Good Unique Units Discussion

[Miles Teg]

Siphais prolong cavalry's effective life span, but if you beeline to MT, then all your going to face is pikemen and musketmen. Things go badly after your enemy gets rifles, but by that time you should be able to steamroll them with the bodies of your former enemies.

Basically Siphais make fast effective attackers when you normally have nothing, But are redundant in cavalry's golden age. Cossacks function as two or three cavalry in the era where they can steamroll opposition.

Oh, I forgot Military Leaders. If your Cossacks are all veteran (If not, your an idiot.) then they promote to elite the first time they kill two units in one turn. So, you take a heavily defended city, promoting 10 Cossacks (I play on Emperor- Demi God). You have a roughly 60% chance of a leader from that battle. 20 cities left. Do the math.

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

1) NEVER beeline for MT because you miss a bunch of other goodies along the way.
2)Cossacks almost make up for the 2 atk with the increased chances of making MGLs, and by extension, armies full of beeky cossacks ready to kill or die fighting rifles. But in the end I still prefer Sipahis, plus the Ottomans have good civ traits, but that's a different story.

 

[Miles Teg]

1. I start the game with the only tech advance I need to know. I call it the "Pointy Stick". It gives free advances when you win wars! As far as I'm concerned, Military Tradition grants the entire upper half of the medieval tech tree for free. And in the mean time, it 's not that dangerous to trade techs if the AI has no gold to upgrade with.

2. The Siphai's shines during the mid industrial, when you normally have no good offensive unit. It's still a marginal unit for that era. The Cossack however, gives the perfect bonus for the pre-rifle era. Mor attack is redundant, more attacks is incredible. And when the Rifle Era dawns, you have a stack of armies, and if you slow down your advance you can use Cannons/arty. Let's not forget you can get you Cossack stack rolling faster than a Siphai stack. 20 shields sooner.

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

1)What if the AI isn't as advanced as you? I always balance my research, so I take China because their fast Riders are the Sipahis of their time, so I can leisurely stroll through the middle ages getting J.S. Bach's Cathedral and stuff like that to keep my populace happy, promoting WLtK days, which in turn speed up research times.
2)True, but riflemen are so defensively powerful (plus terrain&fortify&city bonuses) that they will severely weaken an attacking army, so I just don't bother and kill them with crudloads of cavalry/sipahis, sometimes cannons. But if artillery is used in coalition with armies, then you've got a war machine .

 

[Globex]

Massive reserve of settlers, ICS farms, big military ... That looks like an already won game, with or without panzers. Panzers will just help you to finish it faster. Early UUs will more likely change the course of the game.

I know that the panzer is not the most powerful unit in the game and that you don't NEED panzers to win but, they make conquest more fun!

 

[civverguy]

I think the Mounted Warrior and Rider are useful.

 

[Miles Teg]

Riders are a better UU then Siphais. You'll get no argument from me there. I'd say if the AI is behind, Go for a conquest victory before they catch up!

If you've beelined for MT you should:

Have destroyed at least one, probably two neighbors, maybe even three neighbors.
Be in a golden age and pumping out even more cossacks and cannons.
Stopped tech trading after you have cavalry. From then on you conquer tech, not research or trade.

Siohai come on line slower, and there 2 extra attack point are simply overkill. I'd say that Siphais are better on a 1:1 basis, but it wont be 1:1. It will be 1:3.

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

You're right that Riders are a better UU than Sipahis, but the advantage about Sipahis is that they rarely need artillery just after their creation to destroy units, their extra attack does the job well.

 

[Lord_Megahertz]

You're right that Riders are a better UU than Sipahis, but the advantage about Sipahis is that they rarely need artillery just after their creation to destroy units, their extra attack does the job well.

True, but with all those stupid civ3 defensive bonuses, rifleman can easily destroy sipahis and cavalry

 

[Newbie civer]

my fav UU would be the mounted warrior with an extra attack then the horseman plus the 2 movement it is really good and it comes to me when a good bit of wars starts and stays for a good part of the early game and will hlep get a fairly good hold over it all

 

[bustedsynapses]

After reading all these things on UU, I decided to try using the Mounted Warrior. Dear God, it was the easiest game I've ever played. I'm just out of the ancient era on a big continent, and I've almost overrun it. The biggest problem I face in Civ3 is the danged barbarians. I'm sore plagued by them every game. I'll be fighting 2-3 civs, while fending off 2-3 barbar camps at a time in the lusy terrain around me. But the Mounted Warriors are just deadly against the Barbs, rarely taking even a hit, much less a loss. I used the barbs for a training ground, as well as a cottage industry, getting the 25 gold every 6-8 turns. I very soon had all these elite MWs. Is tacked them with a few Cats and Spears, and took one town after another. In another several turns, I'll have wiped out my 2nd civ and will have close to forty towns/cities, and I'm still in Monarchy! Almost too easy!

