gosh, I just realize l've spent 25 min of my life on moving my troop to start a war

That said, I don't understand how you can actually be aware that the game is continually forcing these short pauses on you and think it's fine. At least, your tone gives me the impression you think it's fine, rather than something you resignedly put up with.
No, it is not fine. I turn it off.

does my tone have to be nasty to dislike something?
.....
If I do not like something I will avoid it rather than put up with it.
I like fighting wars, am an old table topper hexgame player but dislike the war in civ 6 soo much I just avoid it. I do not understand how a lot of people flame about it but still play it
 
If they at least fixed the unit cycling and pathing, I'd go from -2 amenities to -1.

Improve a bit the AI and stop AI religious spam (block religious units without open borders, or give me a way to destroy them without going to war or founding a religion), and I'd go to 0 amenities.

Give me a unified and decent trade route screen (maybe and desirably coupled with a deal and diplomatic screen), and production queuing, and I'd go to +1 amenities.
 
I don't know about Aztecs, but you ~could say that similar battle at Thermopylae caused mighty Xerxes to rage quit his campaign as well.

Entirely off topic, but that's not what happened. Xerxes won Thermopylae, moved on to the rest of greece, and burnt Athens to the ground.
 
Entirely off topic, but that's not what happened. Xerxes won Thermopylae, moved on to the rest of greece, and burnt Athens to the ground.

Uhm yeah, he didn't really rage quit either.. although he did later retreat with bulk of his army, and by the years end the campaign to extend Persian empire into Europe on which his father embarked was ended for good. I think it fitted well and was pretty accurate (especially compared to the popular culture surrounding that battle.)

Anyway, my point was that we all have different play-styles and expectations. I feel that attitude makes a difference, people who min-max and just need something awesome to happen at the push of the button, aren't enjoying it as much as others as mentioned in this thread (for example).
 
Last edited:
No, it is not fine. I turn it off.

does my tone have to be nasty to dislike something?
.....
If I do not like something I will avoid it rather than put up with it.
I like fighting wars, am an old table topper hexgame player but dislike the war in civ 6 soo much I just avoid it. I do not understand how a lot of people flame about it but still play it

Sorry, but you're not turning off 1000-5000+ extra inputs (defined as inputs that a decent UI would allow you to avoid while doing identical actions) per game no matter how hard you try. That's comparing if you put Civ 4's general UI conventions into 6 without changing any of the civ 6 mechanics! Civ 4's had lots of room for improvement...and I'm probably lowballing the input estimate.

Mods can help, but you really need someone who knows what they're doing with UI design to make this work well in the game. If Firaxis has such a person, that person was either not put on the civ 6 team or was shackled out of being able to perform his/her job.

Anyway, my point was that we all have different play-styles and expectations. I feel that attitude makes a difference, people who min-max and just need something awesome to happen at the push of the button

Talk about some overgeneralized categorization and straw!

A demand for reasonable UI has nothing to do with min/maxing and is tangentially related at best. That some people find a way to enjoy the game in spite of the gross negligence on this aspect of the game doesn't change the reality that it's sub-par and occasionally broken outright by any objective measurement you could come up with. That's not "okay", and I'm not okay with people condoning it because doing so is irrational.
 
In a game that's part of a series where managing 40 cities in seconds without heaps of popups and hidden information has already been done, this kind of regression is pathetic. Not just bad, pathetic, knowing this game's incentive will lead players to 20+ cities.

Are you sure there isn't method in their "madness" i.e. what If leading players to 20+ cities was their goal, wouldn't your comment look foolish then?

That some people find a way to enjoy the game in spite of the gross negligence on this aspect of the game doesn't change the reality that it's sub-par and occasionally broken outright by any objective measurement you could come up with. That's not "okay", and I'm not okay with people condoning it because doing so is irrational.

Despite the vast popularity of enhanced UI here, whose code is readily available to everyone, most of those changes are rarely integrated into the game. And while it is possible that they with their fancy degrees, experience and usage hard data, are all pathetic, negligent, fools compared to you.. is it possible that you don't see the whole picture for the "objective" measurement of yours?

p.s. personally, I prefer more detailed UI and have always used UI mods here. Nor am I suggesting that the current UI can't be or shouldn't be improved -- an unfortunately necessary note.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but you're not turning off 1000-5000+ extra inputs
I was replying to the automatic next unit interface, so you are right. I am not turning off 1000-5000+ extra inputs.
For those more complex I just have assessed my own workarounds and am very happy with the game overall.
I can fully understand someone else being unhappy with the game, it is not perfect by any means and they are allowed to vent. and often they do.

