screwed? No point doing anything else to save the planet then, it's ****ed.

Not really, many places people will be able to live as they do today, our technology will help all the rich countries (unfortunately, it'll probably cost to much for some areas of the world).

But we can still try to limit our damage, the world will not die, but it will go into a state of warming which we humans and most of the creatures on this earth will not cope well in. But we can limit our destruction. If we stopped all CO2 output by 2050, then there is a large chance we will have prevented any major global warming, otherwise we are probably screwed.

 

[azzaman333]

Not really, many places people will be able to live as they do today, our technology will help all the rich countries (unfortunately, it'll probably cost to much for some areas of the world).

But we can still try to limit our damage, the world will not die, but it will go into a state of warming which we humans and most of the creatures on this earth will not cope well in. But we can limit our destruction. If we stopped all CO2 output by 2050, then there is a large chance we will have prevented any major global warming, otherwise we are probably screwed.

Not going to happen, for 2 reasons.

Governments don't give a crap
80% of people dont give a crap.

 

[m4gill4]

Learn to swim.

 

[Ball Lightning]

Not going to happen, for 2 reasons.

Governments don't give a crap

Correct, which we need to fix and only the common people can do this.

80% of people dont give a crap.

Maybe in the older generation, but nearly everyone i know, and the general feeling at my school and beyond. I'd say no to this one. Maybe in other western countries, but they usaully don't care about others as much as i feel australians do.

 

[azzaman333]

Correct, which we need to fix and only the common people can do this.

Both major Australian political parties do nothing about the climate. I don't see this changing in the near future.

Maybe in the older generation, but nearly everyone i know, and the general feeling at my school and beyond. I'd say no to this one. Maybe in other western countries, but they usaully don't care about others as much as i feel australians do.

I've also noticed that more people my age care about GW than people older, but are really to young to make any real difference.

 

[Ball Lightning]

Both major Australian political parties do nothing about the climate. I don't see this changing in the near future.

I don't think so, if public pressure mounts (expecially with the Walk Against Warming which got 40,000 people in Melbourne alone to march happening 2 weeks before the election) then we have a good chance of convincing at least ONE of the parties.

I've also noticed that more people my age care about GW than people older, but are really to young to make any real difference.

I agree also, but there are ways for us to talk, including through the internet, marching, and getting your parents to be more environment friendly.

 

[BasketCase]

Which we did and still do to some degree, as we don't know all the factors and follow on effects from CO2 increase and CO2 from nature. But what we do know is that CO2 is going up faster then anyone expected and that ice is melting faster then anyone expected.

Right. Just as we knew that the hottest year in world history was 2005. And then we rather suddenly discover that we were reading the thermometer wrong.

Human error is an unavoidable wild card here, and must be accounted for. Now go check the gas spectrometer again, and make sure you didn't put it too close to your car while you idled the engine in order to warm up the heater for that drive to work.

If we stopped all CO2 output by 2050, then there is a large chance we will have prevented any major global warming, otherwise we are probably screwed.

Not possible. Ten percent of civilization's CO2 emissions come from human breathing.

 

[BasketCase]

Correct, which we need to fix and only the common people can do this.

Blargh. Here I go posting 43 posts in a row again.

Anyway, BL, the common people worldwide don't actually want to stop global warming. First and foremost, all those people want to catch up to the U.S. and have the living standard we have. Environment be damned. The only way you're going to stop Third World countries from trying to develop and industrialize is to nuke them off the face of the planet.

A lot of governments are currently pointing the finger at the U.S. and calling us the largest emitter at the moment, in the hope that the U.S. will bend over and take one in the wazoo so everybody else can industrialize at our expense. Not gonna happen.

 

[Bast]

Not possible. Ten percent of civilization's CO2 emissions come from human breathing.

What proof do you have for this statement?

 

[Bast]

Blargh. Here I go posting 43 posts in a row again.

Anyway, BL, the common people worldwide don't actually want to stop global warming. First and foremost, all those people want to catch up to the U.S. and have the living standard we have. Environment be damned. The only way you're going to stop Third World countries from trying to develop and industrialize is to nuke them off the face of the planet.

A lot of governments are currently pointing the finger at the U.S. and calling us the largest emitter at the moment, in the hope that the U.S. will bend over and take one in the wazoo so everybody else can industrialize at our expense. Not gonna happen.

When global warming hits, and it does, it hits all people in the world. Not just the US. India is getting floods, Australia is getting droughts and Africa is getting desertification. It's not about FAIR, it's about what NEEDS to be done. If we sit and point fingers we'll all go down and quickly.

The US also holds a vast majority of the world's wealth, we're not exactly going to say you better share it with us. Plus some countries are never going to catch up to living standards of US. Ever. Most people in the world just want to live their ordinary lives without fear of governments, crime and natural disasters brought on by global warming.

We owe this to ourselves. All of us.

 

[BasketCase]

What proof do you have for this statement?

Only my aw3s0m3 m4th sk1llZ.

I didn't get that factoid from anywhere else--I calculated it on my own. Here's what I did.

I looked up a few web sites to get the amount of CO2 the average person exhales every year. Then I multiplied that by the Earth's population--six billion--to estimate the amount of CO2 exhaled by the entire human race every year. Then I compared that against total human emissions from cars and factories and the like.

It's an estimate, and a fairly broad one. But it's close enough to demonstrate that a significant amount of CO2 comes not from human industry, but from human life, and that there's no way to completely eliminate anthropic CO2 emissions without exterminating most of the human race.

So, if humans are really causing global warming, then some degree of warming is unavoidable, and we're just going to have to deal with it.

Edit: Slow down, Bast, you sneaked another post in behind mine again.

 

[Bast]

But it's close enough to demonstrate that a significant amount of CO2 comes not from human industry, but from human life, and that there's no way to completely eliminate anthropic CO2 emissions without exterminating most of the human race.

So, if humans are really causing global warming, then some degree of warming is unavoidable, and we're just going to have to deal with it.

Edit: Slow down, Bast, you sneaked another post in behind mine again.

Since when is 10% a significant amount?

 

[BasketCase]

It's not about FAIR, it's about what NEEDS to be done.

Uhhh, yeah--that's the point I was trying to get across. The citizens of India and China and other industrializing nations NEED to industrialize in order to improve their living standards. They're not willing to live in poverty in order to save the planet. They want YOU to do it so THEY can live comfy.

The US also holds a vast majority of the world's wealth, we're not exactly going to say you better share it with us.

Actually, a lot of impoverished people and Third World governments have been saying exactly that.

So basically it all comes back down to the age-old human struggle: limited resources, unlimited human wants. Human beings struggle eternally for a bigger slice of the pie, and people are willing to kill for that bigger slice.

Remember that next time somebody pulls a knife on you and asks for your wallet and watch.