1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

GOTM-02: First Spoiler:

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. morofski

    morofski Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    I had won a game on epic noble level as the Russians just a few days before playing this so I had had a little more practice than some people. I stuck London 1 square North of the starting position and this seemed to be paying off as I had more woodland and an extra hill within the city boundaries. This made it a little more useable as a production facility. I managed to get the Collossus and the Great Lighthouse built there without too much fuss from the other Civs.

    But I made some stupid errors throughout the game that I think add up to just cost me the game on the final stretch (I was a few space ship parts behind the Americans at the end of the game). The lack of horses was a problem throughout history and without a permanent source of a mobile attack force, I tended to play defencively. I was quite sloppy with some of my city positions too. I went for the stone quarry in the desert for York and I still kinda stand by that move, but it was still quite a gambit that cost a lot of other postions.

    First I wasted more units than was necessary in taking down a barbarian city (sending forces of 4 or 5 thinking "that'll be enough to take them on" and watching them get cut down in the forest). A sneak attack by the Aztecs that I only just survived woke me up to the fact that I was large but weak. I consolidated, building up my defences and frontline culture, grabbing Taoism and Islam as religions to call my own.

    When Saladin looked technologically weak, I picked off a few of his cities just so that Lincoln and Mansa Musa (my Northern for the most part friendly neighbours) didn't get any ideas that I was a pushover. I then had another campaign against the Spanish that won me few friends in the International community but did secure my borders further. For a while I was the largest civ after that.

    Just as I was attempting to catch up in the industrial era, Saladin who I had written off blasted his way through my borders and annexed an important cultural city with cavalry and I realised the war in his mind had never finished. It took machine guns and infantry to flush him out and then I took Baghdad just to be sure that he would never be a threat again. All this cost me dear in resources that should have been spent on beefing my productive forces ready for the final space ship rush. So I reached the end of history as a runner up in the space race.
     
  2. suspendinlight

    suspendinlight Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Urbana, IL
    Well I'm at about 1700 AD now so I'm not sure how far to discuss. I'm actually not surprised that so many people lost because I thought this map was hard in the beginning stages and I usually play on Prince and sometimes on Monarch when I want to lose.

    My start was pretty rough. I didn't really go for military techs right away, figuring that I was not going for conquest. I founded York in the river valley down by the gems to the south of London. My next couple of cities swept out an arc to the right because I had some weird idea that a lakes map was a "flat earth" map. I thought the border was to my east so I was going to form a quarter circle line of cities to the east and then use the edge of the map as my eastern border. This would allow me to fill in the interior lands with cities at my leisure. I was in for a surprise when I later discovered that the earth was round and my plans were foiled.

    In terms of warfare, the Spanish surprise attacked my westernmost city during the Classical age. I had a lone City Garrison III archer defending and he managed to turn back an axeman, a spearman, and two archers who sneak attacked. After that, they sent a few chariots which I promptly destroyed and then gave me some money for peace. The rest of the game went peacefully for a while...but I don't want to talk too far ahead into the future.

    In terms of infrastructure, I thought at the beginning that I was going to go for a space race victory, so I pumped cottages and tech improvements. Initially, I was running 50-80% tech most of the time. The real key for me was rushing to Alphabet and trading like mad long into the Renaissance to keep up. Slowly my vast expanses of cottages started to pay off and my tech rate has been running 90% for a while. My army was purely defensive and still pretty weak so I was lucky I was not attacked by a serious enemy in the ancient through Renaissance. I missed every religion except Islam and missed all of the ancient wonders until the Great Library. This was a game of many near misses though. I missed the Oracle, the Taj Mahal, Christianity, and Confucianism by one or two turns...

    Also, did anyone else think this map was shield-poor?
    Other notes:
    -Never built a mounted unit
    -Never took a state religion
     
  3. LoneWolf5050

    LoneWolf5050 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I don't remember what my score was, but it was a similar experience. I had four cities at one point (including one I had conquered from the Barbarians a fair bit west of the starting location. But then I lost two cities to Barbarians (they razed one), reconquered the one they didn't raze, rebuilt the other one, but by then the Americans were attacking, and the Barbarians hadn't given up and then to top it off Saladin came knocking too.

    I have won standard games on Monarch and completed an Emperor game in OK fashion but didn't win. I was psyched for a great game on Prince, but taking a few too many risks with expansion and Barbarians really hosed me this time!

