God I hate loyalty. Worst mechanic EVER.

[Troy Bruckner]

The three turn revolt is the mechanism that makes pillaging absurd.

BTW Quebec was thinking of trying to join the US when they voted on leaving Canada in the late 1990s.

 

[tedhebert]

BTW Quebec was thinking of trying to join the US when they voted on leaving Canada in the late 1990s.

As a citizen of Quebec that actually LIVED through these times, I find affirmations like this extremely insulting.

If you have anything to back this, I mean REAL proof, feel free to lay it out. Otherwise, please refrain from making utterly false accusations on a democratic
process that, while being somewhat hurtful for the Canadian citizens, was still executed in an extremely orderly fashion, politically and democratically.

The process was totally about Quebec becoming a country, not about joining the US...

 

[_Malachite_]

I actually like the idea of the loyalty mechanic, but I'm not really satisfied with its current application in the game. I would have preferred to have more political interaction with the disloyal city. Like the ability to bribe the city, or give them autonomy at the cost of like 33% of the city's production, or spread propaganda in it at the cost of a progressive amount of culture depending on the size of the population. Right now, I feel like I keep repeating the same exact moves in every single game to keep loyalty in check. I would have preferred to be able to deal with it according to how I built my civilization. I think that would have given that mechanic much needed depth and immersion.

 

[acluewithout]

I like the loyalty system a lot. But it does have three oddities.

First, big cities are less likely to rebel than small cities. Explain that to Catalan and Barcelona. Big cities should actually pull away more not less, at least if they are disaffected.

Second, Cities far from you capital don’t rebel because of distance. They only rebel if there’s another empire there that exert influence over them. Explain that to America. Colonies pull away because they are far from home and want self determination.

Third, capturing lots of Cities all at once leads to more stable loyalty rather than less. Explain that to someone who knows more about history and could come up with a good example. Or, maybe France in WW2. There should be a limit to how many cities you can digest at once before you conquer more. Rapid expansion should make holding cities harder not easier.

Like I said. I really like the loyalty system. It just needs some tweaking. I think captured cities should have reduced loyalty and amenities which decay over time after peace, plus a permanent vulnerability to Spies. The decay rate would also be slower the more captured cities you have, so grabbing a large number of cities is hard.

Colonial cities breaking away is harder, because there’s already too many disincentives to colonial cities. I don’t really have a solution for that one.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

In general I also like loyalty but would agree that it still isn't perfect, especially because it encourages total war and therefore makes military snowballing more optimal than ever.

Having said that, and to counter the idea that loyalty somehow ruins colonization, in a recent standard sized TSL game, all of us were spread across Eurasia and Africa, with no civs in the Americas. When I discovered America and found that no one had managed to colonize it, I switched focus to cranking out settlers and grabbing that tasty bit of land before anyone else could get there to make loyalty difficult for me. It turned into the scramble for the Americas as 3 or 4 of us fought for as much space as possible without actually going to war, it was a lot of fun.

 

[NorthernPalmyra]

which governor is best equipped to deal with loyalty problems in captured cities?

 

[Tech Osen]

which governor is best equipped to deal with loyalty problems in captured cities?

Victor can add +4 to surrounding cities, that goes on top of any other governors you have in those surrounding cities.
With the Ottomans he makes a nice team with Ibrahim. They both can move to another city in 3 turns instead of 5.

 

[NorthernPalmyra]

Victor can add +4 to surrounding cities, that goes on top of any other governors you have in those surrounding cities.
With the Ottomans he makes a nice team with Ibrahim. They both can move to another city in 3 turns instead of 5.

thanks! thatswhat I needed to know victor only takes 3 turns to establish himself which is another major plus point

 

[_ViKinG_]

I habe disabled loyalty. Just annoying for me to. Its better without on the map i play on anyway

 

[Sagax]

thanks! thatswhat I needed to know victor only takes 3 turns to establish himself which is another major plus point

Loyalty pressure from the Governors is applied immediately upon assignment - you don’t need to wait for them to finish the travel.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

As a citizen of Quebec that actually LIVED through these times, I find affirmations like this extremely insulting.

If you have anything to back this, I mean REAL proof, feel free to lay it out. Otherwise, please refrain from making utterly false accusations on a democratic
process that, while being somewhat hurtful for the Canadian citizens, was still executed in an extremely orderly fashion, politically and democratically.

The process was totally about Quebec becoming a country, not about joining the US...

I don't think anyone ever thought it was a major movement, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_51

I'll agree that "quebec was thinking of . . ." was is a major exaggeration. Maybe that was a very negligible temporary loyalty pressure there, like -0.5 for a turn or something.

The more (still outlandish but still marginally more reasonable) speculation I ever read was that if Quebec ever were to secede then the Maritime Provinces might be interested in being part of New England instead, only because of geography and being separated from the rest of the nation. I don't believe any of these cases could/should happen though.

 

[NorthernPalmyra]

Loyalty pressure from the Governors is applied immediately upon assignment - you don’t need to wait for them to finish the travel.

Thanks so Victor is the man for bringing cities into line or can promotions improve the other governers?

 

[Sagax]

Thanks so Victor is the man for bringing cities into line or can promotions improve the other governers?

And Amani, but smaller effect. Both of them need promotions for this, though.

All other default governors only provide the standard +8 Loyalty in the assigned city.

 

[vetiver]

I actually think the game feels much smoother and more logical to play with the new loyalty mechanic. Great addition to the game!

 

[tedhebert]

I don't think anyone ever thought it was a major movement, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_51

I'll agree that "quebec was thinking of . . ." was is a major exaggeration. Maybe that was a very negligible temporary loyalty pressure there, like -0.5 for a turn or something.

The more (still outlandish but still marginally more reasonable) speculation I ever read was that if Quebec ever were to secede then the Maritime Provinces might be interested in being part of New England instead, only because of geography and being separated from the rest of the nation. I don't believe any of these cases could/should happen though.

Thanks I'd never heard of them...

and yes, lol, major exageration is the word. That gained as much favor as communism or marxism ever lifts up in Canada... which is none !

Interesting read still...

 

[HermannLombard]

The capital has double. Once raw and once modified.

Settling on -20... Hunt sic draconis helps as your city starts with 3 pop.
Basically you will have -20 pop pressure against you
Governor +6.

Just take their cities with ships if so inclined..

Two questions: in some posts I see "Governor +6" and in someone else's I see "Governor +8" (which doesn't appear to involve cards), is it +6?.

What do you mean about the ships?

 

[steveg700]

Nobody likes a smart ass.

Well, without sarcasm I will say that the loyalty system is one of the few new systems in Civ VI that work pretty well.

Loyalty pressure only goes to -20, so if your city is going to flip in three turns while you're in a golden age, then it's not really up for grabs with your current setup. Must be a 1 pop city. Use the loyalty filter to see how much pressure is on it.

The three things you can do in preparation are:
1) Place a governor.
2) Choose loyalty-generating policy cards (like one for having a garrisoned unit).
3) Boost population rapidly. Harvest jungles or marshes, set up domestic trade routes, specialize the city for food.

Thing is, I got PO'ed about the loyalty system's lack of tools for a while, but now I settle cities with -20 loyalty without too much hassle. If anything, I now find it too easy to subvert.

 

[Victoria]

Two questions: in some posts I see "Governor +6" and in someone else's I see "Governor +8" (which doesn't appear to involve cards), is it +6?.

What do you mean about the ships?

It is +8, I may have done a typo in one of mine, I would not be surprised.
EDIT: Just found the post and corrected, thanks.

Re ships I just mean (as a big naval player) that taking cities with ships is normally taking candy from babies so why bother with settling.

 

[Onii-chan]

I'm struggling to see how keeping a conquered city can be *that* difficult unless you a) conquer something far away from the rest of your empire, or b) it's just a small city still surrounded by a plethora of bigger enemy cities. Normally if you declare war on your neighbour and just take the nearest cities one at a time, move your governors over asap, garrison one of your units, maybe buy a monument... that's all it usually takes to keep ahold of it, even on higher difficulties

Loyalty is a good mechanic I think. It prevents cheesy forward settling and enables a form of passive aggression that was sorely needed in the vanilla game, and it ties nicely into some of the other mechanics of the game such as amenities, religion and more

 

[NukeAJS]

Once you get the hang of it, it's really easy to avoid cities flipping so quickly. There are several ways to avoid it and some might seems counter-intuitive (like you should take the larger not smaller city). It requires just a bit of forethought. The good news is that once you get the hang of it, the loyalty mechanic can quite easily work in favor of the conqueror. If you're able to grab a very large city with an entertainment district (it seems the AI often build entertainment districts in large cities and that makes sense) and there are four size 5ish cities around it ... just plop Amani in the large city, run bread and circuses, and laugh manically as all four flip to you while your army goes and beats up on someone else.

Because of the loyalty mechanic, people don't really see that Eleanor is actually a quite strong WARMONGER starting in the mid game. Basically, take a city with an art museum, load it up with works of art, plop Amani, build an entertainment district, run bread and circuses and then laugh manically. With Eleanor, this can often have a ripple effect because a city with a theater/entertainment district will flip allowing you to fill that new city up with works of art which puts even more loyalty pressure on surrounding cities which flips another city with a theater/entertainment district ... ad infinitum.