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

@Lord_Megahertz

Generally the AI is slightly behind you technologically, so they probably will still have mostly muskets, pikes, and maybe a few rifles, but sipahis liquidate them easily enough.

@bustedsynapses

As soon as they reach the medieval age they'll start using pikes and you will have to use knights, so I don't play MWs on large maps because they're too short-lived.

EDIT:I wrote the wrong word.

 

[Aabraxan]

As soon as they reach the medieval age they'll start using pikes and you will have to use knights, so I don't play MWs on small maps because they're too short-lived.

Small maps? Seems like you could just crush everyone on a small map, esp. pangea, with MWs. Seems to me that large maps would be more problematic.

 

[Lord_Megahertz]

@ DOMINATRIX

True, but the mid industrial age has a lot of rifleman, which can really massacre sipahis

 

[ecuwins]

Small maps? Seems like you could just crush everyone on a small map, esp. pangea, with MWs. Seems to me that large maps would be more problematic.

Mounted Warriors pwn the ancient times. But what DOMINATRIX says is true, faced with pikes you may want knights or at least MI. Muskets?..you say? You better have knights, trebs, MI, and a pike/musket or two thrown in there. The thing is the AI will usually not touch a big stack of artillery that has plenty defense stacked with it. The main force beelines the target while the 'fast units' skirmish and hit targets of opportunity. I do admit I am just repeating what has been said on this forum <infinity> times.

 

[Tortosa]

The great thing about these mentioned cavalry-replacement UUs is that they're around, for the most part, for the rest of the game (at least until there's enough MAs or tanks). The Hittite chariot, on the other hand, might be a really nice unit at the time but by the time I built four or five they were obsolete. Cavalry are one of the most valuable units for the amount of time you need to use them, and any UU add-on to them is gravy.

 

[Snarkhunter]

@ DOMINATRIX

True, but the mid industrial age has a lot of rifleman, which can really massacre sipahis

? I don't follow this. 8 to 6 should be the same as 4 to 3. Defender gets the usual bonuses, for which the cure is a massive stack of whatever you have as arty--and don't let the AI do the same to you (they won't use arty, but will use a flock of attackers, if they have 'em). I would think you need infantry to put a dent in sipahis, and even then, a SOD should still be able to take it to the infantry until their numbers build up.

I'm just now using sipahis for the first time: triggered a GA the turn before I got them available, an almost pefect combination. Those 20 turns let me generate a big sipahi force, correct a few infrastructure problems, & get to 4-turn research. It's been a huge help.

kk

 

[Aabraxan]

Mounted Warriors pwn the ancient times. But what DOMINATRIX says is true, faced with pikes you may want knights or at least MI. Muskets?..you say? You better have knights, trebs, MI, and a pike/musket or two thrown in there. The thing is the AI will usually not touch a big stack of artillery that has plenty defense stacked with it. The main force beelines the target while the 'fast units' skirmish and hit targets of opportunity. I do admit I am just repeating what has been said on this forum <infinity> times.

Oh, I understand all that. Perhaps I didn't explain my confusion very well. But your first sentence is my point. Why would MWs go obsolete too soon on small maps? I'll be the first to admit that I've never played a small pangea, but here's my thinking: On a small pangea, your opponents (or at the very least, your immediate neighbors) would be lucky to survive long enough to build pikes. Large maps would be a different question, and, obviously, difficulty level plays a role.

 

[RodRiGoM]

For multiplayer, stronger UUs are:

1- Impi. Kickass spearman, 2 move. You can't beat it. Sadly zulus aren't agri, so you can't really kill everyone

2- Jaguar warrior. Sneaky. 2 move, resourceless unit. You can get 20 jaguars by the time your enemy build his 4th city. No one can deffend

3- Enkidu warrior. Great for deffense/expansion and to choke (kill slowly). But u can't surprise kill someone and you have to stay focused on ur enemy.

4- War Chariot. 100 Chariots at turn 60 can kill like any enemy if he isn't expecting you.

 

[anaxagoras]

I'm catching up on this thread and came upon this, which I just had to address:

1) NEVER beeline for MT because you miss a bunch of other goodies along the way.

I strongly disagree with this assessment, at least for any conquest/domination game. If your focus is military, you don't really need any of the "goodies" in the top half of the tech tree in the Middle Ages, and you should be able to get most of them via trade, anyway. Furthermore, the sooner you get to MT, the sooner you get cavalry, and the sooner you can take them to the enemy. The maximizes the time you have fighting muskets and knights (or even MDI and pikes), rather than riflemen. Of course, cavalry can still take on riflemen, but wouldn't you rather attack at nearly 2:1 odds, rather than at slightly below even?

Early cavalry can spell the end of the line for the hapless AI.

It is different if you are playing for a cultural victory or space race. In those cases, you need to get to Education and beyond so you can ramp up the research. But in a military-focused game it always make sense to get to the battlefield firstest, with the mostest and the bestest.