    --Julian
     
  4. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    1 AD QSC (As DaveMcW suggested
    ) in
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=150462


    stats:

    Score:
    502
    126 Pop ==>21 8 in London 5 York, 5 Jute, 3 Nottingham
    158 Land
    153 Tech: All ancient - Horse, metal casting (reasearching) add Math and CoL
    65 Wonders: Oracle and Stonehenge

    Units:
    5 Workers 0 lost
    8 Archers built 6 killed 0 lost
    3 Warriors built 16 killed 1 lost (I build 3 got one from hut)
    2 Axemen build 1 killed 0 lost (many more of these comming as the barbs have them now.
    I think all wins were vs barbs mostly suiciding vs my fortified archers :lol:

    I would say at this point in the game the Net of fortified archers is crucial, on hills and in forests, to be back up by axemen which is what I am currently doing.
    My only hole at the moment is in the North West Corner, (which i exactly where the axe produced in York is going.) See attached images

    The south (mostly visible to Izzy, West, and east are covered. North is not as important as London can see to the Ice

    I thinks that's it.
    1 AD isn't praticularly a momunetal point in my game :( , These are: :D
    Part 1
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3539115&postcount=15
    Part 2
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3539307&postcount=19
     
  5. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    High Mods :)
    How far Can I go? I guess I am confused because what if you can finish your game before the appearance of any new age resources? Edit: The gap from Iron working to Coal...or any others is very big especially on epic, domination)

    I.E. if I happen to do this can I post right until my victory? (or defeat :( )

    Although I'm excited to post more....I am going to stop at part 2 until I know the cutoff
    (perhaps a date?)

    Thank you :)
     
  6. AU_Armageddon

    AU_Armageddon Cenobyte

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Hades
    Heh, looks like a lot of people having difficulties with this one. I didn't have a specific strategy planned in advance, except only to move south and find a more productive starting position. I was worried to begin after I sent my settler south and ran into jungle. I parked just south of the southern hills next to the lake. The position pretty much sucked except that there were decent scattering of forests and the gems would be good once I could cut down the jungle. Certainly wasn't a place for GP and would take too long to be a science city (compared to if I had parked at original spot). The entire territory looked crappy to me, all in all. Hence my strategy was decided, capitalise on the forests and conquer my neighbours for decent cities, and I needed iron-working asap.

    I explored heavily waiting for bronze working to determine my fate. Neither copper deposit that appeared were in a great spot but my path was set now so I dropped my second city smack in the middle of the jungle for a 1 health city. I chopped a second worker out first though, then the settler, then stonehenge so it could expand to access the copper. Then it was chopping axe-men all the way.

    I didn't find a single village the entire game so no free techs or anything so I had to detour and get animal husbandry after bronze, but then it was iron-working.

    I went straight for Isabella who had founded buddhism and judaism so I could take her founding religions. She was no match for axe-men and I took Barcelona in 980BC, getting a great prophet on the same turn to found the jewish holy city.



    100 years later I had a chain gang going with 9 veteran axemen in the line as it entered Spain, Isabella eliminated a short time later.





    From this point I was on a roll and just kept taking cities. First crippling Saladin in the south-east, then Montezuma in the south-west, then extra effort to go weaken Mali on the opposite side of the world who was pushing too far ahead of me in science (slight panic when he got liberalism and I was still messing about in late classical). Slowed down for a bit to get my techs back up and as soon as I got knights I pumped out hordes, all but wiping out Saladin and Monty. Upgraded them all to cavalry and eliminated Washington with a campaign of genocide instead inside a couple decades, followed by Mali.

    Only the Persian Empire remained a force, so I continued my apocalypse and raped every field and pillaged every woman for a Conquest Victory in 1758.
    Score 30026. About a 14 hour game (played straight through on day 1 lol, went to work on a one hour kip).

    Incidentally, I barely saw a barbarian. They didn't seem to come out till Isabella was already dead and any few that did appear were no match for veteran axemen anyway.
     
  7. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,122
    Location:
    MA
    I decided to go for a military victory in this game for a number of reasons. 1) Epic speed 2) No need for ocean travel (I suck at fighting overseas) and 3) I'm bored of tech games. On top of this I decided to go for a milked conquest victory. The reason for that is that I know I'm not skilled enough to get a fastest finish conquest or domination victory, but I think I had a decent chance at a high score. While I hated milking in civ4 I'm growing to like it in civ3. You don't have to go all the way to 2050AD so it's quite tolerable in comparison.

    My early goals:
    1) Expand slowly to keep my research pace up. If I run out of territory later on I can always capture some cities.
    2) Turn London into a GP factory (founded on the spot).
    3) Research Writing and get early academies built (hendrikszoon's strategy)
    4) Research mostly peacefully until Military Tradition then conquer the world with cavalry.

    Building and expansion:

    4000BC - Founded on the spot.
    3240BC - Worker completed
    2960BC - Farm on wheat completed
    2760BC - Warrior completed (more exploration/defense, let London grow to 2 since it has 2 powerful tiles to work - wheat, sheep)
    2640BC - Pasture on sheep completed
    2200BC - Settler completed, sent to gems site.
    2080BC - York founded 1 tile NW of the hills gems.
    1825BC - Settler completed. I built two quick settlers because I wanted to get my stone and gems cities going quickly.
    1775BC - Nottingham founded 1 tile west of stone. Normally I'd found on the stone but it would have been a useless city with all that desert. It will still be a crappy city but at least a little better.
    1750BC - Warrior completed. Without any military techs on my horizon warriors are my best defense against barbs (which I know will attack soon enough)
    1225BC - Library completed in London.
    1175BC - Quarry completed on the stone.
    920BC - Academy completed in London
    760BC - Pyramids completed in London
    680BC - Revolt to Representation and Slavery (forgot to when pyramids completed)
    500BC - London completes settler.
    420BC - Hastings founded in the jungle by the copper/rice/bananas/pig.
    380BC - Academy completed in York
    160BC - Cuman captured from the barbarians in the east by the rice/sheep/clams. No coast access but it was worth it to get both the rice and sheep in the city radius and to not have to build a settler.
    40BC - Asyrrian captured from barbarians just 3 tiles away from Nottingham (to NW). It sucked that it was so close but once again I thought saving a settler was worth it and it also picked up cow, a second wine and corn.
    290AD - Taoism founded in York
    350AD - Revolt to Caste System and Bureacracy
    470AD - Great Scientist merged in York
    630AD - Great Library is completed in London via Great Engineer

    Other notes:

    It took a lot longer to meet all the civs than it did in all my test games. None of the AI's liked Monte so I didn't do any trading with him at all. After learning Writing I signed open borders with every civ except for him. I declared war on Isabella in 1600BC to steal her worker. She killed my warrior right afterwards (I didn't see her warrior when I declared because it was on top of my warrior) but I did get the worker back to my cities safely. I never saw any of her units after that and made peace in 960BC. I did get -1 you declared war on our friend modifier with most civs for this. Surprisingly Isabella did not found Hinduism or Buddhism in this game so she was still friendly with the other civs. She did end up founding Judaism. Montezuma founded Buddhism so I'm sure that's why none of the civs liked him. Mansa Musa founded both Hinduism and Confucianism. Saladin and Cyrus converted to Taosim shortly after I discovered it, through natural spread. Connecting trade routes took a long long time in this game with no coastal connections and all the jungle surrounding us. That really hurt research to have no foreign trade routes for so long, not to mention the inability to trade for resources. In 570AD I traded for Mansa Musa's world map, which despite me being the first one to learn Paper, was pretty much the entire map. He must have been very diligent in his exploration. I mostly left the AI's in my research dust after my early alphabet trading was done.

    Barbarians:

    Barbarians were a pain, but not as bad as in my test games. I only had warriors for defense for a long time since I researched Writing and Masonry before Bronze Working or Archery. But I won quite a few fights vs archers with my warriors. Fortunately there were no early axemen sent at me or I would have been in deep trouble. Maybe it's because I didn't have Bronze Working yet? Anyway when I researched Bronze Working I found the bronze to be 3 tiles away from York and not accessible. So I pushed on to Iron Working and thankfully the iron was right next to London. After that I built some axes and swords and all was well.

    London's Great People generation:

    (1) 920BC - Scientist - Academy in London
    (2) 400BC - Scientist - Academy in York
    (3) 290AD - Scientist - Discover Philosophy for Taoism
    (4) 470AD - Scientist - Merged in York
    (5) 620AD - Engineer - Rushed Great Library in London
    (6) 770AD - Scientist - Saved for later golden age

    My research:

    3480BC - Agriculture (connect the wheat, leads to Writing)
    2840BC - Animal Husbandry (connect sheep, leads to Writing)
    2400BC - The Wheel (workers need something to do while I work on Writing)
    1750BC - Writing (libraries/academies)
    1375BC - Masonry (connect the stone)
    1050BC - Bronze Working (much later than I usually get it, forest chops and copper)
    720BC - Iron Working (Copper was outside my borders and I needed better units to beat the barbs. Also for jungle clearing with lots of jungle near us, including the jungle on the gems.)
    640BC - Pottery (For cottages and granaries, but not by London since London will be a GP factory the entire game.)
    340BC - Alphabet (Tech trading and leads to Literature for National Epic/Great Library)
    340BC - Hunting and Mysticism from Cyrus for Writing
    320BC - Meditation and Polytheism from Mansa Musa for Iron Working
    320BC - Horseback Riding from Mansa Musa for Alphabet
    320BC - Sailing (important to make London's lakes 3 food) and Archery from Washington for Alphabet
    280BC - Priesthood from Saladin for Polytheism
    140BC - Literature (National Epic/Great Library)
    100BC - Mathematics (leads to currency/other techs)
    100AD - Currency
    230AD - Metal Casting (Code of Laws was already known but I didn't have any trade value with Mansa Musa to get it. Metal Casting gets forges for +1 happiness with gems.
    230AD - Code of Laws from Mansa Musa for Metal Casting
    290AD - Philosphy via Great Scientist (Taoism)
    350AD - Civil Service (bureacracy)
    450AD - Music (For the Great Artist which I'll save for a golden age later in the game)
    450AD - Monotheism (+90g) from Saladin for Literature.
    510AD - Machinery
    570AD - Paper (needed maps and of course leads to education)
    630AD - Calendar (Happiness. The AI knew this already but wouldn't trade it until I was about 13 beakers short of learning it myself.)
    680AD - Feudalism (needed for Guilds)
    710AD - Construction (catapults)
    790AD - Guilds (knights)
    840AD - Theology (theocracy)

    Economic snapshots (b= beakers, i = income, e = expenses):

    2080BC - 11b, 0i, 2e (York founded)
    1775BC - 10b, 3i, 6e (Nottingham founded)
    1225BC - 19b, 6i, 7e (Library in London completed)
    920BC - 25b, 7i, 7e (Academy in London)
    660BC - 35b, 5i, 7e (Representation)
    380BC - 44b, 12i, 12e (Academy in York, gems connected and Hastings founded a few turns prior)
    20AD - 70b, 18i, 28e (Barbarian cities captured and resistance ended)
    100AD - 108b, 0i, 29e (Currency learned, lots of money saved due to city captures)
    360AD - 119b, 36i, 37e (Bureacracy/Caste System, bureacracy was rather weakened in this game since London was a gp factory)
    620AD - 149b, 54i, 50e (Great Library completed and trade networks with all civs except Mansa now)
    820AD - 231b, 56i, 58e (End of spoiler)

    Attached are pictures of my empire in 800AD, along with a picture of London and York's city screens.

    Coming up in the next spoiler - War
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Cronos

    Cronos Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Sydney
    Hi everyone, 1st post, 1st GOTM but would like to share my views of this GOTM.

    My strategy so far has been a little defensive, with so many reports of barbarians around and considering that it was 1st lakes experience, i just wanted to play it safe with the other countries and to make sure that i had enough ammunition to beat down the barbarian hordes. So much so that i have let open borders only to Isabella to date, with the diplomatic goal of getting her only onside as my ally.

    Being Philosophical i wanted to get oracle and stonehenge as early wonders to boost GPP production, but i missed out on oracle unfortunately by only 1 turn. So far only Moses has been born, which i turned into a super specialist to get extra production on what looks like a shield er hammer poor map. I have not founded a religion and dont really intend to in this game so i thought this was the best use for him.

    From a military sense i made sure to found York near the copper filled hills to the south of London, and founded Nottingham near to the stone to the sw, which also helped to close off Isabella. In skirmishes against the barbarians, one of my outlying warriors survived by only 0.1 health. Such acts of indominatble bravery are not overlooked in my empire and so the warrior was renamed Druss.

    True to form our intrepid hero was upgraded to an axeman shortly after and he successfully lead the assault on the barbarian city of Kazak to the west of London, earning a promotion to woodsman 1.

    By 1 AD my fledging empire (looking a lot like Grogs) is as follows:
    - 4 cities, 15 pop with some infrastructure in place
    - im no 1 for Gold @ 18m gold, no 4 for area but no 2 for population
    - London is the no. 2 city in the world and is pumping out 16GPP per turn
    - I have 7 axemen and a few warriors wandering around my empire, lead by Druss
    - Relations cautious with all
    - score 329 and cruising in 4th position.

    Going Forward: There have been no wars to date, but my view is to change this very shortly. My military has started to head south, this land aint big enough for all these civilizations i dont think, so my plan in the next 1000 years is to beat down on Saladin and his Arabs. I have not thought about an ultimate victory condition yet, but i think it will either be space race or domination at this stage.

    Points to note: i havent chopped any of the jungle to date, i was trying to lay off but to get hanging gardens and notre dame to provide a boost to the size of my empire
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,122
    Location:
    MA
    The spoiler cutoff is definitely unclear. I would suggest making the cutoff when you learn Gunpowder or maybe Guilds. I'm sure there are plenty of people who won the game before coal but I don't think they should post their end results in the first spoiler thread.
     
  10. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,122
    Location:
    MA
    My 1AD stats:

    428 score
    6 cities, 4 settled, 2 captured
    21 total population

    Buildings:
    Pyramids
    2 Academies
    2 Libraries
    2 Barracks
    2 Granaries
    1 Lighthouse

    Units:
    9 warriors built, 12 warriors killed, 5 lost
    4 axemen built
    1 swordsman built
    3 workers built, 1 worker captured

    Techs:
    Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Writing, Masonry, Bronze Working, Iron Working, Pottery, Alphabet, Hunting, Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism, Horseback Riding, Sailing, Archery, Priesthood, Literature, Mathematics

    Economy:
    70 beakers, 17 income, 23 expenses

    Demographics screen:

     
  11. Shader

    Shader Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    14
    I love Elizabeth, and so I took advantage of her traits, which really don't provide much early-game use. That may be why some of you had problems in the beginning.

    The beginning to this one is very difficult and I lost a settler to a barbarian, and thought I was in trouble. Fortunately, the barbarians started a couple nice cities, and I easily took them over.

    I only had to fight one early war, and it was a pretty lame attempt at war from Isabella to the South. I sucked up to everyone and pumped out a ton of archers, axemen and swordsmen.

    Usually when I play games, I don't build as much of an early army as I prefer to build my cities...but being that this is my first GOTM, I was paranoid about getting captured and not being able to go back and restart from a point 5-10 turns earlier.

    I had so much success with building an insane defense and NOT attacking, that I think I'll incorporate it into the way I play from now on.

    I'm currently in the 1800's and dominating, but I'll explain more in the next spoiler.
     
  12. snizzake

    snizzake Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    29
    Hey Shillen what kind of GPP pt were you getting in London during the middle/renassance days?
     
  13. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    @Shillen
    For me the problem with technological cutoffs and not dates is that if the person doesn't research that tech....their deadline could be open
    (i.e. I havn't reasearched gunpowder because crossbows are good enough for now and cheaper than muskets...So theoretically if things go well it would be possible for someone to win before gunpowder even :eek: )

    But then again it is the difficult to determine cutoffs that is why (IMO) :blush: the GOTM staff left it so vague.
     
  14. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    2,122
    Location:
    MA
  15. Grogs

    Grogs King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    929
    Well, they're on a learning curve too. With Continents, you've got an easy to define cutoff (i.e., met an off-continent civ,) but there's just nothing like that here. From what I recall, in the Civ3 GOTM's on a pangea-type map, the requirements for the first spoiler were something like: must have met all civs and must be researching a Middle Ages tech. With the flexible tech tree in Civ4, that doesn't work so well. You could go quite deep in the tech tree before revealing iron. Even in Civ3 though, it wasn't uncommon for people to post their winning result in the first spoiler, if they won with ancient age units.
     
  16. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    Part 3: Izzy Captured now what? 510 A.D.
    Well it was ready and I couldn't resist posting it....Hope I am not going to far...but it is only 9 turns further. :cool:

    For the begging please reference
    Part 1
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...5&postcount=15

    1 AD QSC
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3539418&postcount=24

    Part 2
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...7&postcount=19


    Oh I forgot in Part 2 another reason for war (with Izzy) is I wanted her worker close to my border :)

    Well Not too many turns have passed from Part 2... (9 turns)

    But the number one thing to notice in the demographic info screen my militray went from 5th to 3rd :eek:
    This is very important.

    Although I had originally figured I would go Music, for a culture bomb as you can see my science is down to 50% and I am still at -10/turn :sad: so I decided for Currency.

    Better choices I could have made in hindsight:
    1.have more workers at this point...It took way to long to hook up Izzy's cities
    2.Go to war sooner:
    As seen in one of the screenies
    Montezuma razed Madrid :mad: I hate razed cities

    So at this point I have now gained 3 cities
    Cordoba: which will block Washington
    Barcelona: the Jewish holy City (with shrine thanks izzy) :king:
    Santiago: My eastern border with Saladin

    Other changes since part 2:
    Score: 891
    New techs: Calendar, Currency in 5 (gee I only had 9 turns :()
    I traded for calendar from Mansa musa for metal casting I think :confused:

    Notables: London has either just completed or will in the next turn the colossus (hence being ok wiht trading Metal to Mansa)
    London is working on GL, then will build National Wonder
    York is building heroic epic and then will be a unit pump.


    So the question is Who next? Montezuma or Saladin.

    As per my assumption in Part 2 (and as was while playing in game) I became good friends with Saladin
    Since Montezuma also declared war on Mansa Musa at some point during my War with Izzy..or maybe it was before, he was weak and ready to see the light of the English
    Minus: time was becomming more critical because I still didn't have cats :(
    Plus: promoted units. (and luck was on my side hs cities wern't on hills :crazyeye: )

    Goals in the meantime: (untill the next war)
    Fill that huge void in the south before Saladin gets any good ideas about taking more land.
    please see pic New Territory
    Other Benefits: less barbs appear = less units for defence

    London is only ever defended by one warrior (this is the lowest difficulty I would do that on) and in future posts you will see how this did turn out BAD lol (smily removed)

    Finally: My favorite unit of the game is my warrior seen in pic your Next Mr. Green. I swear him fortified on forest hills must have won 10+ battles (at this point he has won 5 all in defence)
    This is my original warrior : ) (smily removed)

    Part 4: Soon to come: The Green Goo Aftermath

    Edit Smilies gotta come out only 10 images allowed
     
  17. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,074
    Yes - its very difficult to get a sensible cut-off - a specific tech could be bee-lined to; ditto for an age. I'm trying not to be too prescriptive. Dates could be a good cut-off. 1 AD is probably a bit early - 500 AD?
     
  18. Sound+Vision

    Sound+Vision Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Alright, well, for starters:
    --This is my first game on Prince.
    --This is my first GOTM of any Civ game.
    --This is my first game on lakes.
    --I decided this would be a good opportunity for me to try to break my addiction to religion and wonders and see what I can do with "just the basics". As such I never actively tried to found a state religion.

    I'm going to do this 2 ways: first I'm just gonna copy-paste my live, (mostly) unedited notes I wrote up as I was playing (it's a bit long, but bear with me here). Then I'll give my opinion, hindsight, etc. Since the cutoff is rather vague, I'll post everything from my first session (going until about 1300AD). Hopefully this wil allow people to give advice based on the facts, and not my analysis of the facts :)
    More likely people will look at the size of this post and say "It's not worth reading something this long if it's not from Sirian" and then move along :lol:

    -----

    4000BC: The start of History.

    A few thoughts on our starting location:
    --Looking at it in the real game makes it *much* easier to see exactly what we have around us (compared with the preview screenshot).
    --Ice up North makes it pretty clear which way we'll be expanding in the early game.
    --Assuming that we leave the forests, irrigate the plains, mine the hills, and gather the resources, building our city at our present location would grant a food surplus of +3 (sheep w/ pasture) + 2 (wheat w/ irrigation) +3 (3 fresh water lakes w/ lighthouse), -3 (plains hill and plains forest) = +5. Good enough to build in place, but not great. Depending on how our immediate surroundings turn out, we'll either go for the GPP (great people pump) or make London into a "jack-of-all-trades" site, as a good backbone for our empire.

    Begin production with Warrior, research agriculture.

    A few turns later, we discover we have stone not too far away SW. Also to the south are many hill/plains with a convenient river connection to our capital. Will expand down that direction for our first town.

    3640: Warrior built. Begin a second warrior. Testing from some other players reported a good amount of Barbarian activity early on on this type of map, so we'll have to keep that in mind.

    3520: Buddhism founded IFL.

    3480: Discover Agriculture. Begin research Animal Husbandry.

    3320: Encounter Saladin. Apparently he was not the one to found Buddhism.

    3280: Warrior completes. Begin Worker.

    2760: Discover Animal Husbandry. Begin Wheel.

    2680: Complete Worker. I'd like for London to be at least size 3 before I make my 1st settler, so I start on a barracks.

    2640: Meet Montezuma (ugh), the founder of Buddhism (double ugh).

    2600: Meet Washington. I find myself with a warrior right next to one of his helpless workers and for a moment I wonder if it would be a good idea to "borrow" him.

    2560: I decide that any opportunity to hurt the AI on Prince is one that I should grab. War is declared, the worker is mine!

    2480: Encounter Persia. Apparently he was friends with America. Dang.

    2440: Encounter Mansa Musa. Also the worker I "liberated" from USA dies to animals. Oh well.

    2360: Discover Wheel. Begin researching Hunting, since it would be nice to have Archers sooner rather than later.

    2320: Hinduism founded IDL (Cyrus would convert to it next turn). Encounter Isabella. My woodsman 2 warrior defending in a forest adjacent to Washington kills an American archer.

    2280: Begin Settler in London. Barracks postponed.

    2080: Discover Hunting. Begin Archery.

    1975: I am Elizabeth the Hopeless in the most advanced nations awards. One of my warrior-scouts dies to wild animals. Peace with America (they've suffered enough for now).

    1850: Settler built. Begin Warrior.

    1825: Archery. Begin Sailing (for lighthouses and so that London can connect to the river through the lake).

    1800: Warrior completes. Begin Scout.

    1775: York founded, instantly connects to London. I guess I don't need sailing for that after all -_- Switch to Bronze Working.

    1300: Discover Bronze Working. Begin Iron Working.

    1250: Complete second Worker. Begin chopping faraway trees (the ones that I'll never make cities near anyway.

    920 BC: Nottingham founded. Snags Stone, Pigs, Copper and Rice.

    840 BC: Discover Iron Working... and there's one right next to London!!! Enter Classical Age. Begin Mysticism (finally!)

    740 BC: Discover Mysticism. Begin Masonry.

    700BS: Barbarians start showing up around London and Nottingham. Soon I'll take over that barb city and add it to my fledgling empire.

    660BC: Stonehenge and Oracle both built IFL. So what, who cares...

    640BC: Judaism founded in Djenne.

    600BC: Discover Masonry, begin Sailing.

    540BC: The barbarians are really coming on strong now. Is this what it's like in all Prince games?

    420 BC: Sailing discovered. Begin pottery.

    360BC: Hastings founded. Olmec captured from barbarians.

    320 BC: Boston has been captured by the Barbaian State :confused:

    280BC: Pottery discovered. Begin Writing.

    220BC: Parthenon built IFL. I see a barb axeman near Nottingham... :EEK!:

    80BC: Discover Writing, begin Mathematics.

    1AD: In keeping with the holiday spirit, the first great prophet is born IDL. Of course, it happened to be Moses... :rotfl:
    Barbarians are still going strong, but haven't succeeded in killing anything except one of my workers. Meanwhile, I've decided that I really do love that dirty water, and I should go "rescue" Boston from the clutches of the Barbarian State. :D It will be a good advance base from which to attack America in the future.

    40AD: Mansa Musa completes the temple of Solomon. I guess Mali must be the lost tribe of Israel...
    Oh, and Bahston is liberated from the Bahbarian State :) It shouldn't be too hahd to hold ahnto as long as I make plenty of Culchuh :D

    180AD: Well, I built the Great Lighthouse... but the bahbarians bastahds have retaken Bahston... We'll have to do something about that... (I promise I'll stop doing that now)

    240AD: Pyramids built IFL.

    290AD: discover Math, begin Meditation (!)

    300AD: Christianity founded IFL !!!! Isabella would convert next turn. Meanwhile I'm still waiting on the someone to knock on my door and try to rope me in...

    360AD: Discover Meditation, begin Alphabet.

    Meanwhile, my quest to recover Bahston is side-tracked by the picturesque seaside resort of Tartar -- captured one turn before Saladin's chariots would have gotten it. Also, York finishes a library -- my first culture improvement of the game!

    420AD: Confucianism founded IFL

    540AD: Boston is finally liberated... by the Persian Empire... Go figure. First Barbarian Swordsman appears near London.

    560AD: Harkuf, my first Great Merchant, is born in London. I use him to get Currency.

    580AD: Washington ends our Open Borders. And he hates my guts. And I have 3 level 2/3 Swordsmen right outside Atlanta...

    590AD: Atlanta captured from the Americans! But Hastings is captured by the Barbarians :(

    620AD: Alphabet discovered. Begin Calendar.
    Despite all my troubles, I have 2 huge advantages on the AI: I'm the only person to know Alphabet or Currency. I decide to go for broke and trade them for whatever I can get. At the end of the day, I've received Polytheism, Calendar, and a lot of money. Nothing extremely useful, but anything to pull even in tech will help at this point. I also made sure not to trade with the overall tech leader, so things should come out well for me. Begin research on Metal Casting.

    660AD: Hanging Gardens built in London. With a little luck some Great Engineers will catch me up with the rest of the world.

    700AD: Taoism founded IFL.

    720AD: Peace with Washington (they gave me 180 gold). Capture another decent barbarian town. If there's one positive thing to be said about the barbarians in this game, it's that they left me some good towns to capture.

    730: Barbarians capture Tartar. Memo to myself: one archer is *not* enough.

    770AD: Tartar liberated (one turn before the Americans got to it!).

    990AD: Christianity spreads to Ainu (my ****** ex-barbarian town), and I FINALLY get to convert to a state religion.

    1005AD: Discover Monarchy. Begin Civil Service (my 2nd Great Merchant researches most of it for me). Revolt to Heredetary rule and Slavery.

    1025AD: Discover Civil Service, enter Medieval Age, begin Monotheism (for Organized Religion)

    1055AD: Complete the Colossus in London. Looks like London is becoming my Great People Center whether I like it or not.

    1065AD: discover monotheism, begin machinery. Revolt to Organized Religion and Beuraucracy. More Tech trades.

    1100AD: Mansa Musa has completed the Sistin Chapel. The three attached screenshots should give you a good idea of what my empire looked like at the time. (Just to check if anyone is reading this, the first person to explain how I can get my screens "in" my post instead of attached gets... a prize.)

    As you can see, I've filled in most of "my territory", and as soon as I liberate Hastings (yes it's taken me this long!) the barbarian threat should be essentially over, and I can start going to war with my neighbours. I'm the same religion as Isabella and she's shaping up to be my closest ally in this game, so I'll probably try to go to war with someone close to her and get her involved in the fighting as well. I don't think I'll take on the challenge of attacking Mansa Musa just yet though...

    1115AD: Hastings liberated from its 5-century-long occupation by the barbarian hordes. This effectively ends the barbarian threat once and for all. On to more interesting matters :)

    1140AD: Chichen Itza completed IDL... 2 turns before me... Well, at least I'll be rich!

    1145AD: Great Library completed IDL

    1180AD: Great Merchant --> Paper

    1185: Discover Machinery, begin Guilds.

    1250AD: Isabella has completed Notre Dame. More tech trades. Readying an army to invade Washington. 4th place in score! (And moving up quite fast I might add!)

    1290AD: Discover Paper, research Gunpowder.

    1300AD: I've made up my mind... it's time to go to war with Washington, perhaps just for a short period to capture the two rotten cities he stuck in the middle of our land. But, as it's now 4am and I've been playing non-stop for the past 4 hours, I think I'll leave the war for tomorrow.

    END SESSION ONE.

    -----

    My thoughts: Well, there certainly were a lot of barbarians, but I really tried to look at that as more of an opportunity than a hindrance. I tried to go capture their towns whenever possible (as some others have mentioned, they did found a few towns in some really great spots), and they did force me to keep a decent defensive force, which is probably why no one ever declared war on me in the early game. But unfortunately one of my initial "pseudo-restrictions" (that I was going to try to avoid relying on religion), ended up biting me in the ass, as it wasn't until about 1000AD that anybody bothered to spread any of the lovin' over to my corner of the world!! Needless to say, that blew. I also found myself consistantly under-tech compared with the AI. Part of this is probably due to the fact that I built almost no cottages, but then I didn't really build much of anything that lasted longer than a few turns (b/c of barbs), and I felt like I really needed my cities to grow big and give me many shields so that I could adequately fight off the barbarians. This wound up haunting me through the rest of the game (being behind in tech), so the whole cottage this is clearly something I will have to improve on for my next game.

    Looking back on my early decision to capture Washington's worker: I really think it was a good short-term move, because later on in the game Washington really was never able to build up to any sort of critical mass, always lagging behind in pretty much anything, and I like to think it was in part because of that early war. Long-term, I'm not so sure, because I realized later on that nobody really liked me... and I couldn't reall tell why. Maybe it was because of that? Certainly when I first met people, a lot of them complained "-1: You declared war on our friend!" but still...

    One final thing: I don't think I ever saw the AI's declare war on each other at all, until at one point in the medieval or renaissance they all decided to pile up on Montezuma and leave him with just 2 cities left. Is this normal? Did the AI's just decide that it wasn't worth going to war with all the barbs around? Then later in the game, they started declaring war... on me!!! I swear I had more people declare war on me than everyone else in my game combined! Is it always like this on prince?

    In short, I think I need to play more on prince, since noble is clearly too easy, but I still ahve a lot to learn from this level AI.

    To anyone still reading this post: You, my friend, are a Great American Hero.
    :rotfl:
     

    Attached Files:

  19. larsonwd

    larsonwd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Game: C-IV GOTM 02
    Date submitted: 2006-01-03
    Reference number: 8897
    Your name: larsonwd
    Your email: larsonwd@gmail.com
    Software Version: C4 1.52 for Windows
    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Domination Victory for England
    Game date: 1834 AD
    Base score: 5862
    Final score: 40992

    I started by founding my city on the default spot. My first city was southeast on the river, my second was west on the square south of the mountan with the river coming out of it. I then expanded east until I hit the lake that separates you from Mansa Musa and Cyrus. My strategy was to hang tight until I had Redcoats, then draft my way to victory, and it pretty much worked. Isabella declared war, and I took her out, followed by saladin, washington, montezuma, and most of cyrus for the win.

    In terms of early game, my first warrior stole washingtons worker, and hunkered down for the next 20 or so turns, fortified in a forest. That severely weakend him and he wasn't a factor the rest of the game. It seems like that was key, as washington gave most people their problems. Barbarians were also a pain early on, with some dramatic city defenses, logistics, and a heavy dose of slavery.

    In terms of techs, I chop rushed like crazy, chopping everything inside and outside my borders. I then went for cash techs, and got christianity off of my stonehenge-prophet. After that I pretty much b-lined for Redcoats and nationalism, trading my advanced techs for the ones i missed along the way.

    Anyway, that's my story. Elizabeth is one of 3 civs I play most often, along with Gandhi and Tokugawa, so this GOTM fit with my playing style pretty well.
     
  20. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    Sounds perfect which means I went over by 1 turn :cry: oh well

    Based on my gameplay at this point I had finished my first war (however it only lasted 9 turns)

    So technically speaking I was done peaceful expansion at 420 A.D.

    So anything in around there works for me.

    The reason I was curious for all other posters information is because I was detailing my earlier strategies.

    Some of the posts here go right to thier victory condition, and thus they will have nothing to post in the second spoiler or the final results spoiler.

    Ultimately it is up to the Modderators as for my two cents on the spoilers
    If there are three spoliers:

    Spoiler #1 QSC (As per DaveMcW)
    -Eligibility to read & post Criteria meet Ainwood's original spefications (i.e. need iron)
    -Final Cut off date 1 AD.

    Spoiler #2 Midgame
    -Eligibility to read & post Criteria meet Ainwood's original spefications (i.e. need to have met all other civs, discovered another continent etc.)
    -Final Cut off date 1000 AD.
    (i have tried really hard numerous times and on anything >=noble (standard map...normal GOTM ish settings and winning by this date if Tough)

    Spoiler #3 Final Results
    -Eligibility to read post Criteria have submitted a Final save game
    -Final Cut Nada :crazyeye:


    In the event of only two spoilers

    Spoiler #1-Eligibility to read & post Criteria meet Ainwood's original spefications (i.e. need iron)
    -Final Cut off date 500 AD.

    Spoiler #2 Final Results
    edit oops the horros of Ctrl C, Ctrl V changed #3 to #2
    -Eligibility to read post Criteria have submitted a Final save game
    -Final Cut Nada :crazyeye:

    Now that being said who knows if this would actually work.

    Finally I have no idea if it would be harder or easier for other players and the mods because I see many posts of people wanting the spoilers sooner.
    Personally thier timming is great (and they were with Civ3GOTM ad COTM even though I never submitted :blush: )

    However would it be possible the day the game is released to post all three/two spoilers be created with the thread locked but with the Original post by Ainwood stating the conditions which must be met, and the date that the thread will open?

    This would allow me to play to the point of the end of spoiler one. Then I could stop (haha yeah right addictions are good :( ) and wait until the opening date post, wait a couple days read other results then continue to point B adjusting my game if need be.

    As of right now I just maniac (seeing as it is 4 a.m. :eek: ) to make sure I am at a far enough point to read the spoilers.

    In any case sorry for the longwinded post
    As for the next installment of my progress Part 4: The green goo Aftermath it will have to wait until the next spoiler
     

Share This Page