I just like turn based strategy games and I like the context of Civ and can cope. I know complaining here is not going to change anything.
Equally when I just want to kill something I'll play Tanki or Dota so my bloodlust is appeased elsewhere.
 
Are you sure there isn't method in their "madness" i.e. what If leading players to 20+ cities was their goal, wouldn't your comment look foolish then?

? My implication is that the game's incentives *obviously* push the player to 20+ cities, and presumably the developers know that (hence their lack of attention to basic conventions being pathetic).

The alternative is that the developers did not intend the mechanics to push the player into having tons of cities. That...would arguably reflect even worse, and not on me.

Despite the vast popularity of enhanced UI here, whose code is readily available to everyone, most of those changes are rarely integrated into the game. And while it is possible that they with their fancy degrees, experience and usage hard data, are all pathetic, negligent, fools compared to you.. is it possible that you don't see the whole picture for the "objective" measurement of yours?

They're not the only ones with fancy degrees, and unless they have degrees in specific things that are *not* programming, those degrees will do less to aid in interpreting data. The developers are human beings too, prone to the same potentials for success and failure as anybody else.

There's a reason you don't see me calling out the music or artstyle. There is a reason I haven't pointed fingers much at 1 UPT as a concept, split tech trees, districts, or wonders (after pre-release speculation). There is a reason I don't come down nearly as hard on the AI insufficiencies as I do the game's optimization and controls, despite the AI insufficiency strangely being the most common complaint on the board.

That reason is evidence. I give Firaxis the "pathetic" tag for UI because 1) UI is something many games get right, despite a wide range of budget constraints. 2) TBS as a genre was ahead of civ 6's UI 20 years ago. 3) Firaxis itself put out a superior UI in a previous title by any objective standard set you can use, 10 years ago.

Right now, I am playing Rimworld. Rimworld is mostly programmed by one person, and it's in alpha. Rimworld has vastly superior UI to Civ 6, because a) it doesn't lie to the player about what will happen b) it does not deny as many gameplay rules to the player c) it more clearly represents how to accomplish something you want to do and d) it does not mire the player in large numbers of unnecessary inputs.

I won't name-call Firaxis as "fools", but I will happily point out that this aspect of the game is not only negligent, but grossly negligent and obviously deprioritized. You want me to buy that Firaxis put in solid market research about how to best implement its user interface, measured how people react to the game when presented differences? That they have a realistic, evidence-based measure of which aspects of its design keep users focused on the gameplay? That they even bothered with a metric like "inputs per turn" or "inputs per average task" or "inputs per ANYTHING"? How about a measure of accessibility of information? If they even gave a crap about accessibility information, they wouldn't have gameplay rules (WW) and even the specifics of pushing a victory condition (culture) hidden outright in a release version. There's no 3rd option I'm seeing presented here. They either didn't care about this stuff, or they did care but were sufficiently incompetent to completely neglect the implementation regardless. I'm erring on the side of "didn't care", given apparent market incentives. The latter is more effortful and fits more poorly with the evidence.

I will buy that they're using knowledge from "degrees and experience" to control for quality of these things if I see evidence for it. The evidence I've seen so far is against the notion that they've even bothered. As for "experience", that only matters if it's successful experience. Firaxis hasn't put out a competent UI in its TBS side of things in a decade, so where's that "experience"? The strongest evidence in favor of what I'm saying is the state of civ 6 as measured above when compared to many TBS over the past 2-3 decades.

I'm not sure what "usage hard data" means, you probably meant to say "use hard data", as if hard data pulled from gameplay can easily give feedback about UI.
 
You're talking about the movement rate per game turn -- the main topic of the thread is movement rate per real life time.

What?

Rate of movement per game turn is part of this discussion.


From the OP:
The new movement cost system plus the lack of promotion for the units to move faster through forested or hilly tiles make this game VERY slow. What makes this even worse is that there seems to be more forests/rainforests/hills in civ6.

Even if you were correct, which you aren't, you don't see the relationship?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom