Going for Gold: Promotions

[Txurce]

Immune to city damage, not the units around it blasting the ship. That's always my problem. Maybe Gloryhounds should offer 33% cover vs land units, which now that I think about it is a really good idea.

33% might be too much -- as is, my melee ships get two punches before healing. But the basic concept is a good one.

 

[ElliotS]

33% might be too much -- as is, my melee ships get two punches before healing. But the basic concept is a good one.

My thought was that 100% gold on hit and 25% cover seemed a tad underwhelming for a t4 promotion, though I think it would be fine if you could get cover 1 on all ships. (Or at least all melee ships) though probably no cover 2.

 

[Stalker0]

My thought was that 100% gold on hit and 25% cover seemed a tad underwhelming for a t4 promotion, though I think it would be fine if you could get cover 1 on all ships. (Or at least all melee ships) though probably no cover 2.

Do we really need to make melee ships stronger though? Many in the thread seem to think melee is doing well.

If we are going to increase gloryhounds, I like the idea of adding in gold on kills. The ships don’t get objectively stronger but definitely get a nicer more flexible T4 promotion

 

[ElliotS]

Do we really need to make melee ships stronger though? Many in the thread seem to think melee is doing well.

If we are going to increase gloryhounds, I like the idea of adding in gold on kills. The ships don’t get objectively stronger but definitely get a nicer more flexible T4 promotion

I think melee ships that go boarding party are okay, but city attack has been very underwhelming for me. (And I'm a guy who goes Drill more than Shock.)

 

[Owlbebach]

I think melee ships that go boarding party are okay, but city attack has been very underwhelming for me. (And I'm a guy who goes Drill more than Shock.)

Funny thing is that i was much more satisfied with Naval Drill than with usual Drill. However i tend to go 75% Boarding Party and 25% Coastal Raiders because Raider-promoted ships just can't live on the battlefield. They die too fast

 

[Stalker0]

However i tend to go 75% Boarding Party and 25% Coastal Raiders because Raider-promoted ships just can't live on the battlefield. They die too fast

This I will agree with. Naval Melee ships are more binary than land ones. A 3 drill unit can go against a 3 shock unit and vice versa. In open ground the 3 shock will definitely be stronger, but its not night and day.

On the water its a different story. A 3 Boarding Party is a nightmare to a 3 Coastal Raider....it will absolutely slaughter them, especially once you have a fleet of 4 plus. That is not a bad thing per say, but it does make Coastal Raider a specialty promotion. You can't send a fleet of coastal raiders on the water without support.....if the enemy sends boarding ships after you, you will die very fast.

 

[Owlbebach]

Another way to look at the <50/>50 promotion lines is that the last 50 hp on a unit is more valuable than the first 50hp.
- Going the >50 hp line means you will do more damage
- Going the <50 hp line means you will kill more units
I think it's fine at 50

Going the <65 HP line means you kill even more units, isn't it?. Are you afraid that <65 HP line will become too strong? (no, it will not)

Wounded units die easier AND deal less damage. Unit that has 20HP or less has to retreat not only because it is going to die soon, but also because it is almost useless on the battlefield. It means that the treshold between "being a unit" and "not being a unit" is actually at 20HP, not at 0HP.
There is almost zero difference between killing a unit and damaging it to 20 HP. In fact in many cases it is better NOT to kill wounded unit because healing it takes more time than building a new one.

I think 60 or 65 is the right number. 70 would be too strong because double shot

 

[CppMaster]

Wounded units die easier AND deal less damage. Unit that has 20HP or less has to retreat not only because it is going to die soon, but also because it is almost useless on the battlefield. It means that the treshold between "being a unit" and "not being a unit" is actually at 20HP, not at 0HP.
There is almost zero difference between killing a unit and damaging it to 20 HP. In fact in many cases it is better NOT to kill wounded unit because healing it takes more time than building a new one.

Are you kidding? I absolutely prefer to escape a unit from battlefield to heal it, so I can use production for sth else and to keep promotions. Also you gain yield from kills if you have authority.
For me there is more difference between dead unit and 20 hp than 20 hp and full hp.

 

[Txurce]

Are you kidding? I absolutely prefer to escape a unit from battlefield to heal it, so I can use production for sth else and to keep promotions. Also you gain yield from kills if you have authority.
For me there is more difference between dead unit and 20 hp than 20 hp and full hp.

I think he meant for the AI, whose units tend to start with more promotions, and usually earn less.

 

[tu_79]

Are you kidding? I absolutely prefer to escape a unit from battlefield to heal it, so I can use production for sth else and to keep promotions. Also you gain yield from kills if you have authority.
For me there is more difference between dead unit and 20 hp than 20 hp and full hp.

True, but depends. When you aim for a city, it's better to have the AI healing its wounded units so they don't meddle between your army and the city you want to take. If you kill the units, in a couple of turns you'll face a fresh unit again. If you don't kill them, they have to retreat, heal and come back. Also, during long wars, supply limit lowers limiting how many units can be produced, so if you kill their units they can produce fresh units again.
It's true that it's more efficient to heal those units production wise, but you risk your city in doing so.

 

[Owlbebach]

Are you kidding? I absolutely prefer to escape a unit from battlefield to heal it, so I can use production for sth else and to keep promotions. Also you gain yield from kills if you have authority.
For me there is more difference between dead unit and 20 hp than 20 hp and full hp.

Not kidding because you misunderstood me. I meant what i wrote, not what you thought i wrote and this was exactly "being usefull on the battlefield". Healing unit is a great idea, but unfortunately unit that is being healed can't fight D: Moreover it occupies tile and when you have many units it is always tricky to get it away from the frontline

 

[CppMaster]

Not kidding because you misunderstood me. I meant what i wrote, not what you though iwrote and this was exactly "being usefull on the battlefield". Healing unit is a great idea, but unfortunately unit that is being healed can't fight D: Moreover it occupies tile and when you have many units it is always tricky to get it away from the frontline

Ok, but still AI have to use a unit to kill damaged one, so it does not do other action like move or attack your other units. Also they provide ZoC and promotion effects like medic. They can plunder tiles and kill civilians and great people regardless of how much HP they have.

 

[Owlbebach]

Ok, but still AI have to use a unit to kill damaged one, so it does not do other action like move or attack your other units. Also they provide ZoC and promotion effects like medic. They can plunder tiles and kill civilians and great people regardless of how much HP they have.

Okay you are right in that, but please take a look at my proposal again;D I actually propose buffing Barrage, so everything you said will work even better or at least remain the same

 

[CppMaster]

Okay you are right in that, but please take a look at my proposal again;D I actually propose buffing Barrage, so everything you said will work even better or at least remain the same

Ok, 65 HP threshold might be good, I don't have a strong opinion on it though.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think with 65 hp threshold it'll turn the other way around, with accuracy only working for 1 shot, and barrage unit for the other 2. Barrage has 5% more damage to its threshold, which also is something.

 

[chicorbeef]

Why don't we try 60 HP for now?

 

[Gazebo]

I don't intend to touch the above/below 50 stuff, as it's a knock-on effect throughout a lot of other routines.

G

 

[Owlbebach]

I don't intend to touch the above/below 50 stuff, as it's a knock-on effect throughout a lot of other routines.

You mean those values are used somewhere else or what?

 

[Gazebo]

You mean those values are used somewhere else or what?

It's embedded in the tacticalAI as well. It's a non-starter.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think it's balanced anyway, Barrage has 10% bonus damage if criteria met rather than just 5% and Logistics is better than +Range